Coming Energy Prices …..

[Goboatingnow]

A 100 gallon grow bag is approximately 3 ft in diameter. I'm hoping I'll get 40 to 60 lbs of potatoes out of this (first time so don't know).

Grow bags are relatively cheap. Even if not affordable for some, I also threw 6 or 7 chunks of seed potatoes into a small Amazon box and filled it to the edge with soil with flaps hanging down. When the plants got tall enough, I taped the sides up and added more soil.

Any of these options can fit on a balcony or patio in one size or another.

Yes, some people live in apartments with no extra space at all. There are still some things you can grow on a window sill or near a window, or even mushrooms that only need light to fruit, not to spread throughout a medium.

You can get free boxes from most grocery or big box stores or just swing by the recycling area near an apartments mail area. If you can't afford dirt, you can get more boxes, leaves, twigs, coffee grounds, and food scraps out of compost bins and in 4 to 6 months you'll have free soil.

People are too lazy and stupid wasting their lives on useless crap (their phones/apps, TV, "reality" TV, buying crap quality clothing and products they don't need, etc). Maybe they should learn to connect with nature and each other more and the world wouldn't have half the problems it has. I have very limited interest in bailing these people out...only slightly more interest than the zero I had for bailing out the banks in 2008/2009. When I say I want "a living wage", it's for people that actually work hard enough.

As I've said earlier though, I'm in support of making sure people aren't hungry for this very reason). You're right about me and others not being able to stop a mob. So if they were to come, I'd let them take all my food....Then I'd find them in their individual homes, without the protection of the mob, and my family and I'll be eating meat every night. Viciousness begets viciousness and I won't be turning any cheeks and I won't be starving if there's sheep available.... I'll see your hypothetical mob and raise you.

I very much do not want society to get to this point, so hopefully our politicians will stop kissing the asses of the corporations and do what's best for the American people.

As a counter to your point, I think the pandemic taught people to "hoard" more, so hopefully most people actually have enough nonperishables to eat for a few weeks i

Other then toilet paper I saw virtually no hoarding around me. Thd shops had virtually no supply chain issues.

In fact the pandemic taught people to reach out, share , mind their neighbours etc

Sure no one wants the mob. But to this m you’ll get any firm of retribution in is fantasy. This isn’t a Rambo movie. Real life isn’t tv.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

One point of clarification....we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki and 70 years later radiation levels have returned to background levels. This number specifically because the longest lasting radioactive isotope of note in the detonation has a half-life of 14 years. Radioactive waste that lasts for 100s or 1000s of years is NOT dangerous unless you eat/drink/inhale it. The long life of this waste implies that it is not very radioactive.

Radiation is bad, but it's not Mad Max forever and life on Earth has evolved despite (because?) of the background radiation everywhere.

I really wish the US would just build some more, modern, nuclear power plants and automatically make the US grid carbon free (solar, wind, with nuclear for base load). People are afraid of nuclear energy because of science fiction and horror movies.

We aren't far apart, you and I.
Another point of clarification...Chernobyl happened in 1986 and is a continuing disaster after more than 35 years. THE ZONE is an area originally established as a 19 mile (30km) radius around the facility that is known as the worst contaminated area on the globe. They have since had to expand that radius. Wheat will NEVER be grown there again.
Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is nearly twice the output capacity as Chernobyl was rated for.

I worked in containment on Units 2&3 of San Onofre back in the early 80s and worked on the decommissioning of Unit 1 after the 3 Mile Island accident. I am pro-nuclear power. Several of my cohorts worked on Vogtle 3&4 out of our Augusta local back in '07 and I would have gone down there too but the scale was shitty and the pace too slow, so I stayed at the coal fired redo up in Cayuga, Indiana and worked on terminations for the winter working 7-10s. Vogtle is the first nuclear plant built in 3 decades and is using new tech. Unit 3 finished hot functional testing over a year ago and plans to go online in 2023. Unit 4 is to follow in 2024. Currently there are about 7,000 workers onsite. It is expected to provide clean safe power for 60-80 years!

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I hope he doesn't resort tactical nukes. Then we'll all be in it.

One point of clarification....we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki and 70 years later radiation levels have returned to background levels. This number specifically because the longest lasting radioactive isotope of note in the detonation has a half-life of 14 years. Radioactive waste that lasts for 100s or 1000s of years is NOT dangerous unless you eat/drink/inhale it. The long life of this waste implies that it is not very radioactive.

I just wanted to be clear I wasn't talking about the end of the world. I was talking about the likely end to the U.S. all volunteer military when we all have to go fight. Currently we aren't able to attract recruits to maintain even peacetime levels.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I

I'm currently growing in 100 gallon grow bags with a simple metal fence wrapped around them to discourage the deer....some hardware cloth (temporary usage, need actual bird netting) over immature blueberry plants to keep birds out.

Clay soil. Need to plant some Comfrey to break up the soil and generate more compost and fence in more area to keep deer out.

My neighbor will teach me to use his excavator and borrow it for the cost of gas...So I'll dig a couple swales across my hillside to accumulate rain + leaf drop. My neighbor on the other side has more deciduous trees.... Going to see if he'll let me rake up his leaves and dump them in the swale to get things started. Burned a bunch of branches and trees last spring (fire control) so I have a bunch of charcoal and ash (some already mixed into my grow bags)

I'm not planning on growing 25k to 35k pounds of potatoes, I just meant that it doesn't take that much land to grow 1000 pounds of potatoes.... anyone on a 1/6 acre lot in a city could probably do that if they wanted.


I'm going to try for a simple root cellar this year: bury 1 or 2 55 gallon food grade containers in the ground, cut some holes in the lid, cover with hardware cloth and a lid (or maybe just a square of cinder blocks and a piece of plywood.

Probably won't put too much potatoes/carrots in there until I see how that does. If it works, I'll put off making an actual root cellar for longer....if anyone has tips on a simple and cheap root cellar idea, let me know.

So I had a barrel half left sitting around that we used to provide water to our dairy goats back when we still needed a strong grip and drilled some 3/4" holes all the way around the base about 4" from the bottom as well as a bunch of holes in the bottom. I placed 4" of soil in the bottom and spread 1lb. of seed Huckleberry Gold seeds potatoes around in a circle and didn't cut any of them. Then I cover with another 6" of soil. Huckleberry Golds are indeterminate variety so when the first greem popped up I added more dirt until it was where you see it. The rest I filled with yard raking mulchy material to keep light out from the roots. I calculate there to be 18 gallons of soil and it produced 5lbs of potatoes. I harvested when all the flowers had finished and the greenery had mostly died.
I did the Yukon Golds in the 7 gallon felt pots. I divided 1lb. of seed between the 3 pots (2 potatoes each) and didn't cut them up either. They are a determinate variety so I started with 2" of soil and placed to seeds there. Then I added soil all the way to the level seen and the rest of the space I filled with mulch. Between the 3 felt containers I yielded 5lbs just like I did in the single container.
Those felt pots will last many years and are cheap enough. The handles are pretty handy too.
Bottom line...you can grow potatoes in almost anything!

Other then toilet paper I saw virtually no hoarding around me. Thd shops had virtually no supply chain issues.

In fact the pandemic taught people to reach out, share , mind their neighbours etc

It isn't about hoarding. Back in WW2 our parents and grandparents all grew Victory Gardens at the request of the government. They weren't hoarding anything. They were getting ready for winter. Some of us aren't very far removed from the agrarian lifestyle and it makes sense to us.
Would you be downplaying that as a strategy should Russia cause the war to escalate to global conflict? At my house we haven't had to purchase an egg since the pandemic started and they are a great source of protein. We don't even have to feed the chickens that lay them. Our neighbor does that and in exchange, we do something for them.

 

[Goboatingnow]

So I had a barrel half left sitting around that we used to provide water to our dairy goats back when we still needed a strong grip and drilled some 3/4" holes all the way around the base about 4" from the bottom as well as a bunch of holes in the bottom. I placed 4" of soil in the bottom and spread 1lb. of seed Huckleberry Gold seeds potatoes around in a circle and didn't cut any of them. Then I cover with another 6" of soil. Huckleberry Golds are indeterminate variety so when the first greem popped up I added more dirt until it was where you see it. The rest I filled with yard raking mulchy material to keep light out from the roots. I calculate there to be 18 gallons of soil and it produced 5lbs of potatoes. I harvested when all the flowers had finished and the greenery had mostly died.
I did the Yukon Golds in the 7 gallon felt pots. I divided 1lb. of seed between the 3 pots (2 potatoes each) and didn't cut them up either. They are a determinate variety so I started with 2" of soil and placed to seeds there. Then I added soil all the way to the level seen and the rest of the space I filled with mulch. Between the 3 felt containers I yielded 5lbs just like I did in the single container.
Those felt pots will last many years and are cheap enough. The handles are pretty handy too.
Bottom line...you can grow potatoes in almost anything!

It isn't about hoarding. Back in WW2 our parents and grandparents all grew Victory Gardens at the request of the government. They weren't hoarding anything. They were getting ready for winter. Some of us aren't very far removed from the agrarian lifestyle and it makes sense to us.
Would you be downplaying that as a strategy should Russia cause the war to escalate to global conflict? At my house we haven't had to purchase an egg since the pandemic started and they are a great source of protein. We don't even have to feed the chickens that lay them. Our neighbor does that and in exchange, we do something for them.

Any way Ukraine is winning and. this will all be over by Christmas

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Any way Ukraine is winning and. this will all be over by Christmas

Fingers crossed. ?
That still leaves a good part of the world in famine for the next few years. If Ukraine couldn't/didn't get their wheat planted this year then famine will persist at least 2 years beyond that.
It also means that Russia is finished as an oil exporter. The wells they have been pumping oil from were results of Exxon and other foreign producers. It took them decades to get those wells operating in the permafrost and Rex Tillerson has no intention of doing it again. Once those wells stop flowing they are done.
That's going to make everything more expensive that requires an oil input at the front end. Those potatoes are getting better looking everyday.

I found this... Countries such as Egypt — the biggest importer of Ukrainian wheat last year — as well as Lebanon, Pakistan and others, get most of their wheat from Ukraine. The country produces about a fifth of the world’s high-grade wheat and 7% of all wheat. The UN World Food Program buys half of its grain from Ukraine.

And this...
Which countries get wheat from Russia and Ukraine?
Among them, countries in Africa and the Middle East in particular are heavily dependent on wheat imports from Russia and Ukraine. According to the UN Comtrade database, Benin and Somalia obtained all of their wheat from Ukraine and/or Russia. The dependency of Egypt stood at 82 percent, according to the data.

It's NEVER a bad idea to grow and save food and seed. When they can't get it from Ukraine and Russia they will be competing for ours and driving prices up.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Not denying that education has gotten ridiculous (common core seems like it is teaching kids weird ways to solve math problems instead of ways that can be remembered FOREVER). However these types of videos only keep the clips of the stupid people. They don't show the majority who answered the question correctly......Media implying that poorly educated / stupid people are funny instead of being a failure of society is another issue.

I talked to the people who made the video and others like it.

Far more ignorant people than knowledgeable.

Bad part is they THINK they are so smart but can’t answer basic civic questions.

Believe me it’s worse than you think.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Fingers crossed. ?
That still leaves a good part of the world in famine for the next few years. If Ukraine couldn't/didn't get their wheat planted this year then famine will persist at least 2 years beyond that.
It also means that Russia is finished as an oil exporter. The wells they have been pumping oil from were results of Exxon and other foreign producers. It took them decades to get those wells operating in the permafrost and Rex Tillerson has no intention of doing it again. Once those wells stop flowing they are done.
That's going to make everything more expensive that requires an oil input at the front end. Those potatoes are getting better looking everyday.

I found this... Countries such as Egypt — the biggest importer of Ukrainian wheat last year — as well as Lebanon, Pakistan and others, get most of their wheat from Ukraine. The country produces about a fifth of the world’s high-grade wheat and 7% of all wheat. The UN World Food Program buys half of its grain from Ukraine.

And this...
Which countries get wheat from Russia and Ukraine?
Among them, countries in Africa and the Middle East in particular are heavily dependent on wheat imports from Russia and Ukraine. According to the UN Comtrade database, Benin and Somalia obtained all of their wheat from Ukraine and/or Russia. The dependency of Egypt stood at 82 percent, according to the data.

It's NEVER a bad idea to grow and save food and seed. When they can't get it from Ukraine and Russia they will be competing for ours and driving prices up.

I see fuel pricing around me now back to about 10% over last year. The world is a actually awash with oil.

Grain is a problem buts a temporary one. In two years production will be largely restored.

Given I’m from the one of the most food secure nation in the world I’m not worried. !!!

I do not feel these issue are long term and it will settle back quickly enough.
Russia is screwed big time but that’s fine.

 

[robstrom]

There is no evidence that microgenerstion is a “ good thing “ overall , energy regulators have huge concerns and power engineers question the whole stability issue.


AC motors are efficient. Power conversion losses to dc offset some gains.

To allow good food , we need to make it cheap. That’s s contradiction. Arguably tax dollars should be subsidising quality healthy , organic local food sources. Banning growth hormones would be a start.


No such thing as free markets . It’s a nonsense concept. People don’t have equal opportunity so can’t have free markets.

Once you reach a wealth gap tipping point you get revolution , see Marie Antionete for advice

We break up large corporations all thd time. You think small government can do that !!! , right sure


God no what’s nightmare seanario . Instead let’s raise taxes on big corporation and the wealthy and then funf more basic services for the needy like housing , education and medical care.

Nope there will always be a wealth gap cause people are born with silver spoons.
So we must as a caring society put big safety nets under those that struggle. Most countries do just that.

Prepare for what exactly. You certainly can’t do anything that insulated you from a rebellion or revolution

FFS, go back to your Berkeley professor gig n stfu.
It's MY money, to give or hoard. Government has NO money.
"Caring society"? Says who??
Spend every penny you have, caring.
Leave my money/ life energy out of your equation.

 

[Batvette]

You watch Tucker Carlson??? You get information from Tucker Carlson? He's like the television version of a tabloid paper claiming aliens control the government.

That's hilarious.

View attachment 109288

Ooo... Attacks the source with no rebuttal.

Youre such a stud.

 

[Batvette]

I see fuel pricing around me now back to about 10% over last year. The world is a actually awash with oil.

Grain is a problem buts a temporary one. In two years production will be largely restored.

Given I’m from the one of the most food secure nation in the world I’m not worried. !!!

I do not feel these issue are long term and it will settle back quickly enough.
Russia is screwed big time but that’s fine.

Well its harvest time and the mississipi river, the means by which much of Americas midwest agriculture gets to market, is at record low levels. The few channels that were still traversable are now blocked by barges that have run aground.

Things change pretty quickly.

 

[Goboatingnow]

FFS, go back to your Berkeley professor gig n stfu.
It's MY money, to give or hoard. Government has NO money.
"Caring society"? Says who??
Spend every penny you have, caring.
Leave my money/ life energy out of your equation.

Sorry you are allowed to accumulate wealth according to your Gov rules and taxes , society levies taxes so you contribute to the overall well being of society .

You need a stable society in order to be able to live and spend your money. Otherwise the dispssossed put your head under the guillotine. History is replete with many examples.

In a fiat currency the gov actually controls all the money !

So we need a caring stable society that protects the weak and the poor and ensures everyone has the ability to survive and even prosper.

Most countries realise this and act so.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Well its harvest time and the mississipi river, the means by which much of Americas midwest agriculture gets to market, is at record low levels. The few channels that were still traversable are now blocked by barges that have run aground.

Things change pretty quickly.

Yup when in danger or in doubt , run in circles , scream and shout

 

[MurphyGuy]

Ooo... Attacks the source with no rebuttal.

Youre such a stud.

I read your manifesto, you are a sick person and you should get mental help.

 

[grizzzman]

I read your manifesto, you are a sick person and you should get mental help.

Its always wise to look at "both" sides of the fence to seek the truth.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Its always wise to look at "both" sides of the fence to seek the truth.

That applies to people, not to facts or science.

 

[grizzzman]

That applies to people, not to facts or science.

Over the years I have seen the "facts" and the "Science" change. An open mind will always result in better "Facts"

 

[MurphyGuy]

Over the years I have seen the "facts" and the "Science" change. An open mind will always result in better "Facts"

Change is part of life, and as science advances, we understand more. Science is always your safest and most reliable bet.

 

[grizzzman]

Change is part of life, and as science advances, we understand more. Science is always your safest and most reliable bet.

You are correct and all the more reason to keep an open mind.