Has anybody used the Rosie inverter yet for prime time?

hwy17 said:

You just seem to be persisting in an assumption that the Rosie is somehow physically different and less capable than an XW. And it's not true. It's missing an AC2 input is all, and people are moving to external chargers for generator power anyway.

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I didn’t bring up the XW but the Rosie is less capable. Being able to export and do zero export are very good and necessary capabilities that the xw can do ATM and from the start the xw could export.. Those capabilities imo would be more important for most people than the offgrid/pass thru features which is all the Rosie currently has. Unless there was more people in the states offgrid without a grid connection (which there’s not). If there’s a grid connection and the system is installed correctly than a simple inspection might be all that is necessary to export/zero export. In most areas a person can do their own work on their own home and have it inspected. Some areas require an agreement which may or may not be beneficial or make sense to get. monthly charges to have the agreement which might lean towards an offgrid inverter making more sense. I could be wrong but I’m thinking the majority can get an agreement or inspection and simply not export with a main panel supplying zero export inverter. And cover almost or all of their homes main panel loads and have right at a zero dollar electric bill. And save all excess power in batteries (which are getting more reasonable every day) for their own night time main panel usage

FWIW from looking at the already-provided feature set and certifications I concluded that it'll be years before it's approved by California Energy Commission (1) or compliant with California residential code (2), and that Midnite probably just doesn't care about this market. (*)

(1) is entirely on MidNite to solve if they want to reach capability parity for California NEM2 customers, since selling from battery is rather lucrative under those terms. For NEM3 terms zero export / self consume is probably enough value.

(2) is probably going to end up happening as UL9540 DC ESS batteries come on the market. At that point you can have a legal install with simply the UL1741 off-grid cert that the Rosie has today.

(*) I'm not sure why MidNite / this thread still lives rent free in my head given that these use cases are the main ones that are important to me ?. Victron also doesn't care about my main important use cases with their product strategy, and they probably waste as much space in my brain as MidNite at this point.

By comparison XW already satisfies (1) and for (2) already has UL9540 AC ESS.

To get the most out of a start up setup and have the fastest ROI, having a true hybrid that powers the main panel directly is essential. The inverter can be small like 3kw or like 6kw to cover the homes constant loads and the inverter can simply supply its max to cover whichever loads the home is using. If the home needs more than the inverter is supplying the grid simply simultaneously supplies the main panel load. If the inverter was only offgrid (like the Rosie) with pass thru then the inverter could only power the loads that are moved to the inverters AC output panel. If those loads are like 1000 watts at a given moment in the offgrid panel and it’s a 6kw inverter and the main panel is still using 3000w then the user is paying for the grid/utility to supply the main panel 3000 watts, Even though the inverter had enough remaining output capacity to have covered all of that load. And would have if it was a true hybrid powering the main panel.

From what I was reading the Rosie is always powering the load from battery (no transfer switch/time). And then it can charge the battery at up to 120A from grid.

There's certainly a market for a US designed and built off grid inverter with integrated communication with outboard sccs (barcelona/hawkes bay). The heritage of Midnite has been built over many years. If you need grid interactive/export/ac coupling the Rosie is not for you.

There are some older YouTube videos of Rosie being tested, impressive.
2 Rosie's in parallel would be great but most people could get away with a single XW6048 due to the surge duration ratings, imo.

This is frustrating, let's try and get real info, not your random guessing.

@SpongeboB Sinewave
Can you help answer a few questions?
1. When grid connected and the load exceeds inverter capabilities, will the inverter and grid share the load?
2. Is there a timeline for the CTs software to allow offsetting loads on the input side (in the main panel)? The manual shows the connection, but says they'll be active with a later software release.

I wouldn’t call it random, simply going off of what any DIYer has available to read.

Peak load shaving is already in the listed feature set. I haven't seen it 100% confirmed working but other future features like export are not marketed yet.

I wouldn't ask Midnite for a timeline for anything that's setting yourself up for disappointment. Celebrate what they are already offering.

hwy17 said:

Peak load shaving is already in the listed feature set. I haven't seen it 100% confirmed working but other future features like export are not marketed yet.

I wouldn't ask Midnite for a timeline for anything that's setting yourself up for disappointment. Celebrate what they are already offering.

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Better for them to test it in house and take their time with the firmware, rather than have end users beta testing...

hwy17 said:

Peak load shaving is already in the listed feature set. I haven't seen it 100% confirmed working but other future features like export are not marketed yet.

I wouldn't ask Midnite for a timeline for anything that's setting yourself up for disappointment. Celebrate what they are already offering.

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I thought peak load shaving allows the battery to support the load at peak settable times/watts. Not grid and inverter simultaneously powering the load.

Cheap 4-life said:

I thought peak load shaving allows the battery to support the load at peak settable times/watts. Not grid and inverter simultaneously powering the load.

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The word shaving to me implies a power mixture.

From their page:

With The Ability To Add Power From The Battery To Support Loads Greater Than The AC IN Allows As An Example.

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thats grid support not peak load shaving which is often confused, I still confuse them
with grid support,, let’s say the AC in/grid was only allowed to support (through adjustable settings) 1000w of the offgrid panels load. Then when loads Exceed 1000w the battery adds support to the loads which the grid is already supplying part of. Which means the grid would still be supplying 1000w which the user has to pay for. But the inverter/battery/sun was perfectly capable of supplying that 1000w. Yes grid and battery/inverter produced power would be simultaneous but the grid should only be used to power the load if the inverter/battery can’t fully cover the load. Why pay for power from the grid if there’s battery power available.. yes I understand in some scenarios the battery power is to be saved for peak hours when rates are higher. But for most use cases they would want the battery/inverter covering as much as it can 24/7 and the grid only helping to supply the load simultaneously AFTER the inverter is at max capacity. Again why allow the not free grid power to power the load when theres free battery power. As far as I can tell (from what’s available to read) the Rosie does not allow the grid to help to fully supply the loads AFTER the inverter is at max output. The grid will only constantly supply the loads with a settable amount or the grid will FULLY supply the load (pass thru) when the loads exceed the inverters output..
The best part of mixing the grids power and inverter power is that the grid is only used when the load exceeds the inverters max possible output. That way at any moment 24/7, only the suns/battery power is used and grid power is never used unless it has to be used. For example when loads infrequently exceed the inverters max output. BUT the inverter should continue to power the load because there’s battery power available..
so yes the grid and inverter can simultaneously power the load. I misspoke/was wrong.. I meant to say with the Rosie the grid and inverter can‘t simultaneously power the load when it makes the most sense for that to happen (from the information that’s currently available for the average person to read)

Imo there’s no reason for most users to get/pay for inverters so large just to cover infrequent surges and infrequent high loads. A 6kw inverter like the Rosie would be great and cheaper and cover most homes sustained loads. And the grid could simply supply the split second start up surges and infrequent higher than inverter max output loads while the inverter stays running at max output.. this requires the inverter to have the capability of zero export and ability to power the main panel. Then only a few small critical loads to survive outages (which is all most need) would have to be moved to an offgrid panel. This greatly reduces the size/capacity needed of expensive batteries because the load demand for days of autonomy would be less because not all loads are after the inverter. And battery/inverter size is less costly and reduced because high surges and infrequent high loads are instead covered by the grid simultaneously..

Brucey said:

Better for them to test it in house and take their time with the firmware, rather than have end users beta testing...

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They actually have beta testers they use to simulate real world testing prior to releasing to the general public.
That's my understanding at least.

And one forum member here actually has that as his user name.

Midnight ran Rosie for several years before releasing for sale. Powered well pump, 4x air compressors, etc.

42OhmsPA said:

They actually have beta testers they use to simulate real world testing prior to releasing to the general public.
That's my understanding at least.

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Which is totally fine. They know what they are getting into.

Brucey said:

Better for them to test it in house and take their time with the firmware, rather than have end users beta testing...

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You mean like Eg4 and various other Chinesium inverters? ?

Cheap 4-life said:

So this inverter will shutoff if loads exceed the inverters max output?

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Yes, if over-loaded say, twice rated output (14kW) it will shut down after several minutes when it gets too hot. I can't remember if that amount of time is around 10 minutes or 30 minutes but something like that. It can surge at maybe 3 times rated value ?

boB

hwy17 said:

It's basically the same as an XW though.

I supposed nowadays that these 200A passthrough inverters exist people are gonna start seeing 60A as a big limitation.

I think most people considering a Rosie would be considering it to run all their loads more or less. And if you can do that, then there's a lot of options for how to wire it in.

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Brucey said:

From what I was reading the Rosie is always powering the load from battery (no transfer switch/time). And then it can charge the battery at up to 120A from grid.

There's certainly a market for a US designed and built off grid inverter with integrated communication with outboard sccs (barcelona/hawkes bay). The heritage of Midnite has been built over many years. If you need grid interactive/export/ac coupling the Rosie is not for you.

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Rosie does actually do grid support (gen support coming) as well as AC coupling with frequency-shift for micro-inverters

SpongeboB Sinewave said:

Yes, if over-loaded say, twice rated output (14kW) it will shut down after several minutes when it gets too hot. I can't remember if that amount of time is around 10 minutes or 30 minutes but something like that. It can surge at maybe 3 times rated value ?

boB

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A few questions if you have a moment.

If simply overloaded from constant usage over 6kw will the Rosie shutdown?

Can the Rosie use the AC input instead as an output to the main panel for exporting to the grid?

I see the manual says there’s ports for external CT. Would the main purpose of those CTs be for letting the inverter know how much power it can supply to the main panel, so it doesn’t supply more power than the loads are using to prevent exporting?

Love that midnite branched off of Outback to make better charge controllers. Also am really liking what I’m reading about the Rosie. Particularly USA made and the higher DC battery input voltage (65v).
If the Rosie can do the things I’m asking now or in the near future I’m sold.