The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[Bob B]

Do you, loved ones, or family take yearly flu shots? Same difference, maybe it’s the speed that this new Covid reality washed over the earth. i just got my booster and flu shot, went on with my day no drama. Talking about immunosuppressed people like they are just now dealing with medical issues and choices like this is odd.

The only thing that's odd to me is the difference in how those in power are dealing with it. I don't see them enlisting Osha and employers to try to get people fired if they don't get the flu shot.
The flu shot has always been a personal choice .... and the unvaccinated aren't vilified or fired in order to get them to conform.

If the vaccine plus the booster keep a vaccinated person at a high level of immunity ..... why would there be a need to disrespect an unvaccinated person who may have a very good reason for not getting vaccinated?

 

[Cdkipp]

The only thing that's odd to me is the difference in how those in power are dealing with it. I don't see them enlisting Osha and employers to try to get people fired if they don't get the flu shot.
The flu shot has always been a personal choice .... and the unvaccinated aren't vilified or fired in order to get them to conform.

Wow. Wonder why? I can't think of any difference between the flu and Covid. And, as a healthcare worker, I could not be on the floor without all vaccines on board.

 

[Cdkipp]

Here are the updated numbers from spectrum health in West Michigan. New Covid rate is even with the all-time high. Tomorrow CDC, FDA advisory will probably approve boosters for all above 18. Get them. I have never heard my former colleagues talk like this. The stress on hospitals is extreme. Look at these numbers. Vaccines work but we need boosters if you are out seven months.

 

[grizzzman]

The only thing that's odd to me is the difference in how those in power are dealing with it. I don't see them enlisting Osha and employers to try to get people fired if they don't get the flu shot.
The flu shot has always been a personal choice .... and the unvaccinated aren't vilified or fired in order to get them to conform.

Do you think it may be because the USA owns partial rights for the Moderda Vaccine that the agreement was signed on 12/12/2019?

 

[Bob B]

Does anyone really care whether I got the flu vaccine or not?

 

[Bob B]

Do you think it may be because the USA owns partial rights for the Moderda Vaccine that the agreement was signed on 12/12/2019?

I really don't know ..... but I do think there is a high level of corruption in the agencies who are supposed to protect us from a pandemic ..... and should be working to prevent the next pandemic by trying to expose the origins of this one instead of trying to cover it up.

 

[grizzzman]

Does anyone really care whether I got the flu vaccine or not?

That is a personal choice.

 

[Cdkipp]

Do you think it may be because the USA owns partial rights for the Moderda Vaccine that the agreement was signed on 12/12/2019?

No I think it is because people are dying. Moderna and the US government are not exactly getting along. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/moderna-covid-vaccine-patent-dispute-national-institutes-health/

 

[BMcL]

You make horrendous overstatements about ivermectin. You attribute simple procedural approval mechanisms and delay to worldwide conspiracy. You never cite authorities---simply blogs, youtube etc. You reassert things continuously even when disproven. You have never dug into the merits in any discussion. Your ivermectin praise is tied to vax denying and objecting to common-sense approaches like masking. You do not care about the health of others and say so openly.

You are a nobody nurse calling world-famous ICU Doctors "quacks" and me a "killer."
It's quite easy to find ammo against ivermectin. Hundreds of millions of dollars in propaganda have been waged against it.
We will never agree but it's sad that there are people like you denigrating doctors that are fighting a corrupt system at their own expense.
Have a happy mask-wearing retirement.

 

[time2roll]

Here are the updated numbers from spectrum health in West Michigan. New Covid rate is even with the all-time high. Tomorrow CDC, FDA advisory will probably approve boosters for all above 18. Get them. I have never heard my former colleagues talk like this. The stress on hospitals is extreme. Look at these numbers. Vaccines work but we need boosters if you are out seven months.

What % of ER/ICU beds are taken with covid? What a terrible and unnecessary struggle.

I have found medical care has not been the same. Suddenly much is done by email, phone or video that was done in person. More difficult to get a referral to a specialist. The quality of care seems to be dropping. And not the fault of the overworked staff.

 

[Cdkipp]

You are a nobody nurse calling world-famous ICU Doctors "quacks" and me a "killer."
It's quite easy to find ammo against ivermectin. Hundreds of millions of dollars in propaganda have been waged against it.
We will never agree but it's sad that there are people like you denigrating doctors that are fighting a corrupt system at their own expense.
Have a happy mask-wearing retirement.

It is not me against those "not world famous" regular critical care doctors. I am simply laying out the research to date and trying to explain the situation. I do not have the expertise to go into a lab and test ivermectin or set up a randomized control trial. I do not claim too. I do have a rather extensive research background with training in how to analyze research and assess credibility and hierarchy. Putting something in bold letters does not make it true. Making a youtube and screaming does not make it true. I have opened the invitation to discuss actual research. I looked at one study earlier today and said it had credible support for some benefit of ivermectin. You keep talking about those doctors associated with FLCCC. I am talking about the opinion of professional associations and regulatory agencies worldwide. I am not asking anyone to take my word for anything but I am saying your absolute assertions are untrue. Ivermectin has a chance but things you have said on this board are unequivocally untrue. Just so you know, ICU doctors are not really the go-to guys on this issue. This is really the purview of infectious disease doctors, epidemiologists, immunologists, and especially biochemistry researchers. In the grand scheme of things a handful of hospital doctors mean nothing,

 

[Cdkipp]

What % of ER/ICU beds are taken with covid? What a terrible and unnecessary struggle.

I have found medical care has not been the same. Suddenly much is done by email, phone or video that was done in person. More difficult to get a referral to a specialist. The quality of care seems to be dropping. And not the fault of the overworked staff.

I don't know the ICU capacity. I have a friend working their ICU. I will ask.

 

[Cdkipp]

What % of ER/ICU beds are taken with covid? What a terrible and unnecessary struggle.

I have found medical care has not been the same. Suddenly much is done by email, phone or video that was done in person. More difficult to get a referral to a specialist. The quality of care seems to be dropping. And not the fault of the overworked staff.

Yes. I care about people and want them to get the best care possible but what really weighs on me is that I know how awful this has to be on the hospital floors. I have some guilt issues about retiring right before this happened. I am still young enough to be working; just fortunate enough not to have to anymore. I worked in other careers besides being a hospital nurse and some of those are considered high stress but I have never come across a group of harder working and caring individuals than nurses. Most doctors are great but nurses are amazing and it is extremely hard work, with life and death decisions under extreme time pressure. Every fall the system just about cracks when flu season hits because, like other businesses, they want to hold their margins and never staff for the worst-case scenario. So health care is at extreme risk and this self-righteous personal rights garbage preached here so misunderstands the true nature of this crisis. I am sure those here that hate me think I am a shill for the health care industry and big pharma. It is a ridiculous notion as I think our health care system is horrible. Now is not the time though to throw accusations and put personal interest ahead of the common good. We need to come together and do all we can individually for the common good. If that means wearing a mask, getting a shot, not going to crowded places, that is an extremely small price to pay.

 

[tigerwillow1]

You don't see how illogical it is to deny access to a medicine that for all practical purposes, doesn't have side effects ?

You used to have good company with Dr. Fauci agreeing with you in March last year, before it became deadly for doctors to prescribe off-label uses that haven't been through rigorous studies. But science keeps changing. I read it right here.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Nearly One Third Of Healthcare Workers In U.S. Hospitals Are Still Not Vaccinated Against Covid-19, CDC Study Finds, As Vaccine Mandate Looms

"Nearly one third" = 30% according to the article. If this is true, the 70% generally thinks the 30% are stupid uneducated ignoramuses who have no regard for others' lives. The 30% generally think the 70% have been brainwashed into believing dishonest studies and political propaganda aided by mass censorship in social media and mainstream press, nevertheless they have the right to believe what they want and make their risky choice. Seems to me the country is screwed no matter which side is right, with at least 30% of hospital staff going the wrong direction.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Nearly One Third Of Healthcare Workers In U.S. Hospitals Are Still Not Vaccinated Against Covid-19, CDC Study Finds, As Vaccine Mandate Looms

"Nearly one third" = 30% according to the article. If this is true, the 70% generally thinks the 30% are stupid uneducated ignoramuses who have no regard for others' lives. The 30% generally think the 70% have been brainwashed into believing dishonest studies and political propaganda aided by mass censorship in social media and mainstream press, nevertheless they have the right to believe what they want and make their risky choice. Seems to me the country is screwed no matter which side is right, with at least 30% of hospital staff going the wrong direction.

It is actually a fairly interesting social experiment. When age is a major factor and nurses in nursing homes refuse to get vaccinated it is concerning. Here is a graph showing excess deaths. In case anyone isn't familiar consider what happens when you don't go to an ER for something like bad stomach pain, shortness of breath, etc because of the long waits and over capacity due to the early covid surge. Also consider what happens when a multi-car pile up happens and all of the hospitals nearby are over capacity. This can result in excess deaths which would plot somewhat in line with COVID surges, with it being weighted towards the beginning when we didn't know how to treat it at all and people stayed in hospitals for a longer time.

 

[time2roll]

I don't know the ICU capacity. I have a friend working their ICU. I will ask.

Not a big deal but this is the part I worry about. I have relatives in Idaho where medical care has been rationed due to lack of facilities and personnel. Getting general medical care could prove difficult for most any condition or accident.

 

[BMcL]

Nearly One Third Of Healthcare Workers In U.S. Hospitals Are Still Not Vaccinated Against Covid-19, CDC Study Finds, As Vaccine Mandate Looms

"Nearly one third" = 30% according to the article. If this is true, the 70% generally thinks the 30% are stupid uneducated ignoramuses who have no regard for others' lives. The 30% generally think the 70% have been brainwashed into believing dishonest studies and political propaganda aided by mass censorship in social media and mainstream press, nevertheless they have the right to believe what they want and make their risky choice. Seems to me the country is screwed no matter which side is right, with at least 30% of hospital staff going the wrong direction.

Most people are vaccinated, so why are they still fearful of the unvaccinated ? It's been proven the vaccinated carry covid as well as the unvaccinated.
Are people being brainwashed into fearing unvaccinated people ? I think so. The commercials on radio and tv keep pounding the message that you MUST be vaccinated.
BTW, I am vaxed with the J&J vaccine. You won't see me put any MRNA vaccine in my body. I will not be taking any boosters. I hope the long term effects are insignificant, but I trust ivermectin over any vaccine for covid. It's already helped me get over the flu quickly.

 

[svetz]

Most people are vaccinated, so why are they still fearful of the unvaccinated ?

If it was just the unvaccinated lives at risk and no money out of pocket to them, no one would probably care.

But the unvaccinated are Petri dishes for creating new variants and experts tell them the next variants may be immune to the vaccine.
From the post yesterday (#821), it was something over 12,700 variants of Covid are known, each variant spawns news variants so the more there are the more change there is.

The other thing is the cost. From the post the other day Covid cost something like $17 trillion so far. All those unvaccinated are running up hospital bills, which through the magic of shared insurance costs we all get to pay for. In comparison, illegal immigrants only cost 100 billion per year (ref), so it's a lot bigger issue when you get down to it.

 

[BMcL]

But the unvaccinated are Petri dishes for creating new variants and experts tell them the next variants may be immune to the vaccine.

The other thing is the cost. From the post the other day Covid cost something like $17 trillion so far. All those unvaccinated are running up hospital bills,

Point #1 is incorrect. Viruses mutate when coming into contact with the vaccinated, not unvaccinated.

Point #2 may have been correct months ago. Now a lot of vaccinated are in the hospital. I think Time2roll said it was 60% unvaxed to 40% vaxed (post 881).
The vaccines aren't lasting and you can't expect people to keep taking boosters.
Young people don't even need to be vaccinated; that's been proven by statistics. Unless there is a rare reason.