Chargery: AH measurements

Whoa, everyone to a neutral corner and take a breather!

I agree that the Chargery has deficiencies well noted all over the forum.

I am happy with my 16t just for cell level monitoring and balancing during charge only. I have never top or bottom balanced my 16 cell 60Ah fortune battery and the Chargery has kept it happy from day 1.

I don’t use LVD or HVD in my application and I understand my use case is unique perhaps. I did spend $20 for a Drok monitor for SOC and haven’t even bothered to hook it up. The inability of the Chargery to read amps in less than whole numbers does drive me crazy so I will add the Drok at some point.

Believe me I have gotten much less for much more money on many solar items purchased and considered the cost tuition. The Chargery has been an education as well but I am satisfied I got plenty of functionality for the price paid IMHO.

I recognize that people have a legitimate b!tch about the SOC issue so I am not arguing that at all. I just wanted to add one voice of a satisfied customer for MY application.

Cal said:

Please don't comment on something you have no knowledge of. I certainly did ask Jason if his message could be posted.

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hello,
i sent email to CAL at 16:09 on Sep. 24. please check the below picture.



Around 6 hours later, Cal reply me at 22:36 on Sep. 24, at this time, i went to bed, i don't check my email.



23 minutes later, cal posted my email at 10:59 pm on Sep. 24, within 23min, i cannot reply Cal, because i was sleeping.

Cal said:

I asked him but he didn't reply.

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yes, i did not reply, because i was sleeping, you hope i reply you within 23mintues, and in sleeping?

before our solutions are not tested or verified , i don't want to post here, thoughts and fact is diffrent, Thinking something over a thousand times is not as effective as actually doing it just once.
now we are solving the below questions.

• cell volage accuracy, researching rasons, and tesing new calibration method.
• charge current or discharge current accuracy, especially less than 1A. it is in testing, with 100A shunt, 0.3A is ok, with 300A shunt, 0.5A is OK, but need many test on many BMS, if it is ok only one BMS, the solution is not acceptabel.
• SOC accracy , depends on current and voltage accuracy, if voltage and current accracy is ok, SOC must be accurate, but the battery original Ah setting must be correct, or test battery capacity then modify the AH setting. BMS detect actual battery capacity according to discharge /charge current and time, NOT according to AH setting. if AH setting is wrong, even AH reading is correct on BMS, the SOC must be wrong.
• balancing time is too long, or balancing indicator (yellow mark) always gone, it is in solving, and finished testing, balancing will not stop, if cell capacity difference reach 5AH (for 280AH cell, means some cell capacity is 278AH, some cell capacity is 283AH), in 5 hours, all cell voltage will be resume balanced, if cell capacity difference reach 10AH (for 280AH cell, means 275AH minimum, 285Ah maximum) in 10 hours, all cell voltage will be resume balanced.

from oct. 1 to 8, We are in National day holiday, but i will visit here and reply all questions as soon as possible.

have a great day.

For completeness, here's a plot of the 100A Chargery BMS used in another RV. The red plot is Chargery current. The blue plot is my DIY Coulomb Counter. The Coulomb Counter has a granularity of 10 mA. Looking at the measured data, it appears Chargery 100A BMS has a current granularity of 100 mA. This test is using a BK 9110 power supply to charge the battery. The power supply is in constant current mode. PS current is digitally changed. There's a slight offset in time, caused by different start times of the two Arduino dataloggers.

Just like the 300A BMS any current less than 1A is recorded as zero.

x-axis is time in minutes
y-axis is charging current in amps



It would be great if Jason can get the 100A BMS working down to 200 mA.

I think you reversed the colors

This thread is tense but it is impressive to see Chargery is listening.

ArthurEld said:

This thread is tense but it is impressive to see Chargery is listening.

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I wouldn't call Chargery's listening impressive. They got caught doing a shitty design. Nothing commendable here. We expect to get current measurements between plus and minus 300A. The full scale. But now we find out they ignore an important section of the scale. They can't fix it. They can make it slightly better but that's it. Did I mention it's a bad design?

Cal said:

I wouldn't call Chargery's listening impressive. They got caught doing a shitty design. Nothing commendable here. We expect to get current measurements between plus and minus 300A. The full scale. But now we find out they ignore an important section of the scale. They can't fix it. They can make it slightly better but that's it. Did I mention it's a bad design?

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I see all of the debugging going on around here and I think the companies that make the parts would be smart to pay attention. You guys are working for free.
I am far from an expert but from what I read Chargery is pretty good for the price. Especially for high amps.
Some things aren't right but people who get it set up well seem to have a solid dependable system.
Based on my total of about 2 months of research, I see problems with all of the BMSs in this price range. I know there are people here that have been doing this for over 10 years. And I probably sound ignorant opening my mouth with only 2 months of reading and no hands on. But I am determined to learn.
The reason I searched and found this thread is because I saw in the new manual that it is possible to compare cell internal resistance with this BMS.
It says that the numbers aren't very accurate but for comparison it is easy to spot a bad cell. I am curious because the other ways people recommend seem complicated and time consuming.
Anyway, it is amusing for me to see this stuff evolving. I see a lot of expensive mistakes. I'm sure I'll have plenty when I actually do something but I am digging through this info trying to avoid some mistakes.

ArthurEld said:

I am far from an expert but from what I read Chargery is pretty good for the price. Especially for high amps.

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If the battery disconnects are external to the BMS then 'the sky's the limit' for high amps. I like that approach and that's my reason for purchasing Chargery. I don't want the disconnect fets to conduct the 160A the microwave uses. The next largest load in my motor home is the forced air heater motor at 7A. A 20A disconnect would work well for loads other than the microwave.

I would choose Electrodacus if I were to do it over. Electrodacus, as well uses external disconnects. Some may think it's too complicated, but "complicated" comes down to more options for the user to mold the BMS to fit the users situation. What Electrodacus research have you come up with?

I think the Electrodacus is an excellent product but isn't it also limited to 24 volts. I wish Dacain was motivated to make money because he really makes a good product from all reviews.

Cal said:

If the battery disconnects are external to the BMS then 'the sky's the limit' for high amps. I like that approach and that's my reason for purchasing Chargery. I don't want the disconnect fets to conduct the 160A the microwave uses. The next largest load in my motor home is the forced air heater motor at 7A. A 20A disconnect would work well for loads other than the microwave.

I would choose Electrodacus if I were to do it over. Electrodacus, as well uses external disconnects. Some may think it's too complicated, but "complicated" comes down to more options for the user to mold the BMS to fit the users situation. What Electrodacus research have you come up with?

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My opinion is that Chargery is a more proven product. I currently am trying to focus on getting a dependable system set up.
I may decide to try out an Electrodacus some day. I think it is cool as hell that people make this stuff work the way they want it to work.
For now I am trying to stick to the path most traveled. Especially since I have no experience.

There is another Good Alternate but requires slightly deeper pockets, that is TinyBMS from Energus.

I was "" This close to going for that before I went Chargery but when it came to $ x multiples and being on a restricted fixed budget, I went with Chargery and in the process of doing I've attempted to help them improve the product not only myself but for everyone else. RS232 for me, gives me part of what I wanted, would much prefer bi-directional ModBus but I can live with this.

I remember when Dacian first started work on his BMS a few years back, it was rough at first & it evolved to what it is today. He does have a fixatiion on his ideas and doesn't take suggestions or ideas too well, unless they fit his vision. I noted that about 4 years ago and one of teh reasons I did not bother. Have things changed ? I dunno, I think so, to some extent but limiting to 24V is not indicative of that.

Steve_S said:

There is another Good Alternate but requires slightly deeper pockets, that is TinyBMS from Energus.

Shop | Energus Power Solutions

Integrate the most modern battery technology in hours, not years. Battery management systems, Li-ion modules.

www.energusps.com

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It looks like TinyBMS has internal fet disconnects. Their 150A unit is spec'd at 60A discharge and 30A charge (sustained). At $200 it's way over priced. That's crazy.

Looks like we'll have to wait for BiduleOhm to get his 48V BMS operational.

The Tiny can also use (optionally) external relay/contactor & shunt up to 750A for charge/discharge controls.

Isn't this a Chargery thread?

Bob B said:

Isn't this a Chargery thread?

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I think Steve and Craig are tired of defending Chargery. And I wonder if they are ready to try something different.
I want to try them all.

ArthurEld said:

I think Steve and Craig are tired of defending Chargery. And I wonder if they are ready to try something different.
I want to try them all.

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I try different "Budget" BMS whenever I can find them. I do not see myself ever using a Batrium or Orion due to their price.

If someone wishes to DONATE equipment for me to play with, test & trial, I'll happily go there but I live on a small disability pension and have nothing extra to spare. What I have done was for my own equipment, setup & operations.

My comment about the thread was kinda tongue in cheek .... like what's good for the goose is good for the gander if anyone understands that one.

The only aspects of the Chargery I am unhappy with is the one in the title of this thread and the lack of turnkey communications options. I knew about the communications going in, so can't really fault Chargery on that .... but I did expect better SOC tracking.
I understand how Jason could be a little defensive about seeing posts that criticize his work .... I would be the same if I put a lot of effort into something. I do think he is listening, however, and with Craig, Steve, and our input I am sure he will be making good changes to the product .... as he already has.

Oh, and discuss anything in this thread that's OK with Cal since it is his thread.

Ok so I read this whole thread and this is my take on it so far.
Buy a separate coulomb counter.
Buy a Chargery bms and battery charger [they do so much with their chargers, I can't see why not].
Then you are done for the absolute basics.

Later you can get shunts etc to protect from charging and/or discharging at the wrong temperatures.
That sound about right so far?
Great thread by the way.
Thanks Steve for this.

My intention is not to discredit Cal's complaint. I am just trying to understand how it is possible for me to avoid this problem.
And I am trying to figure out if it would be better for me to try a different BMS. Before I saw this thread, I was considering a Charger 16T.
I already ordered a Heltec 200A with 2A active balance but I see some have had serious problems with that BMS too.
I am not working or rich either and I am trying to order items that I will use. I need more than one BMS and as far as I can tell it wouldn't hurt to use a different BMS on each battery. There are many possibilities and if one BMS doesn't work out or if I like one better than the other I will change plans. I wish it was straightforward and easy to choose a reasonable priced 48V BMS. But it is not.