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What are the actual FINES for unpermitted solar installations?

Clipper81 said:
What are the actual FINES if they catch you with unpermitted Solar in California?

The ostensible reasons for permits, of course, are the risks; public safety, liability and insurance, resale value and/or liability when the house gets sold. Liability if your installation kills some unfortunate PG&E worker.

But how would they discover your unpermitted installation? What is the title of the actual person who would put their eyes on it, and make legal trouble for you?

Would you get a nasty letter from PG&E if you suddenly zeroed out your usage? You may not get paid for it, but what if you started feeding small amounts back into the grid, without closing your account? How about larger amounts? Do you think they watch your individual bill that closely? What kind of "checks and balances "do they have?

Do you think the cops would show up at your door? The FBI? The CIA? The FAA? The USCG? President Biden himself?

I am being facetious of course, but I really want to know. The whole situation reminds me of photos of World War II, where two Nazi guards are marching 500 prisoners off to their deaths. A revolt could easily overcome the guards, though one or two prisoners might get picked off… and then of course they would have to figure out how to get out of Germany after that... but the prisoners were so defeated in their own minds that they just marched off to their deaths with resignation and without a fight.

Or the IRS, where they are well documented as committing horrible financial atrocities on innocent citizens... so to maintain "voluntary compliance" (fear,) they pick out one or two high profile individuals a year and make a highly publicized example out of them.

Is that what would happen? Would you see yourself on TV? As in "California resident fined $50,000 for illegal solar installation… details at 11..." Fie upon thee, evil knave! Shame that rotten bastard!

I truly didn't mean to wax political or philosophical with this question, But I do want to know… Can anybody cite me the actual California county or city code, law or regulation, by number, that spells out a dollar amount, or whatever else they "could" do to you if "caught" with "illegal," unpermitted solar? I can't seem to find anything online, but then again, I'm not a lawyer. Maybe I just don't know where to look.

Like most decisions in life, installing unpermitted solar is a matter of risk versus reward….
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They use drones…talkative neighbors , “cash for tips” programs , inspectors going about their day , people that don’t like you..some times they just get lucky and stumble on yer stuff… if there money at stake they will find a way… it’s not called Californication for nothing…..
( oh yea, your ex- wife might rat you out) ….
J.
 
I got city permits but not PG&E permission to operate because I thought I'd be better off with true-up anniversary in spring, giving me a whole winter to burn off surplus.

I rigged a motion sensor at the gate, wired to knock my system offline, so meter reader wouldn't see mechanical meter spinning backwards.
Still, I got a letter that said if I didn't get PTO, they would cut off my power.

Took a couple tries to get net-metering time of use meter. I think I paid twice, and first one was time of use but not net meter. Can't remember any more if the duplicate payment was reimbursed. My true up is end of February.

They haven't bothered me since.

But I did get a bill one month which said I drew 400A continuous during peak time (Noon to 6:00 PM) Monday-Friday, then stuffed almost all that power back off-peak (like night time.) The bill was a couple thousand.

I said the meter wasn't working right. They tested it and said it was fine. I said that if I drew 400A for 6 hours through a 200A service, wire would have reached 270C and melted the insulation. I told them net consumption was correct, in line with previous month, just the on/off peak split was incorrect and they ought to estimate the bill assuming same ratio as previous month. That is what they did.

There had been a solar storm that month, but neither binary nor BCD single bit flip explained the meter reading.
 
I think some people on here still have those lovely old Analog meters.
I have heard about people who had Solar along with an Analog meters 10 years ago.
They could run the Meter backwards in the Daytime and then draw power at night and basically zero out their bill without any batteries. That must have been Sweet!
 
My brother is an inspector for the state of Florida. He told me they do have the real time skyview of people houses. But he said people give over their rights to fast. He said put up a no trespass sign, and tell them they can not trespass. And he said inspectors really don’t have authority in non-incorporated areas but people will just let the inspectors in.
 
Clipper81 said:
What are the actual FINES if they catch you with unpermitted Solar in California?

...
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Have no idea. I do know that back when I lived in an area (Washington State) that had all the planning commissions, building departments, State health inspectors, Forestry departments,a half a dozen other bureaucratic fiefdoms and petty tyrants, that doing anything without prior permit would get you a Official Notice and Sanction. Often that started with a Red Tag. You had to correct the issue or face various forms of increasing pressure to do so that could included fines and even government work crews (that you were on the hook to pay) that demolished things.

Electrical company compliance is usually going to simply result in Service disconnect until you can correct the issue and be inspected.

Yes there are many folks that skirted the rules and get away with it. As you say it is risk versus reward. If you live in such an authoritarian area the risk is high.
 
Danke said:
Did they make you shut down your operation until you were properly permitted? Any fines?
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lol
Years ago the house next to me was a grow house. Cops raided it and removed a U-Haul full of plants. The city took the house and it sat empty for over a year and it went up for auction. They pulled new cable from the street because the grower had cut into the cable below the meter. The owner/contractor was whining about the cost. Yeah we figured that they (grower) were doing something, but they were quiet neighbors.
 
740GLE said:
With seasonal loads, it’s a crap shoot at what loads come and go. I really thinks you give the utilities and the kilowatt cops too much credit.

I’ve ranged from 400-800Kwhr over the course of a few months.
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I have had friends and a family member who, for legitimate reasons, had substantial reductions in their electric usage over a period of time. They each got a knock on the door from the local utility company who came poking around looking for answers and asking questions. When the owner explained why the consumption had dropped they were satisfied and left. None of these homes had a smart meter at the time.

However, I have never had the same thing happen when power consumption increases dramatically. I even had a friend who's power consumption increased for no apparent reason. He could not explain the increase and asked the utility for help in figuring out why his bill was so high. The utility was not sympathetic or willing to help track down the answer. After about 6 or 8 months he discovered the source of the problem. It was a damaged underground wire feeding power to his garage. It was leaking current into the ground.
 
green mountain boys said:
I have had friends and a family member who, for legitimate reasons, had substantial reductions in their electric usage over a period of time. They each got a knock on the door from the local utility company who came poking around looking for answers and asking questions. When the owner explained why the consumption had dropped they were satisfied and left. None of these homes had a smart meter at the time.

However, I have never had the same thing happen when power consumption increases dramatically. I even had a friend who's power consumption increased for no apparent reason. He could not explain the increase and asked the utility for help in figuring out why his bill was so high. The utility was not sympathetic or willing to help track down the answer. After about 6 or 8 months he discovered the source of the problem. It was a damaged underground wire feeding power to his garage. It was leaking current into the ground.
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Your local friendly Vermont utility? Or another place in the country?
 
green mountain boys said:
I have had friends and a family member who, for legitimate reasons, had substantial reductions in their electric usage over a period of time. They each got a knock on the door from the local utility company who came poking around looking for answers and asking questions. When the owner explained why the consumption had dropped they were satisfied and left. None of these homes had a smart meter at the time.

However, I have never had the same thing happen when power consumption increases dramatically. I even had a friend who's power consumption increased for no apparent reason. He could not explain the increase and asked the utility for help in figuring out why his bill was so high. The utility was not sympathetic or willing to help track down the answer. After about 6 or 8 months he discovered the source of the problem. It was a damaged underground wire feeding power to his garage. It was leaking current into the ground.
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Exactly! And all the laws are on their side! This must Change!
 
We are all becoming more and more living by the “ Golden Rule” …NO..not the one we were taught as youngsters…the other Golden Rule…

“He who owns the Gold , makes the Fn rules.”
 
John.DS99 said:
Get a permit for a small cheap system with more panels than you think you need.

Later, install what the hell you want.
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That’s a pretty darn good idea…especially if ya live in normal area..…👍,,…

My plan for the last 10 years has been mtn land at the end of a dead end road where I cannot see another house or person anywhere.…. Not easy to do but no one bothers ya …

The best best neighbors are no neighbors…..It solves so many problems in life…

J.
 
JRH said:
...

My plan for the last 10 years has been mtn land at the end of a dead end road where I cannot see another house or person anywhere.…. Not easy to do but no one bothers ya …

...
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That is my place for the last 26 years. Though about 10 years back I did get a neighbor around a 1/4 mile from me. Turned out to be a good friend. I don't see him or his wife but once a week or so. But it is handy to have someone around for when doing it myself becomes difficult. I am at the end of a 2/3 mile road that I built off the County dirt road (3.5 miles to the highway). That road has about 3 cars that travel it in the morning as more distant neighbors head to work and again in the afternoon when they come home. If I walk in between those times I am likely to not see a soul.

Not for everyone to live remote. Some folks need others around them.
 
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