Woolval
New Member
Sorry Chris, just saw this today (2-6-24 6:36AM) Yes, he did run the 4 wire #6. I have the bare copper wire connected to the 6000XP PE lugs.
EG4 6000XP Neutral-Ground Bonding
- Thread starter HighTechLab
- Start date
mmmmmdonuts
New Member
I saw this was verified as true but I want to verify if charging the batteries with the mppt in the 6000xp this is also true.
Robkh
New Member
Planning totally off grid EV charging and 240V supply to pool heater.
Two EG4 6000XP in parallel to two EG4 PowerPro batteries for 50A 240V supply to an off-grid service panel - grounded to earth ground via continuous 6g copper wire attached to two 8 ft pounded into dirt earth-ground.
There will be NO charging of this system from my house electrical - will only have solar charging (Phoenix, AZ).
I will go to setting #26 in the 6000XP and enable the ground neutral bond.
If I wire a Tesla charger from the off grid service panel, will the Tesla charger show the infamous blinking red error light?
Any experience with this?
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I do not have experience with the tesla charger but I do know it has circuitry the checks for the NG bond. As far as I know it should work with your set up.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Old thread but someone revived it and I saw this post so I'm going to input on the subject.
Double bond in an RV could be deadly as it will lead to hot skin.
I know firsthand with my work trailer 20 some years ago. Stationary application it usually isn't a big deal although in years past someone carrying a metal cased power tool plugged into an extension cord could be found later on the damp ground dead.
My suggestion to anyone using an inverter that does not dynamically bond when under inverter power or does not desire a dynamically bonded inverter is to use a bonding plug that is a receptacle with N-G bonded on the male end of the RV cord. One could even use a dummy receptacle box like this 50A box where it is permanently mounted and the cord plugged into it. Only connection internally would be N to G.
or if the cord is removeable NEMA L5-30R then purchase an end like that one and internally bond N and G.
If done this way, if switching between inverter, shore power or generator, there should not be a problem.
HighTechLab
AKA Dexter - CTO of Current Connected, LLC
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Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Bonding plugs have been used in the RV world with generators for a long time. I see no difference when it comes to inverters, it is a power generating device.
In the RV world, it is expected if one is using a power source other than shore power, the user is expected to know how N-G bonding for the generator is done and take appropriate steps to ensure a bond exists when not on shore power.
The receptacle increases the likelihood of RV users remembering. When disconnecting from shore power, the cord is plugged in so the N-G bond will always exist when the inverter is turned on. The NEMA L5 is the same, when disconnecting the cord from a NEMA L5 receptacle after using shore power, the NEMA L5 female end is installed. The inverter will be bonded when it is turned on.
mmmmmdonuts
New Member
I traditionally use bonding plugs on the generator as well. It would be great if the 6000xp had an option like this: 1) incoming AC power detected removed bonding wire. 2) No AC input bond the neutral and ground.
To me it would be a simple software fix.
To me it would be a simple software fix.
ScrotpusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
What about a hard wired ground and a 50 amp 3 prong plug? Hard wired ground and 240v 2 hots and a neutral in the plug? Then just leave the bond setting open in the 6000xp.
Seems to be a simple solution to me. Could put the ground on a big clamp.
I think read in the manual, that there is always a pass through neutral.
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Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
HighCountry
New Member
Little off subject matter but on topic... Have totally off grid setup - never getting grid power either. Have 1 EG4 6000XP unit that's wired to a main breaker - not bonded. If using the internal bonding setting enabled, do I need earth ground for the inverter? Assume that is the case. Also, have solar panels earth grounded. Can I use the ground from the panels to ground the EG4 6000XP? The more I read about this the more it seems arcane! A little clarification would be super as most information on solar seems to forget about the folks that are completely new to this all.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Start with Filter Guy's papers in resources. https://diysolarforum.com/resources/grounding-made-simpler-part-1-ac-houshold-grounding.157/ Hit the download button upper right hand corner.
In your case off grid, I would disable bonding in the inverter, install a grounding electrode at the main breaker panel fed directly by the inverter and bond N-G there. I would remove the ground electrode at the panels and run a EGC from panel frames back to system N-G bond.
The reason for N-G bond at the main panel is if a generator is used that does not bond N-G, you have a bond in place. You could leave the current bond in the inverter in place instead of bonding at the main breaker panel. I would remove the ground electrode at the panels and install one at the inverter/main panel. If you do use a generator that is not bonded, you will have to use a bonding plug or jumper N to G in the panel.
EG4TechSolutionsTeam
Online Support for EG4 Electronics
An earth ground would be recommended. I would definitely check out the thread that ZWY sent as it has helpful diagrams for this.
HighCountry
New Member
Read through Filter Guy's paper... Still a bit confused here as it relates to the EG4 6000XP.
I contacted EG4 directly and they replied: "the inverter housing itself doesn't need to be grounded, but there is a ground bus bar in the cabinet labeled PE. That's going to be for your A/C inputs/Output like your GEN/GRID/LOAD Input/Output locations. Each one of those connections made will need four wires L1, L2, a Neutral, and a Ground." And that, "if you do not ground the inverter, that the ground should be made at your load panel, and then connected to the ground bus in your inverter."
This being said, let's say that the main breaker panel is earth grounded (then ground to inverter from panel) what should the setting for the EG4 6000XP internal bonding be - Enabled or disabled? My thought - it should be enabled and the panel not bond at N-G.
I contacted EG4 directly and they replied: "the inverter housing itself doesn't need to be grounded, but there is a ground bus bar in the cabinet labeled PE. That's going to be for your A/C inputs/Output like your GEN/GRID/LOAD Input/Output locations. Each one of those connections made will need four wires L1, L2, a Neutral, and a Ground." And that, "if you do not ground the inverter, that the ground should be made at your load panel, and then connected to the ground bus in your inverter."
This being said, let's say that the main breaker panel is earth grounded (then ground to inverter from panel) what should the setting for the EG4 6000XP internal bonding be - Enabled or disabled? My thought - it should be enabled and the panel not bond at N-G.
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EG4TechSolutionsTeam
Online Support for EG4 Electronics
If you have a neutral-ground bond in the main panel, you would want it disabled. However, if not, you would want it enabled.
HighCountry
New Member
Ok. Which is the preferred method? Let's assume in future that a generator is added (non N-G bond) would it matter where the bond takes place?
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FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I would do this:
Note that the grounding on the frames of the panels will depend on the mounting system.
Note that the grounding on the frames of the panels will depend on the mounting system.
HighCountry
New Member
Agree bonding should be in breaker panel not internally. EG4 6000XP default setting internal bonding is enabled, thus need to change setting 26 to disabled.
The panels are built on wood adjustable mounts exactly like this:
Panels are ground from unistrut to unistrut then to breaker. Assume that's fine? Or best to go panel to panel as you illustrated? Also, we installed a grounding rod at the solar panel location - needed?
The panels are built on wood adjustable mounts exactly like this:
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FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
The anodization and aluminum oxide are both insulators so the set-up with the washers holding the panels down may not have good electrical contact with the frames. If the grounding is to be to code there should be a commercial grounding lug bolted to each panel and a single wire going from lug to lug.
Actually, that is allowed, but not recommended. I would even say it is discouraged.
The grounding wire that connects the strut and panels together should be run back to the same grounding system of the house.
When there are two ground rods it can actually cause problems rather than solve problems.
You may want to review this resource:
Grounding Made simpler - Part 3: Solar Panels
To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...
diysolarforum.com
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Earth grounded is not N-G bonded, so some clarification is needed.
Ground electrode driven at main panel and bond N-G at that panel is what is referred to when N-G bonding in a stationary application. If a rod is driven into earth at that panel without any connection between N and G, then the panel is just earthed and not bonded.
Disable internal bonding. You have the ground electrode at the main panel, this is where you should also bond N-G.
Internal N-G bond in this inverter is for a mobile application that would never be plugged into shore power and would not have a ground electrode.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
If N-G bond is in the main panel, then the generator should be unbonded.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
The panel clamps you are using are not rated for bonding purposes. You would need to use clamps that have a point that dig into the frame thru the anodizing.
My clamps do have that point but I also added lugs and wire as shown in this part of my video.
HighCountry
New Member
Fair enough.. Makes sense to not have grounding rod at solar panels and run ground wire to the main breaker. Assume I run bare copper panel to panel then run THWN-2 (going into conduit underground) to main breaker. Recommended copper wire size for panel to panel grounding?
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
6AWG is required. I used these lugs screwed to frames using stainless screws. The lug prevents the corrosion between copper wire and aluminum frame. UL stamped too. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G392449/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&qty=3
HighCountry
New Member
Here is what I put together from everything mentioned... Sorry for the blurry image, unable to upload the original as it's "too large"
NOTE: Only change I made was for the L1 & L2 which is 8/3 wire not 10/3.
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