diy solar

diy solar

Terrible Signature Solar / EG4 18Kpv Experience - Returning and Replaced with Sol-Ark 15k

This is email I received from their "resolution team". Worth reading, they make it out to be that I'm somehow returning the unit beyond a normal window and as a courtesy they're accepting it back. That's nonsense, but gets worse. Read towards the end how they make it clear that if the box has been opened or shows any signs of install it's subject to a restocking fee, minus return shipping costs AND can only be used for future purchases at Signature Solar.

Screenshot 2023-08-04 at 1.52.32 PM.png

Per their returns policy, that's a mere 40% restocking fee I get to eat and am forced to spend my money with them. Apparently this is a $2,000 + return shipping mistake I've somehow made?? I wouldn't exactly call that a full refund..

Screenshot 2023-08-04 at 1.55.19 PM.png
 
For clarity I'd like to add, the unit was delivered July 11th, my initial message asking to return the item was July 28th.

We are still at this very moment a week from hitting 30 days after delivery, so I cannot fathom how they chose to word that return email.
 
Very well written post.
I was also quite surprised at some of SS responses, not very professional at all. At least they offered to pay any fines...
The unit is not working as intended,
I agree, especially after the grid export that you explained was the most important and Gilbert had working correctly...
I do give them a lot of credit for trying to support after regular business hours.
I really want to like this inverter but this seems like simple stuff that it should be beyond capable of doing, my current AIO is capable of everything except the RSD.

Best of luck to you in getting this resolved @Watts Happening in glad you're finally having a good Deye. ?
 
Watts Happening said:
Right, I shared nothing more than our conversation as it directly related to this product and the support I received. You're acting like I shared the location of his child.

If I was able to receive help over the phone, I wouldn't have had those messages. Unfortunately the only time I received a timely response from Signature Solar was when I posted on the forums. If that is the support I receive, which ultimately goes on to say what he said, should I pretend it didn't happen and ask everyone to take me at my word?
Click to expand...

@Watts Happening Probably one of the best writeups I have seen on this forum for 4 years ...

We have purchased - and we have sent back - and they have fixed -- and we are happy with several items from Signature Solar. The last thing we had issues with was their 5KW Chargeverter - it would just do strange things at strange times or not power up fully and to Signature Solar's credit - they did get us a new one out here and it has worked flawlessly. We purchased (4) of them total - one was bad - they fixed it ...

BUT - getting to the point of them finally answering the phone - or email - was very painful. My favourite is when the "assistant" says that if you would like a call back please leave your # and you won't lose your place in line -- I think to date we are still waiting for half a dozen call backs -- LOL - either that or the line is actually THAT long ....

I have nothing to base this on - just my personal thoughts - but they seem to be the standard "rebranding" company that we have seen pop up for the last several years. They find a good manufacturer in China to make a system for them and the Chinese make it almost ready (ALMOST) for "prime time" but at a good price and everyone just wets their panties because "it has too be good - because they sell allot of them at a very low price!!" .. which is a "groupthink" concept i never actually ever understood.

It was obvious you were not looking for a discount. You just had spent so much time and energy on this system already that if there was a fix - and if they could do it - then it was a win-win for everyone ... but they couldn't. And they probably couldn't because probably the Chinese manufacturer (who is 12 hours ahead of them) was either not understanding the issue or simply had no software/firmware wrote for what you are going through.

That's what separates the Chinese companies mostly from the American. The Chinese are huge on "won and done" -- they make it - you buy it - AND ... DONE!! ... They are also very cautious of providing to much of their real code to people like SS becuase they see SS as a wholesaler of THEIR product and not an integral "design" teammate. Also that "Won and Done" issue is obvious in the manuals they provide. Only reason that the manuals are the way they are is simply because the Chinese project manager does not want to explain to his boss why they spent $100 extra dollars getting the manual "English-fied" when the manual they have that was ran through Google Translate is good enough -- and FREE ...

And of course that puts SS in a tight spot because obviously they love it when 95% of their stuff works flawlessly - and you are asking it to do what it is designed to do -- but the moment you have issues -- then THEY have to defend an inferior design they were not part of or try to figure out how to get the guys across the pond to make changes. (And trust me - the guys across the pond are barely paid anything - and most Chinese companies - once they sell a product and a software - considers that DONE with )

SO we also was looking at the same EG4 you had - and we read all the same comments on the web that you read - and we decided that we simply could not take a chance with slow - VERY SLOW customer service AND that if we are paying XXX amount that we should not be the ginuea pigs for this ... also - 99% of our equipment goes out into the South Texas heat/cold - crammed into a server cabinet - and is never touched again - but has to work 101% of the time flawlessly ...

and thats why this time we have gone back to Midnite Solar products ... We will be picking up (4) of the Midnite Solar MNBCLNA Barcelona Charge Controller 600VDC 200A and giving them a shot ... we have also switched over to the ""EEL V3 48V 16S Server Rack Battery DIY Unit 280 BOX 51.2V Stackable Type with Active Balancer"" batteries. We are getting (8) of those batteries to test. We went with both because of their great customer service and willingness to pick up the phone - PLUS MIDNITE is 100% made in the US - and when you call they answer - and I know my boss spent about an hour on the phone with their technicians - the folks that actually is writing the code - to go over everything we needed to do and make sure that it does it ... YES the new BARCELONA is probably fresher and less tested than I like - but we truly believe they can fix most issues ..

PLUS - and this is a BIG plus -- they make and engineer and design and test all of their own stuff here in the States-- so when you talk to an engineer he knows 100% what can and can't be done -- and in fact - can actually update the firmware and send you a new patch IF you are having any issues - and can do that without having to call 8000 miles away ...

Again - nothing wrong with Signature Solar way of doing business - for 99% of the people they get what they pay for at a excellent price - quick delivery - and it does what it needs to do -- its the remaining 1% that causes them to often have the DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT response ...

anyway - excellent write up ,.... and you done great sharing this ....
 
42OhmsPA said:
Very well written post.
I was also quite surprised at some of SS responses, not very professional at all. At least they offered to pay any fines...
The unit is not working as intended,
I agree, especially after the grid export that you explained was the most important and Gilbert had working correctly...
I do give them a lot of credit for trying to support after regular business hours.
I really want to like this inverter but this seems like simple stuff that it should be beyond capable of doing, my current AIO is capable of everything except the RSD.

Best of luck to you in getting this resolved @Watts Happening in glad you're finally having a good Deye. ?
Click to expand...
Thank you!

I appreciate their attempts, and time of day didn’t matter much to me as most of my business is handed from home anyways. Whenever is convenient for them works for me. I assume Markus has other problems to deal with during 9-5 etc.

I sure wish it had worked out, I still hope it does, they’ve got a ton of potential.
 
Will Prowse said:
Okay I understand, I wonder what will happen now.
Click to expand...
Time will tell. I’ll pull the logs and have it on a pallet by Monday. They’ll either choose to clarify that a full refund will indeed be issued and none of the restocking/shipping/store credit nonsense, or I’ll just have my credit card company handle it.

I certainly would prefer the easier route, I don’t want to open a dispute against them and cause any additional problems on their end. It’s an easy process on my end, but it sucks when you’re the vendor (been down that road in the past).
 
Watts Happening said:
Time will tell. I’ll pull the logs and have it on a pallet by Monday. They’ll either choose to clarify that a full refund will indeed be issued and none of the restocking/shipping/store credit nonsense, or I’ll just have my credit card company handle it.

I certainly would prefer the easier route, I don’t want to open a dispute against them and cause any additional problems on their end. It’s an easy process on my end, but it sucks when you’re the vendor (been down that road in the past).
Click to expand...
I hope you get another one. I wish you could see how well they work. It's a big bummer that it's not.
 
ghostwriter66 said:
@Watts Happening Probably one of the best writeups I have seen on this forum for 4 years ...

We have purchased - and we have sent back - and they have fixed -- and we are happy with several items from Signature Solar. The last thing we had issues with was their 5KW Chargeverter - it would just do strange things at strange times or not power up fully and to Signature Solar's credit - they did get us a new one out here and it has worked flawlessly. We purchased (4) of them total - one was bad - they fixed it ...

BUT - getting to the point of them finally answering the phone - or email - was very painful. My favourite is when the "assistant" says that if you would like a call back please leave your # and you won't lose your place in line -- I think to date we are still waiting for half a dozen call backs -- LOL - either that or the line is actually THAT long ....

I have nothing to base this on - just my personal thoughts - but they seem to be the standard "rebranding" company that we have seen pop up for the last several years. They find a good manufacturer in China to make a system for them and the Chinese make it almost ready (ALMOST) for "prime time" but at a good price and everyone just wets their panties because "it has too be good - because they sell allot of them at a very low price!!" .. which is a "groupthink" concept i never actually ever understood.

It was obvious you were not looking for a discount. You just had spent so much time and energy on this system already that if there was a fix - and if they could do it - then it was a win-win for everyone ... but they couldn't. And they probably couldn't because probably the Chinese manufacturer (who is 12 hours ahead of them) was either not understanding the issue or simply had no software/firmware wrote for what you are going through.

That's what separates the Chinese companies mostly from the American. The Chinese are huge on "won and done" -- they make it - you buy it - AND ... DONE!! ... They are also very cautious of providing to much of their real code to people like SS becuase they see SS as a wholesaler of THEIR product and not an integral "design" teammate. Also that "Won and Done" issue is obvious in the manuals they provide. Only reason that the manuals are the way they are is simply because the Chinese project manager does not want to explain to his boss why they spent $100 extra dollars getting the manual "English-fied" when the manual they have that was ran through Google Translate is good enough -- and FREE ...

And of course that puts SS in a tight spot because obviously they love it when 95% of their stuff works flawlessly - and you are asking it to do what it is designed to do -- but the moment you have issues -- then THEY have to defend an inferior design they were not part of or try to figure out how to get the guys across the pond to make changes. (And trust me - the guys across the pond are barely paid anything - and most Chinese companies - once they sell a product and a software - considers that DONE with )

SO we also was looking at the same EG4 you had - and we read all the same comments on the web that you read - and we decided that we simply could not take a chance with slow - VERY SLOW customer service AND that if we are paying XXX amount that we should not be the ginuea pigs for this ... also - 99% of our equipment goes out into the South Texas heat/cold - crammed into a server cabinet - and is never touched again - but has to work 101% of the time flawlessly ...

and thats why this time we have gone back to Midnite Solar products ... We will be picking up (4) of the Midnite Solar MNBCLNA Barcelona Charge Controller 600VDC 200A and giving them a shot ... we have also switched over to the ""EEL V3 48V 16S Server Rack Battery DIY Unit 280 BOX 51.2V Stackable Type with Active Balancer"" batteries. We are getting (8) of those batteries to test. We went with both because of their great customer service and willingness to pick up the phone - PLUS MIDNITE is 100% made in the US - and when you call they answer - and I know my boss spent about an hour on the phone with their technicians - the folks that actually is writing the code - to go over everything we needed to do and make sure that it does it ... YES the new BARCELONA is probably fresher and less tested than I like - but we truly believe they can fix most issues ..

PLUS - and this is a BIG plus -- they make and engineer and design and test all of their own stuff here in the States-- so when you talk to an engineer he knows 100% what can and can't be done -- and in fact - can actually update the firmware and send you a new patch IF you are having any issues - and can do that without having to call 8000 miles away ...

Again - nothing wrong with Signature Solar way of doing business - for 99% of the people they get what they pay for at a excellent price - quick delivery - and it does what it needs to do -- its the remaining 1% that causes them to often have the DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT response ...

anyway - excellent write up ,.... and you done great sharing this ....
Click to expand...
Much appreciated!

I 100% agree with the points relating to selling a Chinese rebranded product and I literally brought that up to them.

As a vendor it’s super enticing to get what feels like an exclusive deal on an incredible device at rock bottom prices, you’re able to undercut the competition and on paper deliver an even better product. The issue becomes exactly what you stated, nobody in your business has the ability to make changes as needed. It’s a huge pain in the ass dealing with software engineers in other countries, add in differing electrical systems there and here, codes and more and it becomes a mess fast.

I’m totally aware that IF they had the ability to shut off all grid backfeed they would in a heartbeat. Clearly they know that’s an issue and want it rectified. They also would love of the inverter did exactly what was asked of it 100% of the time, but it simply doesn’t and people have to realize when you’re using a unit this expensive it’s the heart of your home (or whatever you have it installed in/on). I can’t sit around praying for revisions of software, I can’t keep telling the wife she’s going to lose power because someone that’s helping the company we bought it from is going to try some new firmware and settings.

A unit like this has to be like a pacemaker, you don’t put them in until you KNOW it’s going to work. Clearly I’m exaggerating a bit with that, but the point remains true.

When I get the new iPhone each year I don’t wonder if I’ll be able to make a call or receive a text. I’m paying a premium for a product I know will work, and that’s where this unit is priced.

It’s simple, make it work, make a lot of money, have less upset customers and when you do have one, treat them appropriately. Don’t make up nonsense and blame them, nor make it their fault your unit isn’t working.

For the 10th time I want to see them succeed, I mean that completely sincerely. If for nothing else, to drive market competition and force Sol-Ark and the like to step up their game too. It really can be a win-win for everyone. I’m just not willing to be the Guinea pig and treated like I’m a moron.
 
Will Prowse said:
I hope you get another one. I wish you could see how well they work. It's a big bummer that it's not.
Click to expand...
I love that idea, however at this point I think the ship has sailed. I’ve already hung the Sol-Ark in it’s place.

If for some reason they’d like to send me another one to test and work to help them solve issues, I’d listen to what they have to say. But at this point I’m not willing to spend my $5,000 on one. I don’t expect they want little old me being a tester, and that’s totally fine, but I would love to see it eventually blossom into something even better than the Sol-Ark. I’ve shared plenty of ideas with them, I was impressed when Markus thanked me for one relating to the manual.

Unfortunately it didn’t all stay positive. But, onwards and upwards as they say.
 
This was well written and outlines some issues with the software and support of the EG4 18kPV. @Will Prowse biggest issue is as OP stated the publicly available firmware for the EG4 18kPV will back feed the grid even when you have it set not to. People can get in trouble because of this.
 
rhino said:
This was well written and outlines some issues with the software and support of the EG4 18kPV. @Will Prowse biggest issue is as OP stated the publicly available firmware for the EG4 18kPV will back feed the grid even when you have it set not to. People can get in trouble because of this.
Click to expand...
Thank you!

Yes, you worded it very well. The major issue is the backfeed. The other issues were annoying, but every time they tried to address one issue, it would break another. There was no continuity of support, they each had differing approaches and firmware updates or downgrades would again cause the next batch of backfeeding and sometimes even new problems.

I’m still hoping our power company somehow missed them. I did what I could to hide the back feeding, anytime I caught it in time I’d fire up the Tesla charger to spin the meter quickly and hopefully “absorb” anything they would have noticed.
 
Watts Happening said:
Thank you!

Yes, you worded it very well. The major issue is the backfeed. The other issues were annoying, but every time they tried to address one issue, it would break another. There was no continuity of support, they each had differing approaches and firmware updates or downgrades would again cause the next batch of backfeeding and sometimes even new problems.

I’m still hoping our power company somehow missed them. I did what I could to hide the back feeding, anytime I caught it in time I’d fire up the Tesla charger to spin the meter quickly and hopefully “absorb” anything they would have noticed.
Click to expand...
What was the largest amount of back feeding that you measured with your meter and not with the screen? How long did it last for
 
Will Prowse said:
What kind of battery are you running on this system
Click to expand...
Initially a LL v2 battery with communications, then switched over to SOKs with communication because I have more.

I personally saw it outputting ~200w for a solid 20 minutes via a meter. This ended when I disconnected the grid.

It varied but I’d call it an average of 200w. Which matches the graph I sent them and they apologized from. I’ll see if I can pull the data from my meter too. That will be interesting
 
Watts Happening said:
Initially a LL v2 battery with communications, then switched over to SOKs with communication because I have more.

I personally saw it outputting ~200w for a solid 20 minutes via a meter. This ended when I disconnected the grid.

It varied but I’d call it an average of 200w. Which matches the graph I sent them and they apologized from. I’ll see if I can pull the data from my meter too. That will be interesting
Click to expand...
Just a single battery connected?
 
Will Prowse said:
Just a single battery connected?
Click to expand...
Only during the initial time of trying to get the dongle going. As soon as the system was "online" I swapped it out for a bank of the SOK batteries.

I suppose to answer your question more completely, the entirety of the back feeding/discharging issues was with 15kWh of SOK connected. Communication with them worked great. We would only discharge to ~30-35% during our 3-9pm peak shaving.
 
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