LTO battery fire

[Sanwizard]

Pretty much rules out at least half the electrical on Amazon

Yup. Thats why all my solar panels are on out buildings, and the inverters are mounted outside on cement board, with metal screening for a bit of EMP protection.

The batteries are mounted in a DIY Unistrut frame, inside a water resistant covering, since they are also outside the house and exposed to rain and storms. I built a covered roof with cinder block foundation for the structure.

I dont think DIY Seplos Mason batteries will ever be UL approved, so I took precautions. I did have an electrician review my work, and the AC side was all permited and inspected. The town has no knowledge, procedures, codes or permits on batteries yet. I wonder when that will start? In any case, it seems my DIY batteries are probably safer than the LG batteries mentioned above!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Better to be Dead Right than Dead Wrong?

Fire hazard leads to further product recall for LG residential battery storage systems

A product recall has been announced for around 10,000 units of residential battery energy storage systems (BESS) by manufacturer LG Energy Solution Michigan in the US, due to potential fire risks.

www.energy-storage.news

LG Chem Resu 10H Residential Battery Fire Lawsuit Lawyers

Our LG Chem Resu 10H residential lithium-ion battery fire lawsuit lawyers help those injured, burn, or families who lost a love one due to the defective battery cells file a claim to receive monetary compensation.

www.yourlawyer.com

LG Energy Solution Michigan Recalls Home Energy Storage Batteries Due to Fire Hazard

Consumers with recalled batteries should immediately contact LG Energy Solution Michigan to schedule a free replacement. LG Energy Solution Michigan will arrange for modifications to recalled batteries that are connected online to reduce the risk of overheating until they can be replaced with...

www.cpsc.gov

LG Chem home batteries recalled for fire risk a week after new product launch - Batteries International

December 18, 2020: Another day, another lithium fire. The latest recall comes from LG Energy Solution, the battery firm spun off from LG Chem. On December 16 it recalled its lithium-ion home battery systems in Michigan, US — just over a week after it launched a new line of the products. Five...

www.batteriesinternational.com

View attachment 180815

... to lithium batteries in the home.

Aren't these UL 1642 and UL1973 lised?

Aren't these also high voltage, 350-450VDC?

Aren't these NON-LFP?

Do these things have anything in common with LFP batteries?

Is posting this in response to fire concerns with LFP essentially just spreading FUD?

 

[Partimewages]

The town has no knowledge, procedures, codes or permits on batteries yet. I wonder when that will start? In any case, it seems my DIY batteries are probably safer than the LG batteries mentioned above!

If your local has adopted any NEC in the past it's already in there. ALL equipment/devices installed are to be UL Listed. Anything not listed is not allowed to be installed.
There is very little electrical on Amazon that is listed. If you want to find it just filter your search for highest price first. ?

 

[Skypower]

From what I’ve gathered lately, most insurance are useless. Unfortunately, they mainly cover if you have a loan and you have the additional weight of a lending institution behind you. In the long run, you’re better off being safer with your system and not planning on the insurance coverage helping.

 

[Skypower]

Do these things have anything in common with LFP batteries?

Yup, wires, bms and it’s a battery. But that’s about it

 

[SeaGal]

Aren't these NON-LFP?

Do these things have anything in common with LFP batteries?

One of the links refers to 'thermal runaway' - so I guess not

 

[JJJJ]

True lithium ion can get thermal runaway. This technology is much tamer.

 

[SamDeleted]

One of the links refers to 'thermal runaway' - so I guess not

So LiFePo4 don't suffer thermal runaway?

 

[SeaGal]

So LiFePo4 don't suffer thermal runaway?

No - they have a negative thermal coefficient. That's why we're all using them instead of lead-acid...... oh... wait

 

[SamDeleted]

No - they have a negative thermal co-efficient.

They get pretty hot under the collar if you give them a poke or two with a big metal rod ?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306261923000594#:~:text=Battery%20venting%20occurs%20after%204264,be%20divided%20into%20three%20steps.

 

[SamDeleted]

No - they have a negative thermal coefficient. That's why we're all using them instead of lead-acid...... oh... wait

You're such a lithium snob ?

 

[SeaGal]

I wasn't planning on doing that to my EVE's anytime soon

 

[Hedges]

Aren't these UL 1642 and UL1973 lised?

Aren't these also high voltage, 350-450VDC?

High voltage, but I don't think that had anything to do with the failure. Although, I didn't see recall of LG RESU 48V batteries.

My point was that using "Listed" batteries only makes you Dead Right, rather than being Dead Wrong.

Aren't these NON-LFP?

Do these things have anything in common with LFP batteries?

Is posting this in response to fire concerns with LFP essentially just spreading FUD?

Only partially, not entirely, I think.

They are non-LFP, a more dangerous chemistry.
But all batteries carry some fire danger. One forum member in Thailand was awakened by his fire alarms, and the large LiFePO4 battery bank was a total loss. Fortunately isolated well enough from the house. He now favors battery packs with welded busbars.

I posted in response to:

Any inside the home solutions should be UL listed to make sure your insurance company does not have an excuse in case of fire damage.

... which is true, but doesn't mean you won't have a fire.

I would favor putting all lithium batteries, listed or not, explody chemistry or not, in an "ammo dump", where their going up won't take anything else with it.

 

[SeaGal]

But all batteries carry some fire danger. One forum member in Thailand was awakened by his fire alarms, and the large LiFePO4 battery bank was a total loss. Fortunately isolated well enough from the house. He now favors battery packs with welded busbars.
...
I would favor putting all lithium batteries, listed or not, explody chemistry or not, in an "ammo dump", where their going up won't take anything else with it.

I would favour putting all lithium batteries in an "ammo dump", where a failure up won't take anything else with it.

In my mind any high current system exposes the danger of heat, possibly leading to fire, if connections carrying lots of amps don't remain low resistance for whatever reason.

Mine are 30m from my house.

 

[Hedges]

True, but that also means your grid-connected electrical equipment and circuitry must be located outdoors.
I have 240V, 100A and 200A service at various properties. Quite enough to overheat bad connections, could hit 1/4 MW.

Batteries differ in that we have more access to conductors prior to OCP.
I have 48V 405 Ah located outside under a deck. 105 Ah in a garage, 250 Ah and 500 Ah not yet installed sitting in garages, will be installed indoors.

 

[SamDeleted]

Lifepo4 cells catch fire! - Battery Vehicle Society

This guy's LiFePo4 burnt , a good few years ago.. he thinks it was a BMS issue. Apparently it burnt so hot it melted the gearbox ?

 

[SeaGal]

True, but that also means your grid-connected electrical equipment and circuitry must be located outdoors

Inverter & batteries In a garage, not outdoors. Grid-tied system, so connected to house via underground SWA cable.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Lifepo4 cells catch fire! - Battery Vehicle Society

This guy's LiFePo4 burnt , a good few years ago.. he thinks it was a BMS issue. Apparently it burnt so hot it melted the gearbox ?

There is flammable stuff around LFP. It's not that they can't catch fire, it's that they aren't self-fueling, and you can put out a LFP fire with an extinguisher - you can't with other lithium fires, they just reignite. They must be continuously doused with water to manage the temperature until they eventually burn themselves out.

 

[SamDeleted]

There is flammable stuff around LFP. It's not that they can't catch fire, it's that they aren't self-fueling,

Was High-tech labs video of one being punctured not self-fueling?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Was High-tech labs video of one being punctured not self-fueling?

No. Self-fueling fires are near explosive. He even states that he could suffocate the fire.

Search for a puncture test on 3.7V chemistry. The difference is quite marked.