The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[sunshine_eggo]

Point #1 is incorrect. Viruses mutate when coming into contact with the vaccinated, not unvaccinated.

This statement just established that you have no grasp of the subject. Occasionally, you post something noteworthy that makes me dig a little deeper to question my understanding, but now I unfortunately must dismiss you completely.

I perceive your reality and "facts" as being excessively "fluid."

 

[Hedges]

Point #1 is incorrect. Viruses mutate when coming into contact with the vaccinated, not unvaccinated.

The "Delta" variant, which has been such a big deal, is really the "India" variant.
It developed in the absence of vaccines.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Point #1 is incorrect. Viruses mutate when coming into contact with the vaccinated, not unvaccinated.

Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

 

[svetz]

Point #1 is incorrect. Viruses mutate when coming into contact with the vaccinated, not unvaccinated.

Source?
Since it doesn't incubate in them I don't see how it could or even if it did how it would spread.
If you mean the breakthrough cases... well... if everyone had gotten vaccinated they probably wouldn't have gotten infected in the first place.
It just goes to prove how the vaccinated should be leary of the unvacinated.

Point #2 may have been correct months ago.

Nope... still tons of money being spent in hospitals, identifying new variants, seeing if they're a risk, television commercials telling people to get vaccinated, sending people money, etc. Don't see that stopping until the pandemic ends.

Florida man says wife being treated for pneumonia in hospital hallway due to COVID-19 overcrowding ref​

I think Time2roll said it was 60% unvaxed to 40% vaxed (post 881). It's probably like the click-bait title to the OP, the reason it's correct is they picked a location where the population was highly vaccinated. The majority in the hospital here are unvaccinated. The image is a link to the reference.

The vaccines aren't lasting and you can't expect people to keep taking boosters.

They last a few years, long enough for it to die out if everyone was vaccinated (ref).

 

[BMcL]

This statement just established that you have no grasp of the subject. Occasionally, you post something noteworthy that makes me dig a little deeper to question my understanding, but now I unfortunately must dismiss you completely.

I perceive your reality and "facts" as being excessively "fluid."

It seems this is up for debate among scientists, so nobody really knows what causes a virus to mutate ? No need to try to insult me; I can read a medical article like the rest of you.
Just pointing out you are wrong if you think it's "known" that the unvaxed cause mutations.
You seem all too eager to blame everything, all of your covid problems, on people reluctant to get vaxed.
You'd better start thinking about what these mRNA boosters will do to you over the long haul ?

The Unvaccinated Are Not Fueling COVID Variants

The assumption that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is falseJust as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to sp…

undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com

 

[BMcL]

They last a few years, long enough for it to die out if everyone was vaccinated (ref).

So why are highly vaccinated countries having spikes in cases ?
There is still a lot of uncertainty out there for everyone to be claiming to know that vaccines will solve this.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

It seems this is up for debate among scientists, so nobody really knows what causes a virus to mutate ? No need to try to insult me; I can read a medical article like the rest of you.
Just pointing out you are wrong if you think it's "known" that the unvaxed cause mutations.
You seem all too eager to blame everything, all of your covid problems, on people reluctant to get vaxed.
You'd better start thinking about what these mRNA boosters will do to you over the long haul.

The Unvaccinated Are Not Fueling COVID Variants

The assumption that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is falseJust as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to sp…

undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com

Please, this is so basic.... Everytime the virus replicates there is a chance of a copying error, the more this happens the more likely that a beneficial error will occur. This is why people say the vaccinated help minimize the chance, as it allows most people to fight off the virus more quickly and reduce the number of replications.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

So why are highly vaccinated countries having spikes in cases ?
There is still a lot of uncertainty out there for everyone to be claiming to know that vaccines will solve this.

Vaccines reduce odds of contracting virus, this is not debated at this point, but if you get exposed over and over again your odds of contracting whether you have natural immunity or vaccinated, will increase.

 

[Cdkipp]

Not a big deal but this is the part I worry about. I have relatives in Idaho where medical care has been rationed due to lack of facilities and personnel. Getting general medical care could prove difficult for most any condition or accident.

Even when not limited I have no doubt it is compromised.

 

[Cdkipp]

The "Delta" variant, which has been such a big deal, is really the "India" variant.
It developed in the absence of vaccines.

Or perhaps when it came into contact with Ivermectin? LOL/////// See gthe logical circles BMcl when you just make things up,

 

[time2roll]

It seems this is up for debate among scientists, so nobody really knows what causes a virus to mutate ? No need to try to insult me; I can read a medical article like the rest of you.
Just pointing out you are wrong if you think it's "known" that the unvaxed cause mutations.
You seem all too eager to blame everything, all of your covid problems, on people reluctant to get vaxed.
You'd better start thinking about what these mRNA boosters will do to you over the long haul ?

The Unvaccinated Are Not Fueling COVID Variants

The assumption that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is falseJust as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to sp…

undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com

I mostly agree. Every time a virus duplicates there is a chance of error or change. This can happen in either the vaccinated or unvaccinated.

However in the similar context of the hospitals being primarily filled with the unvaccinated and generally suffering from more severe disease... seems logical that the unvaccinated are subject to more virus duplications and chance of a mutation.

Just as covid is often described as the pandemic of the unvaccinated, the mutations will be associated with the unvaccinated. Not an absolute wall but still the vast majority of the chance of mutation will be with the unvaccinated.

If by some miracle a large group was fully vaccinated, most of the hospitalizations and mutations would be gone.

 

[Cdkipp]

Nearly One Third Of Healthcare Workers In U.S. Hospitals Are Still Not Vaccinated Against Covid-19, CDC Study Finds, As Vaccine Mandate Looms

"Nearly one third" = 30% according to the article. If this is true, the 70% generally thinks the 30% are stupid uneducated ignoramuses who have no regard for others' lives. The 30% generally think the 70% have been brainwashed into believing dishonest studies and political propaganda aided by mass censorship in social media and mainstream press, nevertheless they have the right to believe what they want and make their risky choice. Seems to me the country is screwed no matter which side is right, with at least 30% of hospital staff going the wrong direction.

The actual study is not up yet. I checked but why would tigerwillow. In past studies, they use a really broad definition of healthcare worker which includes, lab workers, custodial workers, food delivery and preparation staff, and administrative and desk staff. In previous studies on this issue, the percentage vaccinated correlates directly with the medical education level and clinician level of the healthcare worker. For instance, as the article states, 97% of physicians are vaccinated. This is another example of media leaping for a headline and presenting misrepresenting actual results.

 

[time2roll]

Most people are vaccinated, so why are they still fearful of the unvaccinated ? It's been proven the vaccinated carry covid as well as the unvaccinated.
Are people being brainwashed into fearing unvaccinated people ? I think so. The commercials on radio and tv keep pounding the message that you MUST be vaccinated.
BTW, I am vaxed with the J&J vaccine. You won't see me put any MRNA vaccine in my body. I will not be taking any boosters. I hope the long term effects are insignificant, but I trust ivermectin over any vaccine for covid. It's already helped me get over the flu quickly.

Because if infected, the unvaccinated will tend to carry a higher virus load and tend to be more outgoing and proud to be unvaccinated. Often enough are a bit obnoxious about the whole situation. More often it is the unvaccinated yelling and confronting others about the hoax, mandates, masks, freedom, religious right, etc. The vaccinated just want to get on with the day and not end up on the news. Don't need the mayhem or exposure. Not so much fear as much as don't want to be part of a confrontation.

 

[grizzzman]

You live in the world of assumptions........

 

[Cdkipp]

BMcl and Bob keep telling us that pharma companies would block a large scale randomized trial of a generic (despite the fact they are ongoing for ivermectin, prozac, budesonide) however look what was just published today a HUGE study on aspirin tested due to anti-inflammatory properties. Short version. No impact. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01825-0/fulltext#seccestitle10

 

[Johnson]

It is clear that a large percentage of the population will refuse to get vaccinated and it is largely irrelevant if they are stupid, or those who did get vaccinated brainwashed. If you are on this forum, which is quite technical and experimental, I doubt either one is true. Even if either or both were true, I have enough experience with flat earthers, climate change deniers and religious extremists, etc. to know that people are not likely to change their minds. Now this virus is going to stay, mutate and there will be yearly booster shot, just like we do with the flu for those of us who do want to take the shot.

Instead of arguing, we need to think about is this. While there is no magic pill yet to cure those who have contracted the virus, are we going to deny health insurance or hospital treatment to those who chose not to get vaccinated but contracted covid, are we (as a society) going to increase the number of hospital beds, or a combination of both. And how are we going to pay for all of that? Even though I am fully vaccinated and could afford it even if it wasn't free, I clearly benefit from the fast majority of others taking vaccines as well.

 

[Cdkipp]

It is clear that a large percentage of the population will refuse to get vaccinated and it is largely irrelevant if they are stupid, or those who did get vaccinated brainwashed. If you are on this forum, which is quite technical and experimental, I doubt either one is true. Even if either or both were true, I have enough experience with flat earthers, climate change deniers and religious extremists, etc. to know that people are not likely to change their minds. Now this virus is going to stay, mutate and there will be yearly booster shot, just like we do with the flu for those of us who do want to take the shot.

Instead of arguing, we need to think about is this. While there is no magic pill yet to cure those who have contracted the virus, are we going to deny health insurance or hospital treatment to those who chose not to get vaccinated but contracted covid, are we (as a society) going to increase the number of hospital beds, or a combination of both. And how are we going to pay for all of that? Even though I am fully vaccinated and could afford it even if it wasn't free, I clearly benefit from the fast majority of others taking vaccines as well.

I don't know. It is a very good question. I would expect life insurance companies to start asking the question. Not getting vaccinated may be analogous to health behavior like smoking. The thing is that those that care about their health already subsidize through taxes and/or insurance premiums those with poor diets and lack of exercise. I would prefer a system that does not penalize but does provide incentives for all types of healthy behavior.

 

[BMcL]

Because if infected, the unvaccinated will tend to carry a higher virus load and tend to be more outgoing and proud to be unvaccinated. Often enough are a bit obnoxious about the whole situation. More often it is the unvaccinated yelling and confronting others about the hoax, mandates, masks, freedom, religious right, etc. The vaccinated just want to get on with the day and not end up on the news. Don't need the mayhem or exposure. Not so much fear as much as don't want to be part of a confrontation.

What I see is a group (unvaccinated) being picked on because the other vaccinated group are frustrated because :
1) they felt like they were forced to be vaxed and want others to do the same
2) they see the statistics showing the vaccines aren't lasting. 6 months later get a booster ? Is this forever ?

I waited a long time and only got vaxed when forced to. I talk to people about ivermectin, but it's always a friendly conversation.
I don't see this tension between vaxed and unvaxed except online.

 

[BMcL]

I would expect life insurance companies to start asking the question. Not getting vaccinated may be analogous to health behavior like smoking. The thing is that those that care about their health already subsidize through taxes and/or insurance premiums those with poor diets and lack of exercise. I would prefer a system that does not penalize but does provide incentives for all types of healthy behavior.

You think it will be healthier to take these boosters ? Good luck with that. And I mean that; I probably have nephews, nieces and my son may follow that course.
I see it as very risky, especially since Covid is low risk to healthy people.

 

[BMcL]

I clearly benefit from the fast majority of others taking vaccines as well.

I'm not sure this is a fact. We do know covid cases are milder in vaccinated people.
I also know if you treat covid early, it not a problem (unless you are high-risk).
So to me it's a risk just taking these boosters every 6 months. We don't have a clue what we are doing long-term.