Where to buy LFP cells in Japan?

Hey guys. First post.

I'm rebuilding a used Toyota COMS (ToyoBody) EV. Upgrading the 6 lead acid batteries to lithium. 72v system. Looking at a JK-B2A24S20P BMS. That a good one?

Anyway, so far I think the EVE 100ah 3.2v LF100LA cells may be a good bet to replace the six dead Panasonic EC-EV600D5A lead acid batteries in my EV.

I've got a price of $24 each from Jenny Wu at Docan for 26 cells. But shipping is $455 plus a 5% paypal fee. So it will be $1133 total she says. Is that a good price?

I would have thought it would be less shipping from China to Japan, no?

So I'm looking for other sources before ordering today from her if anyone has any recommendations.

What are the other sources you all recommend other than Docan? Is there a list? I'm not seeing it yet so far if there is, but I'll keep reading.

Side note: I also just got a 2014 Nissan Leaf and replaced the battery pack with a larger one. Fun project and successful thanks to Dala.

I'll also be designing a solar system for my house next so will be here a lot reading and learning.

Thanks guys!

Rational said:

Hey guys. First post.

I'm rebuilding a used Toyota COMS (ToyoBody) EV. Upgrading the 6 lead acid batteries to lithium. 72v system. Looking at a JK-B2A24S20P BMS. That a good one?

Anyway, so far I think the EVE 100ah 3.2v LF100LA cells may be a good bet to replace the six dead Panasonic EC-EV600D5A lead acid batteries in my EV.

I've got a price of $24 each from Jenny Wu at Docan for 26 cells. But shipping is $455 plus a 5% paypal fee. So it will be $1133 total she says. Is that a good price?

I would have thought it would be less shipping from China to Japan, no?

So I'm looking for other sources before ordering today from her if anyone has any recommendations.

What are the other sources you all recommend other than Docan? Is there a list? I'm not seeing it yet so far if there is, but I'll keep reading.

Side note: I also just got a 2014 Nissan Leaf and replaced the battery pack with a larger one. Fun project and successful thanks to Dala.

I'll also be designing a solar system for my house next so will be here a lot reading and learning.

Thanks guys!

Click to expand...

@Daddy Tanuki any suggestions?

Nobodybusiness said:

@Daddy Tanuki any suggestions?

Click to expand...

what terms are the shipping? door to door, CIF? FOB? , and who does the paperwork? if they are doing door to door with them doing all the paperwork on the importation thats not bad actually. I paid about 300 to ship a pallet of the winstons CIF to yokohama but I did all the importation and tax paperwork, picked up at wharehouse took to inspection and then delivered to my own location. so it really depends upon how they are doing the shipping.

and in a mobile application you are on the correct path with smaller cells. I would really look at the nylon cased cells, or keep the total cell capacity at 200 aH or less treat it the same way the Yacht owners do it in the boating industry. the larger lithium cells (anything above 200) do not have the internal support for bouncing around which tends to cause major issues. so I would go with a 180 or 200 amp hour at max, that or lots of little cells to get the capacity you want.

what is the port of entry? Osaka? Nagoya or tokyo/yokohama?

Daddy Tanuki said:

what terms are the shipping? door to door, CIF? FOB? , and who does the paperwork? if they are doing door to door with them doing all the paperwork on the importation thats not bad actually. I paid about 300 to ship a pallet of the winstons CIF to yokohama but I did all the importation and tax paperwork, picked up at wharehouse took to inspection and then delivered to my own location. so it really depends upon how they are doing the shipping.

and in a mobile application you are on the correct path with smaller cells. I would really look at the nylon cased cells, or keep the total cell capacity at 200 aH or less treat it the same way the Yacht owners do it in the boating industry. the larger lithium cells (anything above 200) do not have the internal support for bouncing around which tends to cause major issues. so I would go with a 180 or 200 amp hour at max, that or lots of little cells to get the capacity you want.

what is the port of entry? Osaka? Nagoya or tokyo/yokohama?

Click to expand...

Hey Daddy,
Thanks for the reply. I've been reading a few of your posts in other threads and love your straight shooter stance. We think very much alike. I look forward to talking more about Japan with you when we can.

I'm in Okinawa. Been here since '88. Saw the decline coming to the states way back then. Glad I did and got away then. Anyway, that's a topic for another day.

As for my little project here, I greatly appreciate all the help I can get from you and the community here.

Turns out that the EVE 100ah 3.2v LF100LA cells from Jenny at Docan are 118mm in height but that doesn't account for the M6 studs. So they will be too tall for my battery compartment height limits after all.

The stock batteries I have in the EV now are Panasonic EC-FV60AJ5B1 . Qty of 6. Dimensions are 116mm wide x 175mm tall x 385mm long. SUPER heavy lead acid.

But they are laid on their sides in the EV. So the actual height I have to work with under the floor is only that 116mm. 118 is close enough.



The battery space I have to work with is limited in this EV. It's only two rectangular areas of 39.5cmx59.5cm. Pictured above.

Is there by chance a listing of all brands' cell dimensions easily searchable? That would make this whole search easier at least to find a workable cell.


Actually... I just did a search on 'lifepo4 118mm" and discovered 'blade batteries'.... Interesting. Dimensions are 21*574*118mm .

They might fit better actually. But they're like 184ah. I wonder what kind of range I'd get with 184ah for a 950lb car that has a 5Kw motor?

Searching further, I've found these cells here at alibaba:


According to the checkout cart, it seems they want about $1204 for 26 cells delivered. That's a great price. ... If I can trust them. How to confirm? What's the success rate with users here buying from alibaba? I order a ton from aliexpress, but never tried alibaba yet. Might be worth risking a purchase?

Edit 2: Just got an email reply with a quote of:
Svolt 184Ah (with busbar/stud/black support): USD29.5/pc
DDP shipping cost by air to Japen for 26pcs: USD747
So total cost 26x$29.5+$747=USD1514

Wonder if I should do the air shipping for an extra $300?

Also, anyone else tried these blade type cells I wonder? I'm not finding many posts where people use them yet much it seems. Sad as they look like a better fit in the floor of EVs. It's also nice that they have the posts on the ends. Positive on one end and negative on the other. So perhaps even a safer design. I wonder why they haven't caught on much yet?

Anyway, that's where I'm at so far in my search today. Thank you for all input. It really helps.

Edit: Oh to answer your specific questions, I'm trying to get them shipped direct to my door. They do all the paperwork. I have no idea how to do it. But I don't mind learning if it'll save a ton and I can leverage that knowledge for future purchases.

Rational said:

But they're like 184ah. I wonder what kind of range I'd get with 184ah for a 950lb car that has a 5Kw motor?

Click to expand...

Your current lead acids come back as being 54AH if my search is correct, so just on the numbers your range should increase nearly 4 fold. But likely to be more as lead acid has a lot less usable SOC range than LFP.

For static storage I upgraded from lead acid gels to LFP a few months ago. On the lead acid I could only use 50% of the rated 17kwh, with the LFP I have used 80% of the 32kwh and could use more. The LFP 32kwh takes up less space then the Gel 17kwh and weights less too.

kommando said:

Your current lead acids come back as being 54AH if my search is correct, so just on the numbers your range should increase nearly 4 fold. But likely to be more as lead acid has a lot less usable SOC range than LFP.

For static storage I upgraded from lead acid gels to LFP a few months ago. On the lead acid I could only use 50% of the rated 17kwh, with the LFP I have used 80% of the 32kwh and could use more. The LFP 32kwh takes up less space then the Gel 17kwh and weights less too.

Click to expand...

Oh, that makes sense now that I think about it. The original specs for the ECOMS said it was rated for 50 kilometer range with a top speed of 60 kph. So if 4x of that perhaps around 200km? But they would weigh 150lbs less or so I believe. So a full person less in weight carried. So perhaps even 5x? But then also like you pointed out the usable range on lead acid is less. So perhaps even 5.5x best case.

That would be fantastic if so. Thank you.

Might be nice getting 250-275km range on it. Cool.

The only downside of LFP compared to Lead Acid is voltage bounce which is really not a problem if you know about it. With Lead acid as you grind to a halt with low voltage and stop by turning off and waiting the voltage will recover or bounce back. This will then get you going again for a short distance. LFP has much less bounce back so once its out its out.

This is bring back memories of my first job as a milkman's mate on electric floats back in the 70's.


The last bit of the drive back to the depot at the end of the shift was a steep hill, to get up it you stopped at the bottom of the hill for 15 mins before attempting the climb.

kommando said:

The only downside of LFP compared to Lead Acid is voltage bounce which is really not a problem if you know about it. With Lead acid as you grind to a halt with low voltage and stop by turning off and waiting the voltage will recover or bounce back. This will then get you going again for a short distance. LFP has much less bounce back so once its out its out.

This is bring back memories of my first job as a milkman's mate on electric floats back in the 70's.

Milk float - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The last bit of the drive back to the depot at the end of the shift was a steep hill, to get up it you stopped at the bottom of the hill for 15 mins before attempting the climb.

Click to expand...

Very interesting times back then to have to do that I bet!

It's nice to see battery technology finally progressing a bit. But I sense it's being held back a lot from what it could be.

Update on the alibaba quotation. His email quote came back at $1514 delivered with $747 of that being air shipping.
So I asked him why it was higher than the alibaba.com website checkout quote of $1205 ($793 for the cells and $377 for shipping.)

His reply was,
"Alibaba logistics cannot deliver the batteries to Japen.
The shipping cost in alibaba is by sea, not by air."

This sound legit? Really? Alibaba logistics can't deliver batteries to Japan? I wouldn't think so...
By sea sounds more like it.

Rational said:

Hey Daddy,

I'm in Okinawa. Been here since '88. Saw the decline coming to the states way back then. Glad I did and got away then. Anyway, that's a topic for another day.

Click to expand...

I left Oki in 92 for the last time. was at foster.

Rational said:

As for my little project here, I greatly appreciate all the help I can get from you and the community here.

Turns out that the EVE 100ah 3.2v LF100LA cells from Jenny at Docan are 118mm in height but that doesn't account for the M6 studs. So they will be too tall for my battery compartment height limits after all.

The stock batteries I have in the EV now are Panasonic EC-FV60AJ5B1 . Qty of 6. Dimensions are 116mm wide x 175mm tall x 385mm long. SUPER heavy lead acid.

But they are laid on their sides in the EV. So the actual height I have to work with under the floor is only that 116mm. 118 is close enough.

View attachment 223091

The battery space I have to work with is limited in this EV. It's only two rectangular areas of 39.5cmx59.5cm. Pictured above.

Click to expand...

lithium can lay on their side, but only the narrow side, not the flat side sorry if that does not make sense. so if cell is 30 x 80 x 118 they can sit on the 30 face but cannot lay on the 80 face. the way the electrolyte sits in the jelly roll you would uncover some of the film but not others, by laying on the narrow face sideways all the wide sections of the film get electrolyte but its only a little at top, and you must use compression if you do this.

Rational said:

Is there by chance a listing of all brands' cell dimensions easily searchable? That would make this whole search easier at least to find a workable cell.

Click to expand...

no clue I am doing stationary offgrid cabin at fuji

Rational said:

Actually... I just did a search on 'lifepo4 118mm" and discovered 'blade batteries'.... Interesting. Dimensions are 21*574*118mm .

They might fit better actually. But they're like 184ah. I wonder what kind of range I'd get with 184ah for a 950lb car that has a 5Kw motor?

Searching further, I've found these cells here at alibaba:

Hot Sale Svolt Blade Cells 3.2v 184ah Lifepo4 Prismatic Blade Battery For Electric Vehicle - Buy Blade Battery svolt Battery svolt Blade Cells Product on Alibaba.com

Hot Sale Svolt Blade Cells 3.2v 184ah Lifepo4 Prismatic Blade Battery For Electric Vehicle - Buy Blade Battery svolt Battery svolt Blade Cells Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

According to the checkout cart, it seems they want about $1204 for 26 cells delivered. That's a great price. ... If I can trust them. How to confirm? What's the success rate with users here buying from alibaba? I order a ton from aliexpress, but never tried alibaba yet. Might be worth risking a purchase?

Edit 2: Just got an email reply with a quote of:
Svolt 184Ah (with busbar/stud/black support): USD29.5/pc
DDP shipping cost by air to Japen for 26pcs: USD747
So total cost 26x$29.5+$747=USD1514

Wonder if I should do the air shipping for an extra $300?

Also, anyone else tried these blade type cells I wonder? I'm not finding many posts where people use them yet much it seems. Sad as they look like a better fit in the floor of EVs. It's also nice that they have the posts on the ends. Positive on one end and negative on the other. So perhaps even a safer design. I wonder why they haven't caught on much yet?

Anyway, that's where I'm at so far in my search today. Thank you for all input. It really helps.

Edit: Oh to answer your specific questions, I'm trying to get them shipped direct to my door. They do all the paperwork. I have no idea how to do it. But I don't mind learning if it'll save a ton and I can leverage that knowledge for future purchases.

Click to expand...

direct to door thats a good price. I do mine CIF and then a JN friend who imports a lot of stuff does the paperwork for me. I run a fabrication/ships repair business and he runs a custom car shop so we trade favors back and forth. since we do the paperwork and pickup a full pallet of large cells like the 400aH winstons i bought are cheap for me to ship as its one pallet of cells only even though it weighs damn near 3/4 of a ton.

Rational said:

Very interesting times back then to have to do that I bet!

It's nice to see battery technology finally progressing a bit. But I sense it's being held back a lot from what it could be.

Update on the alibaba quotation. His email quote came back at $1514 delivered with $747 of that being air shipping.
So I asked him why it was higher than the alibaba.com website checkout quote of $1205 ($793 for the cells and $377 for shipping.)

His reply was,
"Alibaba logistics cannot deliver the batteries to Japen.
The shipping cost in alibaba is by sea, not by air."

This sound legit? Really? Alibaba logistics can't deliver batteries to Japan? I wouldn't think so...
By sea sounds more like it.

Click to expand...

take the options for sea shipping, air is not worth it. once they leave his hands it will be a minimum of 10 days even with airfreight. its only 12-20 for sea freight (this is tokyo narita/chiba vs port of yokohama, your times will be different.

Daddy Tanuki said:

take the options for sea shipping, air is not worth it. once they leave his hands it will be a minimum of 10 days even with airfreight. its only 12-20 for sea freight (this is tokyo narita/chiba vs port of yokohama, your times will be different.

Click to expand...

Thanks Daddy. I took the option for sea shipping today. You were right. Air was not worth it.

I just placed the order for qty 26 of these. $767 for the cells and $542 for sea DDP shipping. And a $48 surcharge by alibaba for the transaction. So $1348 total. I hope that's reasonable. $29.50 per cell for 186ah blade batteries? Seems like a good price to me from what I can find online.

Seems that alibaba also has "Trade assurance" on the order. Plus I have my CC protection.

I order a ton from aliexpress and they have been excellent for me. I only had one or two orders I had an issue with out of perhaps 70+ the last several years. And those two were nicely refunded.

So I hope to see the same from alibaba should there be an issue.

I've also just ordered a JK BMS from aliexpress to go along with it. This will be my first battery build so hope I chose a good one. It's got 2A balance charging on this one and up to 150A continuous.

Model is: JK-B2A24S15P

I watched a ton of reviews and these seem like a very solid choice.

Since my mini EV only has a 5000w motor on it, I believe that comes out to 70 amps max discharge output for a 72w pack. 5000w/72v=70A. So this is rated 2x over that. So plenty of headroom.

Now just to learn best safety practices and study up as much as I can until it arrives in about 3-4 weeks or so.

Rational said:

Side note: I also just got a 2014 Nissan Leaf and replaced the battery pack with a larger one. Fun project and successful thanks to Dala.

Click to expand...

Can you start another thread on your experience doing this?

I see older Nissan Leaf cars in good condition selling cheaply (less than $3000). Putting in a new and larger battery pack seems like a great way to get an inexpensive EV with good driving range. I’ve seen battery modules in the 70+kWh capacity advertised for ~$5-6000.

I'll try yes. Thanks for the interest. It might help many.

For now if anyone wants to join Dala's discord channel I've shared all my steps there when I did them.

I'd share the link if I knew how. But just search for it and you'll find it I'm sure.

Mostly because he is the one who open sourced the can-bridge software I needed and teaches as well as helps with anyone tackling a pack upgrade.

I got lucky with my leaf at only $550 USD. And $600 USD for the 30kWh replacement pack.

His software is free and the little can-bridge from aliexpress was like $18?

Hard part was just not having a lift to remove and replace the batteries easily. I did it with two car jacks, a palette and a palette jack. Not recommended! lol. But doable over a weekend if that's all you've got.