Half price electric cars

Ampster said:

Exactly as you point out the fundamental technology has been around for over a hundred years. It is the ability to store energy which has made it economically feasible.
Resistance to change takes odd turns. In the early days of Rockefeller when his fortune depended on kerosene which was used for lighting, Rockefeller was opposed to the electric light bulb. Ironically gasoline was a worthless byproduct of kerosene refining. The Internal Combustion Engine changed those economics.

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Change has to happen organically. Make a product better than what we have, people will want it.
Tell people they have no choice, that never works.
Right now, EV isn't always the better option. Maybe some day in the future it will be more often than not.

Ampster said:

Economics is why I love EVs. Sophistication is not important to me.

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As of yet, EV's just don't save their owners money except in a handful of short-trip only scenarios where you can always charge from home.

This will always be the case.

Checkthisout said:

Point being expanding a gas by adding thermal energy to it is how most electricity is generated.

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That is true but, but the global trend is embracing other alternatives. Even Texas, with unlimited natural gas has more wind generation than any other state. The driver there is economics.

Ampster said:

Economics is why I love EVs. Sophistication is not important to me.

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But they're not an economical purchase for many. That complicated engine costs a few thousand bucks. That EV battery alone costs 20 grand.

Ampster said:

That is true but, but the global trend is embracing other alternatives. Even Texas, with unlimited natural gas has more wind generation than any other state. The driver there is economics.

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Wind turbines harness kinetic energy from the wind which is the result of the heating of a gas. Unfortunately you cannot control when the heating of that gas so it's output is variable.

Windmills were used to harness energy before gasoline cars were invented and are another example of going backwards while claiming to actually be more sophisticated.

I'm not against wind power or electric cars but claiming that gasoline powered cars with piston engines are the stuff of Cavemen is a bit of a reach.

There is a reason this company is going out of business. Electric cars still do not present a good blend of economics and practicality to most users.

Tulex said:

Change has to happen organically. Make a product better than what we have, people will want it.
Tell people they have no choice, that never works.
Right now, EV isn't always the better option. Maybe some day in the future it will be more often than not.

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Yup!

I just spent good money on a new little SUV that has 4wd, lots of options and gets good fuel mileage.

The next option was a Tesla model 3 with Front Wheel Drive for $7000.00 more and half the options. Add in another $2000.00 bucks for a home charger and the fact that I cannot take it to any of the places I recreate as the batteries would be dead and I would have to stop for an hour at a charger.

Yeah...unfortunately they still don't yet make a lot of sense for me personally.

Ah, but what about as a battery, then does it make sense?

I'm in the hunt for a smaller EV cargo van. Something like a Ford Connect Transit for trips to the lumber store and dump. VW will have their Vibe out later this year, but I suppose it will be a pretty car in looks and price. My preference is a utility vehicle, not a showboat.

Gromike2 said:

I'm in the hunt for a smaller EV cargo van. Something like a Ford Connect Transit for trips to the lumber store and dump. VW will have their Vibe out later this year, but I suppose it will be a pretty car in looks and price. My preference is a utility vehicle, not a showboat.

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If they drop the price on these Fiskars even more, you may as well get one and go Mad Max with a cutting torch and turn it into the electric wheelbarrow you want.

Not like there will be a warranty to Void.

Similar here. Needing a utility 4x4/AWD Hatchback, some ground clearance, 200+ Range, $25k-$30k.
4x4/AWD is a must where I live.
Used Model Y, small lift kit works for me, Beefier wheels/tires.

The same day, article about Tesla sales....

Tesla sales slump

24k still too much
I want a cardboard box with 4 wheels and a $1000 motor
who needs more?

why did this fiskar company name themselves the same as the gardening tools company, wtf

SparkyJJO said:

But they're not an economical purchase for many. That complicated engine costs a few thousand bucks. That EV battery alone costs 20 grand.

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Yea the irony with the EVs is it is more simple to build yet they over computerize everything to hell and make it 2000x worse to repair

Checkthisout said:

Yup!

I just spent good money on a new little SUV that has 4wd, lots of options and gets good fuel mileage.

The next option was a Tesla model 3 with Front Wheel Drive for $7000.00 more and half the options. Add in another $2000.00 bucks for a home charger and the fact that I cannot take it to any of the places I recreate as the batteries would be dead and I would have to stop for an hour at a charger.

Yeah...unfortunately they still don't yet make a lot of sense for me personally.

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1200 of the charger install is tax credit...

Checkthisout said:

EV's just don't save their owners money except in a handful of short-trip only scenarios

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I have taken one cross country trip an several dozen trips up and down the California Coast in eight years and the cost per mile was significantly less than if I had done it it a gasoline car. I had one that had 115,000 miles on it and I never had to change the oil or do the brakes. I bought tires and two 12 volt batteries. I do not know where you are getting your numbers but that has not been my experience. I am not trying to change your mind, I just want other readers to see another viewpoint so they can make up their mind based on realistic assumptions.

One of the reasons I purchased my EV is that, combined with solar, I will always be able to get some level of powered vehicle. You know in mini SHTF scenarios. Like when Sandy happened here in the northeast, and you couldn't get gas for like 2 weeks, and people were fist fighting at gas pumps, etc.

Tulex said:

Change has to happen organically. Make a product better than what we have, people will want it.
Tell people they have no choice, that never works.
Right now, EV isn't always the better option. Maybe some day in the future it will be more often than not.

Click to expand...

The only reason that EV's are not the better option in all cases is because the whole Charging part of the roll out has been Bungled.
The Europeans have the right idea for the future. You drive the car up to a Charging station and a door opens up below the car and a device removes your dead battery pack and replaces it with a fully charged one. You are in and out within about 3 minutes.

No other system will work unless charging times drop down to under 10 Minutes.
I was listening to some analysis on the current disaster with charging stations and what could be the best outcome with the current tech.
If we built out the system using the current system the numbers showed that we would need so many charging stations in a large city that it would be impossible to accomplish it. Also the lost Productivity of people waiting to get a charge would cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Basically it just cannot work!

In order for EV's to make the next leap the Charging time has to decrease to under 10 Minutes or we change the system completely and start making vehicles with Packs that can be removed and replaced in under 5 minutes. In both cases it still requires that lot more charging stations have to be built and standards on Battery pack charging systems have to be set.

gotbeans said:

why did this fiskar company name themselves the same as the gardening tools company

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It was the ego of designer, Henrik Fisker that put his name on it twice. The first one failed. He talked the Chinese into another venture.

I would not mind at all an EV that was very basic and would drive me to town 35 miles away once a month for groceries. I could easily charge it from solar in that time. It would have to retail for less than $10,000 new. Maybe I can find one of these Fiskers at fire sale price? If someone sees them going for that price let me know.

robby said:

The only reason that EV's are not the better option in all cases is because the whole Charging part of the roll out has been Bungled.
The Europeans have the right idea for the future. You drive the car up to a Charging station and a door opens up below the car and a device removes your dead battery pack and replaces it with a fully charged one. You are in and out within about 3 minutes.

No other system will work unless charging times drop down to under 10 Minutes.
I was listening to some analysis on the current disaster with charging stations and what could be the best outcome with the current tech.
If we built out the system using the current system the numbers showed that we would need so many charging stations in a large city that it would be impossible to accomplish it. Also the lost Productivity of people waiting to get a charge would cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Basically it just cannot work!

In order for EV's to make the next leap the Charging time has to decrease to under 10 Minutes or we change the system completely and start making vehicles with Packs that can be removed and replaced in under 5 minutes. In both cases it still requires that lot more charging stations have to be built and standards on Battery packs have to be set.

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Pure BS. Some EVs can already get to 80% charge in 20 minutes on high speed chargers.

But, the truth is, most car drivers park their car in a garage every night and go to a gas station once or twice a week. If 20 minutes at a charger is too inconvenient, plug the car in at home.

robby said:

The only reason that EV's are not the better option in all cases is because the whole Charging part of the roll out has been Bungled.
The Europeans have the right idea for the future. You drive the car up to a Charging station and a door opens up below the car and a device removes your dead battery pack and replaces it with a fully charged one. You are in and out within about 3 minutes.

No other system will work unless charging times drop down to under 10 Minutes.
I was listening to some analysis on the current disaster with charging stations and what could be the best outcome with the current tech.
If we built out the system using the current system the numbers showed that we would need so many charging stations in a large city that it would be impossible to accomplish it. Also the lost Productivity of people waiting to get a charge would cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Basically it just cannot work!

In order for EV's to make the next leap the Charging time has to decrease to under 10 Minutes or we change the system completely and start making vehicles with Packs that can be removed and replaced in under 5 minutes. In both cases it still requires that lot more charging stations have to be built and standards on Battery packs have to be set.

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Stored energy in general is the issue. I have a truck that had sat for over a year. Put the battery in that I had taken out, cranked it over, and it started up. I can leave my car sitting outside in below zero weather for weeks and go out and start it right up. Can't do those things with an EV