Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[RayofSunshine]

I was also intirgued by the idea of cooling the panels and using the water for heating but as someone on the forum pointed out, the price of panels is so low that it makes more sense to just add more panels and use the extra power for heating rather than to spend money on elaborate heatsinks.

Unless one runs into PV generation limits based on available roof space...

 

[robby]

Unless one runs into PV generation limits based on available roof space...

I would fall into that bracket.

 

[RayofSunshine]

They design them in the USA and they write all the firmware. Then they have Deye manufacturer the upper half in China and they do the Lower half in the USA. In return Deye is allowed to use the design on their own inverters so long as they are not manufactored as Split phase units for use in the USA.

I remember the debate that raged in another (longtime) DIY Solar Power Forum thread on who "borrowed", or licensed, or whatevered from whom. I really hope your assertions are correct. Especially the firmware part. I seem to remember assertions (either in this forum or another) that the actual firmware updates are downloaded from servers in PRC.

(The following pertains more to the post of "mvonw" re Sol-Ark's use of servers in the PRC, but also follows-on my above comments.)
Now, having spent an extensive career in software development (Bell Labs/AT&T/Lucent, HP, & back to AT&T Research), with a non-trivial portion of it in various security capacities, I am well aware of at least some of the various methods that nefarious organizations (public or private) can use to reverse engineer software, firmware, and/or hardware to insert back doors, etc. It would be nice to know if Sol-Ark run tests (e.g., CRC checksums) to verify that all software, firmware, etc, are exactly as specified. I don't really care if President Xi and his minions in the PRC know I use, say, an average of 27.9kWh/day of PV generated electricity with an 18.5 kWh LFP ESS. I *do* care if they know the MAC and/or IP address of my inverter, and whether or not they have a back door ready to send a "destruct" code or "run wild" code (remember Stuxnet?) just when I need my solar/ESS system the most (possibly after the PRC, Russia, North Korea, Iran, ... launches an attack on our power grid because they didn't like our response to their invasion of Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea, ??? (maybe all at or near the same time)). I realize that many of the hybrid grid-tied battery charger inverters are made in the PRC. I am also aware that other countries can steal IP and insert back doors. But I am not *nearly* as concerned about Israel (SolarEdge) or Germany (Fronius), or other (mostly) "friendly" countries as I am about the openly hostile governments listed above. *Plus*, we *know* that the PRC *requires* corporations in the PRC to share customer data with the government. So ("mvonw"), unless you're in your 80's or 90's, unfortunately I am afraid you *will* live to see this issue become a reality. Now, whether or not you are still in your PV-powered home or some sort of assisted living facility (which hopefully - but not likely - will have taken steps to mitigate such occurrences so they have power to run whatever medical devices you may need), that is a different - but related - issue...

I really don't mean any of this to be a rant against Sol-Ark. I *really* want to be confident enough to buy from them. First, because they are an American company built and run by veterans, ostensibly helping other veterans any way they can. Second, by all accounts they have excellent customer service (at least after you purchase their product). Third, I still haven't heard a complaint that any of their hardware has failed. Fourth, they have practically all the features I care about and seem responsive to feature improvements (the 15K, their new SmartLoads panel, ESS agnostic, etc.). THE ONLY thing that gives me real pause about wholeheartedly selecting them is the PRC vulnerability (well, they're also more expensive, but you can rationalize the extra cost for the other positives). I dunno. I might hold my nose, go with Sol-Ark, and disconnect it from the Internet after initial commisioning (or just block any network traffic from certain IP address ranges) and try the cobbled-up LAN-based monitoring solution described in a different thread. And then hope Sol-Ark sees the light and addresses these security issues.

Oh, BTW, I thought of the only significant feature Sol-Ark - or anyone else (until now) - lacks: EV DC charging. I'm talking no conversion to AC first. I've seen some claims on other forums that SolarEdge does this, but SolarEdge's own "Smart EV Charger" data sheet indicates that its output is 240VAC. My research recently discovered the dcbel r16 inverter/EV charger. It is very new, lacks other features of Sol-Ark inverters, requires the inverter be close to the EV (within charging cable length), and isn't currently available in NJ (at least according their Web site tool when I input my info), but it shows that the technology exists. They describe the EV charger as a "Level 2.5" charger. Interesting stuff. My breaker panel (next to which I want to install the inverter & ESS) is on the other end of the (full, unfinished) basement from the (first) garage stall, so I don't know if the DC loss of a ~40 ft charging cable would preclude my layout from being able to make use of this capability, but if Sol-Ark could work this into the 15K, it would absolutely be *da bomb*.

 

[RayofSunshine]

I would call into the bracket.

Huh? Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what you mean by this.

 

[SolarHead]

I had no idea I was going to go solar 7 years after building a home. I went with a Navien LP Gas Tankless water heater. At the time, the Rhinnai (spelling?) did not have an internal recirculation pump, but the Navien did/does. Not sure now if the Rhinnai now has a pump or not. I had a LP generator, then it kind of made sense for me to get a LP water heater, although if you can heat water 100% off solar power, more power to you (pun intended). However, I enjoy the tankless LP, never run out of hot water, its unlimited as long as you dont go past I think the 6GPM max it has, but I think thats based on well water being 60F and the rise is from there up to 120F. I installed a 50 foot loop (one way so entire loop is about 110 feet long) using 3/4" PEX. I insulated the hot water loop with the float noodle looking pipe insulation (split down one side length). The Navien has settings for how to handle the external circulation, depending on if you want eco mode, or not. The purpose of the hot water loop is so you dont have to wait for hot water at the faucet or shower. Its maybe 1 to 2 seconds tops that its hot. The unit takes 150W power (110v plug to receptacle) so thats not a big deal electrical wise. The 6GPM is limit is based on how much rise (60F to 120F). It can do more if the incoming water is warmer, and thats where I plan to go here in another month or so. I plan to install an electric water heater , 50 gallon maybe, and wire the smart load coming from my Sol-Ark over to the bottom element and let maybe 2500 watts go to the bottom element, to heat water to 100F . The Navien company said not to pre-heat water higher than 20 degrees where your setting is at. I like the gas to heat to 120, so the pre-heat tank can't be more than 100F. I asked what happens if I were to send 120F water or even 140F water to the Navien and they said "dont do it" but never told me what would happen. So I plan to set the pre-heat tank to 100F on the bottom element. The top element will NOT be wired to anything. My goal is to reduce how much LP the water heater uses. I figure preheating it to 90F would be halfway between the 60F well water and 120F so 100F is just above half so the water heater should be twice as efficient and its already very efficient. Keep in mind , tankless water heaters you have to flush (de-scale) them annually with vinegar if you have hard or semi-hard water. The heating of hard water creates scale. You can put a de-scaler device on your water pipe like Zilnet ActivFlo Conditioner which does work believe it or not. I think it reduces scale but doesn't eliminate so I figure I will still de-scale my heater annually. Keep in mind LP produces more BTU's than natural gas. And the incoming water temperature , plus type of gas you use, has direct effect on how many GPM your water heater can produce. You can daisy chain the Navien if you feel you dont have enough hot water, but I did not and never have ran out of hot water with just a single Navien. I even put a hot/cold faucet in the garage for washing down stuff or washing cars in the winter. I have one Navien 240A and its a nice piece of equipment from what I can tell. Talking about water is a bit off topic, but pre-heating water using solar power, and the use of LP tankless is why I decided to post, hopefully help you with your decisions.

 

[SolarHead]

I know lots of people think Sol-Ark is over-priced, and it is a hefty price tag, but I think what they are doing is putting that money back into building the company and customer service from what I have seen. I have gotten a ton of excellent customer service from Sol-Ark. With Sol-Ark , I imagine if they could sell their inverter for $1,300 on the open market, you'd have nearly everyone in the solar community saying it was the best inverter on the market ever without question! But with a hefty price tag, you got people that want to say why they think its not worth it. They find every negative big or small. So far, my Sol-Ark has performed very well, service was excellent, and if I were to have gone with another brand of inverter, can't say I would have made it to the finish line with installation if the level of service was any less (because I was/still am a solar newbie). Like heat pumps, what's the best brand everyone asks? Sure there's some brands that are pure junk, but if you go with the top 5 or so brands, and here's the important part ---> a very good installer, you will have a long life of service from your heat pump. Now if you go with the most expensive highest-rated heat pump on the market, and your installer is a DA (first name Mo, last name Ron) , well, you are going to have problems from day one and a heat pump system that doesn't last but about half the years it should have if you're lucky. I would focus more on the install than brand of inverter but the inverter needs to be in the top say 3 brands. Not getting into an argument of which brands of heat pumps, or inverters are considered the "best". The best is the one that was installed and used properly.

 

[robby]

I would fall into the bracket.

Sorry it was supposed to be Fall into that bracket.
My finger hit the C under the F on the keyboard and I posted without reading it.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I remember the debate that raged in another (longtime) DIY Solar Power Forum thread on who "borrowed", or licensed, or whatevered from whom. I really hope your assertions are correct. Especially the firmware part. I seem to remember assertions (either in this forum or another) that the actual firmware updates are downloaded from servers in PRC.

(The following pertains more to the post of "mvonw" re Sol-Ark's use of servers in the PRC, but also follows-on my above comments.)
Now, having spent an extensive career in software development (Bell Labs/AT&T/Lucent, HP, & back to AT&T Research), with a non-trivial portion of it in various security capacities, I am well aware of at least some of the various methods that nefarious organizations (public or private) can use to reverse engineer software, firmware, and/or hardware to insert back doors, etc. It would be nice to know if Sol-Ark run tests (e.g., CRC checksums) to verify that all software, firmware, etc, are exactly as specified. I don't really care if President Xi and his minions in the PRC know I use, say, an average of 27.9kWh/day of PV generated electricity with an 18.5 kWh LFP ESS. I *do* care if they know the MAC and/or IP address of my inverter, and whether or not they have a back door ready to send a "destruct" code or "run wild" code (remember Stuxnet?) just when I need my solar/ESS system the most (possibly after the PRC, Russia, North Korea, Iran, ... launches an attack on our power grid because they didn't like our response to their invasion of Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea, ??? (maybe all at or near the same time)). I realize that many of the hybrid grid-tied battery charger inverters are made in the PRC. I am also aware that other countries can steal IP and insert back doors. But I am not *nearly* as concerned about Israel (SolarEdge) or Germany (Fronius), or other (mostly) "friendly" countries as I am about the openly hostile governments listed above. *Plus*, we *know* that the PRC *requires* corporations in the PRC to share customer data with the government. So ("mvonw"), unless you're in your 80's or 90's, unfortunately I am afraid you *will* live to see this issue become a reality. Now, whether or not you are still in your PV-powered home or some sort of assisted living facility (which hopefully - but not likely - will have taken steps to mitigate such occurrences so they have power to run whatever medical devices you may need), that is a different - but related - issue...

I really don't mean any of this to be a rant against Sol-Ark. I *really* want to be confident enough to buy from them. First, because they are an American company built and run by veterans, ostensibly helping other veterans any way they can. Second, by all accounts they have excellent customer service (at least after you purchase their product). Third, I still haven't heard a complaint that any of their hardware has failed. Fourth, they have practically all the features I care about and seem responsive to feature improvements (the 15K, their new SmartLoads panel, ESS agnostic, etc.). THE ONLY thing that gives me real pause about wholeheartedly selecting them is the PRC vulnerability (well, they're also more expensive, but you can rationalize the extra cost for the other positives). I dunno. I might hold my nose, go with Sol-Ark, and disconnect it from the Internet after initial commisioning (or just block any network traffic from certain IP address ranges) and try the cobbled-up LAN-based monitoring solution described in a different thread. And then hope Sol-Ark sees the light and addresses these security issues.

Oh, BTW, I thought of the only significant feature Sol-Ark - or anyone else (until now) - lacks: EV DC charging. I'm talking no conversion to AC first. I've seen some claims on other forums that SolarEdge does this, but SolarEdge's own "Smart EV Charger" data sheet indicates that its output is 240VAC. My research recently discovered the dcbel r16 inverter/EV charger. It is very new, lacks other features of Sol-Ark inverters, requires the inverter be close to the EV (within charging cable length), and isn't currently available in NJ (at least according their Web site tool when I input my info), but it shows that the technology exists. They describe the EV charger as a "Level 2.5" charger. Interesting stuff. My breaker panel (next to which I want to install the inverter & ESS) is on the other end of the (full, unfinished) basement from the (first) garage stall, so I don't know if the DC loss of a ~40 ft charging cable would preclude my layout from being able to make use of this capability, but if Sol-Ark could work this into the 15K, it would absolutely be *da bomb*.

Hence why a lot of us are using or going to use a Raspberry PI and Solar assistant ( or some other local database) to gather usage stats from the Sol-arks.
I program mine from the front panel anyway.

You don’t have to use the dongle.

It’s convenient for them to push firmware updates. I haven’t tried yet but the web interface appears pretty straightforward. If we had the file we could do the upgrades also..

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Just remember all the system monitoring data for a Sol-Ark system are sent to a server in China. For remote monitoring you have to sign into that server to view it.

Which is why most of us use or going to use a PI and Solar assistant.

 

[SolarHead]

PI and Solar assistant

With Pi and SolarAssistant, you can remove the dongle from the Sol-Ark, and they can still push updates to the firmware ? I thought it would require the dongle for updates to be pushed. Does SolarAssistant allow for firmware updates? Does it allow for parameters/settings to be set and controlled remotely or do you have to do all configuration settings through the Sol-Ark screen?

I doubt this happens, but I'd be okay if Sol-Ark removed the screen and dongle entirely, saved that money, lowered the price tag as a result, built an internal webserver (it gets an IP address via wired RJ11 port from the owners DHCP) and from there you can control everything , see and build reports on everything, all on a local web browser via any device that supports a web browser. The interface would have the "request firmware update" feature built in which Sol-Ark would be able to push to, or just have it so the user has to download the file and push it in themselves. I don't see this happening any time soon. It seems my router and most every device in my home including printers has this type of configuration where I can hit an IP and view and update firmware myself. I think email and/or text notifications from the system would be nice too, where you can have it notify your phone if battery reaches X%, or temp reaches X deg F, and so on.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

With Pi and SolarAssistant, you can remove the dongle from the Sol-Ark, and they can still push updates to the firmware ? I thought it would require the dongle for updates to be pushed. Does SolarAssistant allow for firmware updates? Does it allow for parameters/settings to be set and controlled remotely or do you have to do all configuration settings through the Sol-Ark screen?

I doubt this happens, but I'd be okay if Sol-Ark removed the screen and dongle entirely, saved that money, lowered the price tag as a result, built an internal webserver (it gets an IP address via wired RJ11 port from the owners DHCP) and from there you can control everything , see and build reports on everything, all on a local web browser via any device that supports a web browser. The interface would have the "request firmware update" feature built in which Sol-Ark would be able to push to, or just have it so the user has to download the file and push it in themselves. I don't see this happening any time soon. It seems my router and most every device in my home including printers has this type of configuration where I can hit an IP and view and update firmware myself. I think email and/or text notifications from the system would be nice too, where you can have it notify your phone if battery reaches X%, or temp reaches X deg F, and so on.

Not necessarily remove it but don’t use it for PV pro or reinstall it when you want to update.

Once you figure out what IP it’s using just Port 80 to it and you get a simple screen with the information and a firmware upload box.

You can’t do the update without the dongle in it.

As far as I know all the menu updates would have to be done from the screen with the dongle off.

 

[tomy2]

ecodirect.com/Sol-Ark-15K-15kW-48-Volt-Hybrid-Inverter-p/sol-ark-15k.htm

$8,250.00 Expected availability May, 2022

So I didn't have to learn all this stuff and could simply connect the unit for more power than I could use? Just kidding!
Nice find robby.

For $8k does it have batteries in it?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

For $8k does it have batteries in it?

No

 

[4thHorseman]

The only thing I found, in regards to batteries, were which type it could use:

Battery Type Lead-Acid or Li-Ion

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The only thing I found, in regards to batteries, were which type it could use:

Battery Type Lead-Acid or Li-Ion

It can use any chemistry battery.

 

[4thHorseman]

Ok, I'm just stating what the website said on the spec sheet.

I don't know crap about most of this so I simply follow instructions and that's what is written.

 

[RayofSunshine]

Sorry it was supposed to be Fall into that bracket.
My finger hit the C under the F on the keyboard and I posted without reading it.

Ah: now I get it. I thought you were giving me advice. I even tried doing a Web search. The closest thing to any useful info referenced some javascript. All the rest had to do with NCAA March Madness... ?

 

[RayofSunshine]

Hence why a lot of us are using or going to use a Raspberry PI and Solar assistant ( or some other local database) to gather usage stats from the Sol-arks.
I program mine from the front panel anyway.

You don’t have to use the dongle.

It’s convenient for them to push firmware updates. I haven’t tried yet but the web interface appears pretty straightforward. If we had the file we could do the upgrades also..

Yes. In my "cobbled-up LAN-based monitoring solution described in a different thread", I confused those using ths RS485 port and going after the data themselves with the additional info I read on the R-Pi & Solar Assistant. I looked at Solar Assistant's Web page. Interesting. How easy/useful do you find it? BTW: I mean no disrespect by the "cobbled-up" phrase; rather I meant that it is not a readily available officially supported product (for those attempting to access the data on the inverter themselves - not R-Pi/Solar-Assistant). Perhaps I should have used the word "improvised" instead of "cobbled-up".

Yep: when I said "...disconnect it from the Internet after initial commisioning...", I meant that I'd remove the dongle.

Wait, by "...the web interface...", do you mean that the Sol-Ark *inverter* has its own Web server? Or are you talking about Sol-Ark's monitoring Web page?

What Sol-Ark *should* be doing for updates (besides the current method for those willing to trust it) is giving customers the option to download some kind of (verified) executable from a *U.S.-based* server (hopefully at their new site in Plano, TX) onto their PC/laptop/tablet/smartphone, and support some way to install & run that executable on the inverter (via microSD, or over a local LAN) to update the firmware.

 

[RayofSunshine]

With Pi and SolarAssistant, you can remove the dongle from the Sol-Ark, and they can still push updates to the firmware ? I thought it would require the dongle for updates to be pushed. Does SolarAssistant allow for firmware updates? Does it allow for parameters/settings to be set and controlled remotely or do you have to do all configuration settings through the Sol-Ark screen?

I doubt this happens, but I'd be okay if Sol-Ark removed the screen and dongle entirely, saved that money, lowered the price tag as a result, built an internal webserver (it gets an IP address via wired RJ11 port from the owners DHCP) and from there you can control everything , see and build reports on everything, all on a local web browser via any device that supports a web browser. The interface would have the "request firmware update" feature built in which Sol-Ark would be able to push to, or just have it so the user has to download the file and push it in themselves. I don't see this happening any time soon. It seems my router and most every device in my home including printers has this type of configuration where I can hit an IP and view and update firmware myself. I think email and/or text notifications from the system would be nice too, where you can have it notify your phone if battery reaches X%, or temp reaches X deg F, and so on.

Amen. But didn't you mean an RJ45 (LAN) port instead of RJ11 (phone)?

 

[SolarHead]

Amen. But didn't you mean an RJ45 (LAN) port instead of RJ11 (phone)?

Yes I meant to type RJ45. I think my mind was saying RJ45 but my stupid fingers typed RJ11 for some reasons. Sorry for any confusion.