Terrible Signature Solar / EG4 18Kpv Experience - Returning and Replaced with Sol-Ark 15k

Will Prowse said:

Sounds like a hardware issue. The new firmware is solid. I think something on the unit is defective.

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cs1234 said:

I'm sure it could be a hardware problem.

You are a trusted person in this industry, possibly the most trusted in the DIY space, and have a solid working unit with a firmware you like in your possession. Theoretically however, nothing you could do with this defective unit, Signature Solar couldn't do better at their shop.

It's a matter of impartiality though. Whom do we here on the forum, as a whole, find more trustworthy, Will Prowse, or Signature Solar? Judging from past threads, I'm going to say.. Will Prowse.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what the verdict is. Peak shaving is obviously a very important feature given the increase of time of use billing we can expect to see in the future.

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I will say that its NOT a hardware problem but a software/firmware causing the hardware not to do what it needs to do ... Watts Happening clearly stated that at one point the other tech had it working just the way that it was suppose to when it came to not feeding back -- and then when Tech #3 came on and updated the firmware then the issues came back .. so not hardware but software ....

People saying things are rock solid is fine as long as they say what the parameters are that they have tested the equipment with ... obviously WATTS Happening tried to have it do something that it should have been able to do -- but simply did not have the proper software wrote to do it and odds are - will never have the proper software to do it ...

remember - and I say this as a Chinese-American - but for anyone that has had to deal directly with these manufacturers -- the Chinese phrase of "Well its does what its designed to do" is one of the first phrases you learn to listen for ... the problem is that the manufacturers design it for one thing - and then the creative marketing team adds a few things here on the marketing page ... and it becomes a slippery slope ...

Look at all the wind turbine that weigh 5 pounds but supposingly can produce 10,000W - aaaghhh

Or these little $10 SCC that supposingly can do 40A - aaaghhh

a year ago we were all buying crap batteries dressed up in lipstick and bows all hoping that we get lucky and not get the REALLY bad ones ...

and the list goes on

ghostwriter66 said:

Watts Happening clearly stated that at one point the other tech had it working just the way that it was suppose to when it came to not feeding back -- and then when Tech #3 came on and updated the firmware then the issues came back .. so not hardware but software ....

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Yes, it definitely appears a lot of the issues is software not hardware. That huge other 18kPV thread has instances of people upgrading to beta version to get something fixed (like the grid feedback issue) only to have something else break that was working in previous build and ask to be reverted back to the older (public) build. It's doesn't help that the firmware versioning scheme uses hex codes instead of simple semantic versioning that would make it a lot easier to communicate and know if one is newer then the other.

Even with the "working" firmware that OP had, he still had weirdness like delayed start/stop times.. +/- 8 minutes is pretty extreme. That would imply either really inept programming, or a really overloaded / locked up processor. A few ms here and then, sure.. a few seconds.. ok, maybe.. but 8 minutes? What's it doing, running Crysis in the background?

Hopefully it's not relying on an internet connection to some server somewhere to control start/stop times. I could see that having weird delays. I would rather it be a hardware problem than something as awful as that.

What would make you guys think that it's software? Imagine if there is a faulty current transformer that's throwing off the feedback loop. This is the first one that's doing it. If it was software I would expect myself and others to be able to reproduce this right now in our systems.

Overloading the processor? How in the world would that happen?

And no you don't need the internet to run this thing. I can't imagine a system relying on Wi-Fi like that. What features specifically require the Wi-Fi besides remote monitoring?

cs1234 said:

Even with the "working" firmware that OP had, he still had weirdness like delayed start/stop times.. +/- 8 minutes is pretty extreme. That would imply either really inept programming, or a really overloaded / locked up processor. A few ms here and then, sure.. a few seconds.. ok, maybe.. but 8 minutes? What's it doing, running Crysis in the background?

Hopefully it's not relying on an internet connection to some server somewhere to control start/stop times. I could see that having weird delays. I would rather it be a hardware problem than something as awful as that.

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What is making people assume that it works this way? I don't see how any software engineer would set it up like that. Did someone have evidence of it working that way?

ghostwriter66 said:

I will say that its NOT a hardware problem but a software/firmware causing the hardware not to do what it needs to do ... Watts Happening clearly stated that at one point the other tech had it working just the way that it was suppose to when it came to not feeding back -- and then when Tech #3 came on and updated the firmware then the issues came back .. so not hardware but software ....

People saying things are rock solid is fine as long as they say what the parameters are that they have tested the equipment with ... obviously WATTS Happening tried to have it do something that it should have been able to do -- but simply did not have the proper software wrote to do it and odds are - will never have the proper software to do it ...

remember - and I say this as a Chinese-American - but for anyone that has had to deal directly with these manufacturers -- the Chinese phrase of "Well its does what its designed to do" is one of the first phrases you learn to listen for ... the problem is that the manufacturers design it for one thing - and then the creative marketing team adds a few things here on the marketing page ... and it becomes a slippery slope ...

Look at all the wind turbine that weigh 5 pounds but supposingly can produce 10,000W - aaaghhh

Or these little $10 SCC that supposingly can do 40A - aaaghhh

a year ago we were all buying crap batteries dressed up in lipstick and bows all hoping that we get lucky and not get the REALLY bad ones ...

and the list goes on

Click to expand...

I absolutely disagree with you. If it was software I should be able to reproduce it with my unit and everyone else's. I've never seen this type of behavior before and it could easily be caused by hardware issue. Think about what's going on here and the feedback loop for feeding current through the circuit. If you have one current transformer that's not working properly it could throw off everything. And those are easily damaged in shipping.

I also question your motive and logic sometimes after the lies I found you making in the other thread. Have you responded to those questions at all yet? I do not like people who lie

rhino said:

Yes, it definitely appears a lot of the issues is software not hardware. That huge other 18kPV thread has instances of people upgrading to beta version to get something fixed (like the grid feedback issue) only to have something else break that was working in previous build and ask to be reverted back to the older (public) build. It's doesn't help that the firmware versioning scheme uses hex codes instead of simple semantic versioning that would make it a lot easier to communicate and know if one is newer then the other.

Click to expand...

This could easily be caused by a hardware issue. And let's try to reproduce it in other units then. Do you have an 18K that you can use right now? Can you reproduce this issue in your system if you go back into the older firmware?

ghostwriter66 said:

I will say that its NOT a hardware problem but a software/firmware causing the hardware not to do what it needs to do ... Watts Happening clearly stated that at one point the other tech had it working just the way that it was suppose to when it came to not feeding back -- and then when Tech #3 came on and updated the firmware then the issues came back .. so not hardware but software ....

People saying things are rock solid is fine as long as they say what the parameters are that they have tested the equipment with ... obviously WATTS Happening tried to have it do something that it should have been able to do -- but simply did not have the proper software wrote to do it and odds are - will never have the proper software to do it ...

remember - and I say this as a Chinese-American - but for anyone that has had to deal directly with these manufacturers -- the Chinese phrase of "Well its does what its designed to do" is one of the first phrases you learn to listen for ... the problem is that the manufacturers design it for one thing - and then the creative marketing team adds a few things here on the marketing page ... and it becomes a slippery slope ...

Look at all the wind turbine that weigh 5 pounds but supposingly can produce 10,000W - aaaghhh

Or these little $10 SCC that supposingly can do 40A - aaaghhh

a year ago we were all buying crap batteries dressed up in lipstick and bows all hoping that we get lucky and not get the REALLY bad ones ...

and the list goes on

Click to expand...

The only argument you have posted on this form is how bad the Chinese are. Can you offer solutions to the problem or maybe steps that we can use to figure out what is wrong with this system? Endlessly bashing the Chinese doesn't fix anything. Also, lying to people about your background does not help either.

Will Prowse said:

This could easily be caused by a hardware issue. And let's try to reproduce it in other units then. Do you have an 18K that you can use right now? Can you reproduce this issue in your system if you go back into the older firmware?

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It was already stated by either Luxpower or SS that you need the beta firmware in order to fix the grid feedback issue in that other thread.. (there's a lot of messages to search through to find it but this is a known issue).

rhino said:

It was already stated by either Luxpower or SS that you need the beta firmware in order to fix the grid feedback issue in that other thread.. (there's a lot of messages to search through to find it but this is a known issue).

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Yeah but those are not issues that are present in this thread. I've never seen these issues anywhere on the forum. Can you link to me here where you see these exact same issues?

If the data cannot be replicated on every other unit, it's not software.

Does the 18k have the ability to always pull a set load from the grid? As stated earlier in this thread that's the only real way to avoid all possible feedback to grid.

The main issue that started all this for @Watts Happening was the selling back to grid when he isn't approved to do so. That is fixed in the beta version of the firmware which is mentioned by LuxPower: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-18kpv-q-a-general-thread.61636/post-820933.

After updating to that beta firmware (still not clear on the version number) there were other issues not related to selling back to grid. I don't have good grasp of the issues with that version but there has been complaints about issues with that beta version.

Edit: and to @PreppenWolf's comment, every EG4 18kPV will have potential to sell back to grid even if it appears you properly configured it not to unless you have that beta version of the firmware.

Interesting. ?

Will Prowse said:

What is making people assume that it works this way? I don't see how any software engineer would set it up like that. Did someone have evidence of it working that way?

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I'm trying to respond while busy, so please forgive any oversights or omissions.

I agree, why would anyone set up a computer to be 8 minutes off, clearly not anything anyone would want. But their "guru" and only person who provided any level of reliable support that worked, clearly stated that was how it works. No doubt about it. It doesn't make sense, but neither do parents who hurt their children. We live in an imperfect world, hard to decide why for every situation.

rhino said:

The main issue that started all this for @Watts Happening was the selling back to grid when he isn't approved to do so. That is fixed in the beta version of the firmware which is mentioned by LuxPower: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-18kpv-q-a-general-thread.61636/post-820933.

After updating to that beta firmware (still not clear on the version number) there were other issues not related to selling back to grid. I don't have good grasp of the issues with that version but there has been complaints about issues with that beta version.

Edit: and to @PreppenWolf's comment, every EG4 18kPV will have potential to sell back to grid even if it appears you properly configured it not to unless you have that beta version of the firmware.

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Thank you for that, I did not see that page at all

Will Prowse said:

I absolutely disagree with you. If it was software I should be able to reproduce it with my unit and everyone else's. I've never seen this type of behavior before and it could easily be caused by hardware issue. Think about what's going on here and the feedback loop for feeding current through the circuit. If you have one current transformer that's not working properly it could throw off everything. And those are easily damaged in shipping.

I also question your motive and logic sometimes after the lies I found you making in the other thread. Have you responded to those questions at all yet? I do not like people who lie

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Again: I'm trying to respond while busy, so please forgive any oversights or omissions.

I think your logic is sound, however I can say the following with absolute confidence. I've dealt with computer hardware and software of varying types for many years, it's not all black and white.

Your argument about the CTs, if one was working incorrectly it wouldn't start working incorrectly with another version of firmware.

As for any lies, I have no idea so I have to defer that to whatever happened there.

Will Prowse said:

This could easily be caused by a hardware issue. And let's try to reproduce it in other units then. Do you have an 18K that you can use right now? Can you reproduce this issue in your system if you go back into the older firmware?

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My gut instinct is that it is NOT hardware based, again this is decades of experience but I am more than willing to be wrong in that. I have the inverter in question, I can absolutely test it in whatever way anyone would like, I have plenty of cameras and recording equipment, I'll make the time with the blessing of Signature Solar. You pick a scenario, I'll make it happen.

Watts Happening said:

I'm trying to respond while busy, so please forgive any oversights or omissions.

I agree, why would anyone set up a computer to be 8 minutes off, clearly not anything anyone would want. But their "guru" and only person who provided any level of reliable support that worked, clearly stated that was how it works. No doubt about it. It doesn't make sense, but neither do parents who hurt their children. We live in an imperfect world, hard to decide why for every situation.

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No worries. I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with the unit. That's my job with the videos. I need details that I can share with others. I also need to figure out if it's a manufacturing defect and how common those are.

PreppenWolf said:

If the data cannot be replicated on every other unit, it's not software.

Does the 18k have the ability to always pull a set load from the grid? As stated earlier in this thread that's the only real way to avoid all possible feedback to grid.

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This was discussed multiple times with Signature Solar. That is an obvious fix. Again, at no point was a hardware issue discussed, thus further leading me to believe it's a software issue.

Truth be told, I wish a hardware issue was the cause, it would have been a cheaper and easier option to have a new unit delivered and installed.

Watts Happening said:

My gut instinct is that it is NOT hardware based, again this is decades of experience but I am more than willing to be wrong in that. I have the inverter in question, I can absolutely test it in whatever way anyone would like, I have plenty of cameras and recording equipment, I'll make the time with the blessing of Signature Solar. You pick a scenario, I'll make it happen.

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I would hook it up to grid and a battery, and make a complete system by throwing some panels on the ground. Just a temporary system.

If you ever have any issues with any product ever, try to document everything you can about the actual device and what it's doing. I personally don't care what signature solar has to say. Is a person that should be responding to this thread is luxpower. If there was an issue with sol ark, I want them to respond. Because having these random distributors respond doesn't do a whole lot for us. Unless they know what the problem is. Fortress power is also selling this unit and I'm not concerned with them either. @Luxpower_Gilbert can you please help us figure out what's going on here