diy solar

diy solar

Failed Inspection - need some advice and guidance for NEC 690 infractions.

CoolWill said:
The code says that your electrical system must have a grounding electrode. If it is a rod type electrode, it must have a resistance of 25 ohms or less. That means if you drive a single rod, you must have some means to verify it meets the 25 ohms or less requirement. It can't be done with a regular multimeter on the ohms setting.

BUT! The next paragraph or so in the code tells you that if you can't get 25 ohms or less, you can add an additional rod, at least 6 feet apart, and connect it to the first rod. There is no requirement to verify the ohms of the two-rod system. So you either find a way to do a complicated 3 point fall of potential earth resistance test... Or you can just add a second rod and be done.
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So, let me make sure I have this straight..

Being as he is off grid / building his own new house.. he needs two rods or a fancy as* way of verifying the resistance of his single rod. All houses / buildings with their own separate electric connection to the grid or offgrid would need / normally have this setup I'm assuming. If a separate building is getting it's power from some other building, that has said rods somewhere in the circuit and the distance is appropriate, you would just ground back to the other building and not put in any more rods at that location.

2 legs good! 4 legs bad!
 
cs1234 said:
So, let me make sure I have this straight..

Being as he is off grid / building his own new house.. he needs two rods or a fancy as* way of verifying the resistance of his single rod. All houses / buildings with their own separate electric connection to the grid or offgrid would need / normally have this setup I'm assuming. If a separate building is getting it's power from some other building, that has said rods somewhere in the circuit and the distance is appropriate, you would just ground back to the other building and not put in any more rods at that location.

2 legs good! 4 legs bad!
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Just to be clear. I have one rod at the panel array (about 300 ft away) and two rods (now) at the power shed that are 8 feet apart. My original point to point only depicts 1 rod at the power shed, but when he showed up to inspect, he required an additional rod at the shed. He didn't test anything for ohms at all. In fact, he didn't test anything at all. He didn't even show up with a multi-meter. I had to break mine out to prove my panels were bonded and that the inverters were bonded...which brings me back to the main reason for my post. I don't know if that is normal for an inspector to show up without tools or not because I've never been through an inspection.
 
SilverbackMP said:
Bullshit. If a government is going to adopt shit based off a private organization’s guidance which is funded via corporations (hello actual fascism), the very fckn least the could do would give an inclination as to what they are looking for. Are they there to assist and protect or be a hindrance or gatekeeper? Serve the publickkkkk. Don’t be a prick. Answer some basic fckn questions. I have zero patience for such bullshit and have flayed more than one .gov and .mil GS and contractors for being a hindrance and O2 waister.

Are you an electrician? Are you pulling a hvac play and circling the wagons?
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Haha, no. Not an electrician. But I can read and comprehend most of the code book without assistance just fine ... and am smart enough to get help from a professional when I don't understand something.
 
meager said:
Just to be clear. I have one rod at the panel array (about 300 ft away) and two rods (now) at the power shed that are 8 feet apart. My original point to point only depicts 1 rod at the power shed, but when he showed up to inspect, he required an additional rod at the shed. He didn't test anything for ohms at all. In fact, he didn't test anything at all. He didn't even show up with a multi-meter. I had to break mine out to prove my panels were bonded and that the inverters were bonded...which brings me back to the main reason for my post. I don't know if that is normal for an inspector to show up without tools or not because I've never been through an inspection.
Click to expand...

From my understanding of these rods.. with the new info about two rods given to me today..

You need two rods with the 6' spacing at the location where power enters your main building to meet the ohms requirement.. I'm guessing you are using the power shed as your main building, or it's so closely located to your house that you are using it for your ground rod location. No other rods should be needed or wanted anywhere else. Properly sized ground cable should just run from the array and other buildings back to where your two ground rods are.

However, whatever the inspector wants, the inspector gets.. even if he is using info from 40 years ago.
 
cs1234 said:
You need two rods with the 6' spacing at the location where power enters your main building to meet the ohms requirement.. I'm guessing you are using the power shed as your main building, or it's so closely located to your house that you are using it for your ground rod location. No other rods should be needed or wanted anywhere else. Properly sized ground cable should just run from the array and other buildings back to where your two ground rods are.
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At least 6'. I went with 8' between just to be safe. I guess you can say my power shed is my "main" building since it is the only building out there now. The house will be the required 10' away. I'm using a contractor to build the house, so the electrical for the house won't be my problem. It'll be the electricians problem. I wanted to DIY the electrical in the house, but I'd have to do the entire thing myself and I simply cannot hold up the project. I've done several small / medium electrical DIY projects previous to this. This project is on a much greater scale, but it has been very fun and rewarding indeed.
 
Q-Dog said:
Haha, no. Not an electrician. But I can read and comprehend most of the code book without assistance just fine ... and am smart enough to get help from a professional when I don't understand something.
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I am too. But I have money now. I can pay for problems to be taken care of if I need to. But I came from poor folks and didn’t have a pot to piss in for a long time. I get trying to DIY everything because there’s no choice. OP was asking pertinent questions and not asking to be spoon fed, IMHO. I didn’t read it as him complaining about being required to make changes. He was asking for clarification.
 
meager said:
I am the one to blame for watching all of these videos and presuming is was the correct way to do things. Lesson learned!!
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I think the comments in those youtube videos are often more valuable than the video itself. Generally there's at least one knowledgeable person who will point out all the things done wrong in the video, sometimes quoting the relevant code section. I took an iterative approach when I designed mine, I watched a bunch of videos and read the comments, then wrote down the relevant requirements for my situation. When I had a specific question I would ask it either on this forum or an electrical forum. Took about 2 months to get everything straight in my mind. I also bought an NEC code book on ebay and put stickies on all the relevant sections. Then I read them over and over until I convinced myself I understood it.
 
Q-Dog said:
Haha, no. Not an electrician. But I can read and comprehend most of the code book without assistance just fine ... and am smart enough to get help from a professional when I don't understand something.
Click to expand...
I am smart enough to get help, I just don't need the extra expense that may or may not yield results. I'm new in this town and don't really know anyone to ask for a recommendation. Besides, that is what this forum is all about...it says so right there in the URL :)

Edit: Being independent comes with a massive amount of responsibility. I HAVE to know and understand every single aspect of this thing. I can't just pick up the phone and call someone if something breaks...or flip a switch and automagically be on grid. If something breaks, I have to fix it.
 
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meager said:
I don't know if that is normal for an inspector to show up without tools or not because I've never been through an inspection.
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Inspectors don't measure. They inspect and compare to plans (and memory of code.)
But maybe one would carry an outlet tester to spot-check for gross errors.

If a licensed professional engineer provided a signed document declaring < 25 ohms ground rod to earth, that would likely satisfy inspector.

I think one of these will cost you less than a PE. Certainly less than my time, and I'm not a PE.


1691542301573.png
 
cs1234 said:
I've seen so much information on ground rods and grounding here on the forum and Mike Holt videos that anything other than one main ground rod that everything is grounded to scares me.

Maybe some of the other more experienced folks on here will chime in to allay my fears.
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Two at the service 6 feet apart is good. It creates a better connection to the earth. At the array is a bad idea. But it all comes down to interpretation of the code, by the AHJ. You do what they want, to pass the inspection.
It can be disconnected afterwards. ;)
 
ghostwriter66 said:
Maybe he was saving something for "next" time ... LOL
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Don't scare me like that! Is that possible? Like if I fix all this stuff, can he throw more curve balls my way? I realize if the stuff I fix doesn't meet his standard...I'll have to fix that. I guess anything is possible. He did show up to the inspection and his first words where "I shouldn't even be here because you don't have an address sign". I knew shit was going downhill from that moment. I have to give everyone GPS coordinates just to show up...I've never yet considered an address sign. It isn't like someone can google my address...or at least yet.
 
SilverbackMP said:
I am too. But I have money now. I can pay for problems to be taken care of if I need to. But I came from poor folks and didn’t have a pot to piss in for a long time. I get trying to DIY everything because there’s no choice. OP was asking pertinent questions and not asking to be spoon fed, IMHO. I didn’t read it as him complaining about being required to make changes. He was asking for clarification.
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I suspect you and I are a lot alike. But I still don't agree it is the inspector's job to hand-hold a DIY'er.
 
Q-Dog said:
I suspect you and I are a lot alike. But I still don't agree it is the inspector's job to hand-hold a DIY'er.
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Asking if there needs to be an additional ground wire from the inverter to common isn't holding my hand. All he needs to say is yes...or no. After all the feed back on this post, I think the inspector doesn't know the proper answer and that may be why he remains terribly vague on this infraction. Even the manufacturer told me it is the ONLY way to wire this inverter. If he requires me to add additional grounding to the inverter, then I'll just do it. Of course I'll take it out as soon as it passes, but I'll still do it.

Edit: and to that point...if that isn't what is is looking for and I add an additional ground wire...then that will be an infraction. I'm starting to feel like the inspector isn't that familiar with modern equipment. I don't fault him for that. These inverters are already out dated the second you hang them on your wall with the next best thing.
 
timselectric said:
This is the perfect place to land your solar array grounding conductor.
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Hmmm...I didn't honestly think about that. Seems far too obvious honestly. I know that if I do that, or whatever I'm "supposed" to do, it won't make a bit of difference to the grounding I already have in place. If it gets this guy off my back, then I may just do it. Thanks for the suggestion! I have tons and tons of ground wire laying around :)
 
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