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Let's fight about aluminum wire!

Mattb4 said:
Aluminum wire or copper wire. Just no copper clad aluminum wire. History has shown why that is a bad idea. Amazing that the idea has came back around after so many electrical fires were caused by CCA.
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CCA is a fine alternative to aluminum wire. It meets all NEC codes, and as long as it is sized as ALUMINUM, not copper ampacity, it works great.
My condo was built in the early 80’s, 100% aluminum and CCA throughout. And aside from some Sheetrock issues, has been flawless…

Is it far more fragile when rewiring? Yup… best used as a one run, rip out if changes are needed.

Wire nuts cut through the copper plate, so, mucking about is unwise…

I actually did a walkthrough in a major CCA plant
 
hwy17 said:
I'm guessing AL devices and splices were more common in the era when it was popular.
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No, they weren't, and therein lies the problem.

At least for outlets and the like.
I was able to get setscrew splices, connected to an extension of copper to put outlet behind new stove location.
Plenty of things dual rated now.

QO 30A breaker for 14A (!) to 30A aluminum



hwy17 said:
No question that the drop out of popularity and industry support has made it a non option for now. Small aluminum wire isn't even cheaper than copper now, it's a hard to find specialty product for anti theft use in construction.
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MTM98290 said:
Aluminum doesn't seem worth the extra trouble for a small cost savinga, at least for somebody not in the trade. I'm sure I can be done correctly, but for me saving money on wire is not worth the tradeoff of worrying.
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Likely a very reasonable choice for longer outdoor runs. Ideally underground where it won't flex.
If only it terminated in a pull box away from the house, then no problem at all.
It is used for PG&E's service drop to my house. Wrapped around steel messenger wire (do they really use steel for neutral? Didn't look like there was another metal there.)

Supervstech said:
Is it far more fragile when rewiring? Yup… best used as a one run, rip out if changes are needed.
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What does That! cost do do?!
In the walls of a condo ...
 
Supervstech said:
CCA is a fine alternative to aluminum wire. It meets all NEC codes, and as long as it is sized as ALUMINUM, not copper ampacity, it works great.
My condo was built in the early 80’s, 100% aluminum and CCA throughout. And aside from some Sheetrock issues, has been flawless…

Is it far more fragile when rewiring? Yup… best used as a one run, rip out if changes are needed.

Wire nuts cut through the copper plate, so, mucking about is unwise…

I actually did a walkthrough in a major CCA plant
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Copper and aluminum have different properties and respond differently to how they carry electrical loads. It is just unsafe to clad aluminum with copper pretending you have a solid copper conductor and than use that as a basis for rating it. So no it is not a fine alternative to either copper or aluminum wire. Does it work? Yes but a lot of stuff works that in hindsight you wish you avoided.

If people want to use it fine. But I will never use it for any place I live in.
 
Oh yeah, if there isn’t extra conductor length in the box to replace an outlet, it’s no fun.

And no way I would use a wago on the wire. It is like dealing with tinsel strength wise.

Just fine for ovens and dryers where #8 is the minimum size, but working with #12 or god forbid #14(which should be illegal!) manipulating the wires is like wet clay, there is no rigidity to it, no plasticity.
It is like working with a bent paperclip, the wire just brakes when you twist it, it breaks if it is wrapped around a screw, it breaks when you twist too hard with a wire nut…

I have several worn out receptacles in the house, and we just don’t use those outlets. Replacing them requires 15$ outlets with screw plates. Just too fragile to wrap around the screw, and get it tight.

CCA is fine when installed… it is just a pain if disturbed.

A far cry better than the straight aluminum from the 70’s that burned down all the homes.

I also frequently run into houses from then that still have aluminum wiring throughout. Likely still standing because of all the cfl and LED lighting reducing the ampdraw through them…
 
Hedges said:
Wrapped around steel messenger wire (do they really use steel for neutral? Didn't look like there was another metal there.)
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I think there's gotta be some aluminum somehow. Aluminum clad steel if that existed or aluminum wrapped around steel.
 
Supervstech said:
Oh yeah, if there isn’t extra conductor length in the box to replace an outlet, it’s no fun.

And no way I would use a wago on the wire. It is like dealing with tinsel strength wise.

Just fine for ovens and dryers where #8 is the minimum size, but working with #12 or god forbid #14(which should be illegal!) manipulating the wires is like wet clay, there is no rigidity to it, no plasticity.
It is like working with a bent paperclip, the wire just brakes when you twist it, it breaks if it is wrapped around a screw, it breaks when you twist too hard with a wire nut…

I have several worn out receptacles in the house, and we just don’t use those outlets. Replacing them requires 15$ outlets with screw plates. Just too fragile to wrap around the screw, and get it tight.

CCA is fine when installed… it is just a pain if disturbed.

A far cry better than the straight aluminum from the 70’s that burned down all the homes.

I also frequently run into houses from then that still have aluminum wiring throughout. Likely still standing because of all the cfl and LED lighting reducing the ampdraw through them…
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I remember those days. All aluminum wire with a Federal Pacific stab lock breakers that wouldn't trip! Fire waiting to happen
 
Partimewages said:
I remember those days. All aluminum wire with a Federal Pacific stab lock breakers that wouldn't trip! Fire waiting to happen
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Or would just loosen up and fall out...
My parents' old house had a FP sub and it was a regular thing to hear the panel buzzing and need a breaker pushed back or the lug tightened. We replaced it!
 
My take on aluminum for electrical installations is it is fine for busbars and service entrance conductors if larger than 1/0. Worked in the aluminum industry for a 10 year stretch and even the engineers that developed the specifications of use for aluminum, would not use aluminum of any type in ther own homes.
Federal Pacific and the Zinco Panels gave me a lot of extra income in the 1990's, and service panel upgrades were bread and butter easy ($$$$)! Did I say I really like those brands? They were good for me, but not my customers!
I liked the aluminum conductors for the service work it brought, but I would never use aluminum for branch circuits.
 
cardboardboxprocessor said:
The timeless debate whether aluminum is good or bad. Of course old aluminum we all know is bad but newer alloys are supposedly not. The feeder lines in my house and all my main panels for my attached . The feeder lines in my house are aluminum.

Is there any specific reason I should not use aluminum wire of the appropriate gauge (which is bigger than copper And it's cheap enough that I could even go an extra gauge above that to prevent thermal expansion from being too much) for the main run from the solar panels combiner box to the inverter box?

If this is possible are there any extra precautions to take besides the special grease that prevents oxidation. Can I not crimp onto aluminum must it feed directly into the aluminum rated breaker? I see most people crimp on little tabs on the end of copper wire Just curious if it is different for aluminum I have not seen that anywhere.
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As I once said in one of my videos, "Some people buy $8 coffee's and some buy copper".

Entrance cable, I might use aluminum. Anything else is copper. Even the plumbing in my house and shop are copper. The airlines in my shop are 1 inch copper.

This is the shop heating system, more copper. I love copper.

Boiler room.jpg
 
I've had bad experiences with Al wire that caused some sleepless nights for several of the reasons already listed. Maybe the new alloys are far better, maybe not.
The peace of mind copper gives me is worth the price.
 
Zwy said:
As I once said in one of my videos, "Some people buy $8 coffee's and some buy copper".

Entrance cable, I might use aluminum. Anything else is copper. Even the plumbing in my house and shop are copper. The airlines in my shop are 1 inch copper.

This is the shop heating system, more copper. I love copper.

View attachment 210460
Click to expand...
Nice setup
 
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Zwy said:
As I once said in one of my videos, "Some people buy $8 coffee's and some buy copper".

Entrance cable, I might use aluminum. Anything else is copper. Even the plumbing in my house and shop are copper. The airlines in my shop are 1 inch copper.

This is the shop heating system, more copper. I love copper.

View attachment 210460
Click to expand...
Copper is great for boilers and plumbing.
But is sure is expensive to repair.

I have been on SOOOO many boiler jobs where the copper is eaten with holes throughout.
 
And copper coils in hvac was ok in the beginning when thick tubing was used, but when epa started requiring efficient standards, coils were just too thin, and they all failed.

Aluminum lasts. It is superior to copper in wet environments. It has points of failure, but better than copper when done right.

It just has to have more surface area to be as efficient with heat transfer.
 
The first home my wife and I owned was a mobile home. It had aluminum wiring feeding the thing and in the home too from what I can remember.

It burned to the ground taking all of our belongs with it.

I am not a fan of aluminum wiring :(

All of my homes since then have had copper and if anything wasn't copper I redid it with copper. I hope to not repeat past problems....
 
Oh and before anyone says it wasn't the aluminum wiring I had to replace the aforementioned wiring from corroding and losing connection in places at times. I am not going to argue its pros and cons since I'm not an expert in the field. I'm just stating why I feel the way I do and why I won't use the stuff EVER.
 
Crowz said:
The first home my wife and I owned was a mobile home. It had aluminum wiring feeding the thing and in the home too from what I can remember.

It burned to the ground taking all of our belongs with it.

I am not a fan of aluminum wiring :(

All of my homes since then have had copper and if anything wasn't copper I redid it with copper. I hope to not repeat past problems....
Click to expand...
Most mobile home wiring is push in outlets and switches without boxes...
Horrid setup.
Worst case for aluminum use for sure!
 
Supervstech said:
Not even in the range feed? Or to the hvac?
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So, I was pretty sad with my wiring when I discovered that it looked to be aluminum. It turns out it is 1930's pretinned copper. I found this out after changing some outlets and switches.

The range line seems to be the same pre tinned copper tho I have not messed with that line/ scratched it to make a judgement since I do not use it (gas stove). In the breaker panel it looks like pre tinned copper. Certainly the same time frame as the other pre tinned circuits.

Hvac is totally redone THHN.
 
From a European perspective: what's aluminium wire?
On a serious note, it's used on power distribution, but I've never seen any aluminium wire used in residential in any of the EU countries I've been/lived in.
 
My 1942 Oakland house had copper knob & tube with fuses.
Updated to a fancy-schmancy Federal 100A breaker panel and copper in BX ca. 1960.
Has been trouble free, but of course I can't leave it alone. Almost done with my 200A upgrade to Square-D QO.

AFCI breakers only up to 20A in QO series, so I'll be installing those. At least higher amperage circuits are all point-to-point.

I would like all copper. QO breaker panels 125A and up have copper busbars/fingers for plug-on breakers (100A and below is aluminum), but neutral busbar and lugs are aluminum (tinned). Some option for some/all copper hardware is mentioned.
 
Oh, im in an attic right now working on the hvac in a pre 1920 house, and this stuff is all over the place... id love to see how aluminum wiri g looks in a hundred years...
 

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