In truth, goodman and amana are both owned by parent company Daiken.
Yes, goodman does have some models that are identical to amana.
Just installed some EasyStarts on 5 ton AC
- Thread starter Will Prowse
- Start date
Yes, goodman does have some models that are identical to amana.
Dave911
Solar Enthusiast
Soft starts are obviously limiting the current to the motor during startup. And it appears from Wills photos that they are adding to the starting capacitor. Its a smart device apparently so it can attempt to protect the motor if the current draw continues for too long.
Soft starters should employ a method of altering the voltage to the motor and ramping up as the rpm’s increase.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
@Will Prowse I'm really glad you did a soft-start upgrade and documented/video'd it for folks. I'd point out the obvious but many coming "to the solar universe" haven't any idea about softstart systems and where they would apply. Several people are building "fresh" from the ground up and without realizing it may actually be buying/installing solar-unfriendly gear.
I feel it would be prudent to tell folks about where and when devices with Softstart should be installed. It is a heck of a lot better to buy & install equipment that is Solar Ready as it were.
Large AC Systems, Well Pumps (that's a biggy many mess up on) and now there are even Softstarting fridges/freezers coming on the market in parallel with Heatpump fridges & dryers etc... (Many of which actually qualify for rebates & incentives too)
Well pumps like my GrundFos SQ-5 starts @ 550W and stages up to 1400W by the time it reaches 52PSI cutoff and is very Inverter Friendly.
It kind of falls into the "Cheaper to conserve than to generate & store" category in a way.
I feel it would be prudent to tell folks about where and when devices with Softstart should be installed. It is a heck of a lot better to buy & install equipment that is Solar Ready as it were.
Large AC Systems, Well Pumps (that's a biggy many mess up on) and now there are even Softstarting fridges/freezers coming on the market in parallel with Heatpump fridges & dryers etc... (Many of which actually qualify for rebates & incentives too)
Well pumps like my GrundFos SQ-5 starts @ 550W and stages up to 1400W by the time it reaches 52PSI cutoff and is very Inverter Friendly.
It kind of falls into the "Cheaper to conserve than to generate & store" category in a way.
On simple central air conditioning systems (non heat pump) there are a couple of other things that can greatly decrease the inrush. First, install a delay for start of the condenser (outside unit) set at 5 seconds. This lets the blower get up to speed so you don’t have both starting at once. That big squirrel cage takes a surprising amount of energy to get moving. Use a “ delay on make” timer. In series with that timer I also use a “delay on break timer” (easy starts already have this feature) that keeps the condenser from immediately restarting right after it’s been on, set at 10 minutes. It wont delay the start if it’s been longer. Many smart thermostats (Nest) aren’t that smart and under just the right conditions or power interruptions the condenser can restart too soon putting tremendous load on it. If you’re installing an easy start, while you’re there, I’d install a new capacitor, they are cheap and don’t last forever. While you got it open it’s easy to put these things in.
Timers;
Timers;
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FLD
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2021
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- 149
Will, you're right about the manual. I installed an EasyStart on our camper's 15,000 btu rooftop air conditioner. Thank goodness for YouTube and the folks that post detailed videos. I'd be lost if I had to follow the instruction manual.
Also, you're right about them being a bit pricey. One for our home's six year-old 3-ton unit is $370. It's my opinion that it's worth it though.
Again, thanks for showing your installation.
Also, you're right about them being a bit pricey. One for our home's six year-old 3-ton unit is $370. It's my opinion that it's worth it though.
Again, thanks for showing your installation.
There is a cheaper alternative to an Easystart.
They are called “hard start kits” and have been around for many years. They are much cheaper, approx $ 20 vs $ 360+. They are not as good, but they do work. From what I’ve observed they are about 50-85% as effective as the Easystart. Hard start kits are made by several different entities and some are absolute junk, so read the reviews before buying. Hard starts do reduce the inrush load on the power source, but do momentarily increase the current on the compressor from before. Once running they draw exactly the same run current as before. The Easystart makes things easier all around, on your power supply and the compressor. The only thing that I have seen, but couldn’t definitively confirm because of different time frames is that the Easystart seemed to draw a few amps more than before while running and stablized. If others could verify before and after, that would be great. In either case, replace the run capacitor, neither type works well with a sick capacitor.
They are called “hard start kits” and have been around for many years. They are much cheaper, approx $ 20 vs $ 360+. They are not as good, but they do work. From what I’ve observed they are about 50-85% as effective as the Easystart. Hard start kits are made by several different entities and some are absolute junk, so read the reviews before buying. Hard starts do reduce the inrush load on the power source, but do momentarily increase the current on the compressor from before. Once running they draw exactly the same run current as before. The Easystart makes things easier all around, on your power supply and the compressor. The only thing that I have seen, but couldn’t definitively confirm because of different time frames is that the Easystart seemed to draw a few amps more than before while running and stablized. If others could verify before and after, that would be great. In either case, replace the run capacitor, neither type works well with a sick capacitor.
No.
Not even similar.
A hard start kit pulls MORE amps on startup, but for less time, so the compressor has a big boost to startup under loads etc.
A soft starter uses a pwm device to shift the voltage lower so the motor starts at a much lower rpm, and slowly ramps up to full speed, eleminating the startup surge, allowing a much smaller inverter or generator to run the motor.
Balrog006
Solar Enthusiast
I installed one of these (390 model I think) on my traditional AC unit. It was drawing something like 135A in startup and aside from the possibility of being able to run or start it on my 30a/7500W generator I wanted the inrush lowered to shock my 15k less. It’s down to an average of around 32-35A on startup and runs at 12.5A or six. The generator can pull off running it in a pinch and the 15k doesn’t even blink at it.
Install instructions could be simplified, but they pot out a decent video walkthrough-so between that and the wiring diagram on the AC unit it made sense.
Install instructions could be simplified, but they pot out a decent video walkthrough-so between that and the wiring diagram on the AC unit it made sense.
I remember now, the instructions arent as straight forward for someone unfamiliar with AC units besides the varying colors of wires used. I had to consult with the manufacturer a couple times before realizing the start capacitor was bad on my unit. Found a close enough replacement on eBay.
Communication was over email initially and after all verifications of wiring we had a phone call, but customer service was there
Communication was over email initially and after all verifications of wiring we had a phone call, but customer service was there
wheelman55
New Member
Another soft start company. Mainly for power tools with universal motors.
www.raymondinnovations.com
Products
At Raymond Innovations, we offer our patented Torque Tamer soft starters and other innovative electrical products for the every day user. Our game changing products are one-of-a-kind and offer unique solutions to present day electrical problems.
www.raymondinnovations.com
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Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
Maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing but I've had no luck finding a soft starter for my well pump. It's a 220v 3-wire with the big capacitor controller box between the pressure switch and pump. What am I doing wrong or is there no such thing for that application?
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
I am now using a GrundFos deep well pump with Softstart built-in. Many brands have such models or options as well. As for retrofit units, I know they are out there but likely depends on the pump type. I don't think that submersible pumps with everything down the hole can be upgraded easily.
Most Hvac only have a single/dual run capacitor for their compressor with fan connection. No start capacitor present.I remember now, the instructions arent as straight forward for someone unfamiliar with AC units besides the varying colors of wires used. I had to consult with the manufacturer a couple times before realizing the start capacitor was bad on my unit. Found a close enough replacement on eBay.
Communication was over email initially and after all verifications of wiring we had a phone call, but customer service was there
If there is a start capacitor, it will be a black plastic capacitor connected to a relay device, then to the run capacitor connections.
Didn’t say similar or even as good.
All I can say is according to my meter set at inrush on the mains to the unit, it was about half. Is the inrush still happening but too fast for my meter to see, I don’t know. Between the cap and motor was another story, that went way up. What the exact numbers are now I can’t remember but I’ll look at the current when the weather gets warmer. Before hot start install and on inverter when the AC starts I could see the lights dim. Now you can’t tell when it starts. I would have gone with the Easystart which I have done at two other locations but this one has a 24 year old unit and it’ll probably be replaced soon with a hybrid HVAC ( heat pump and nat-furnace) so I couldn’t justify throwing another $ 360 at an old dog.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,853
Those Easy-Starts are maybe $50 worth of hardware and $300 worth of intellectual property.
If the demand was larger there would be good knock-offs.
I did see a VFD for single-phase motors, works for soft start. They said not to run continuously below 80% of full speed.
Now that I think about it, I've come up with IP for a superior easy start. Yet another invention I won't develop.
If the demand was larger there would be good knock-offs.
I did see a VFD for single-phase motors, works for soft start. They said not to run continuously below 80% of full speed.
Now that I think about it, I've come up with IP for a superior easy start. Yet another invention I won't develop.
I been thinking about dedicated VFD for single phase compressor for few years now. I guess it will still require 3 half bridges same as 3 phase inverter but 3rd half bridge can be made smaller because it would only power start winding. And soft start can be implemented in software.
Dave911
Solar Enthusiast
You might be better off replacing the motor with a 3 phase and getting a VFD for the motor with a single phase input. You can change ramp rates on startup usually. Lots of flexibility and they are all off the shelf products. I start up a lot of high end VFDs for speed and torque control in industrial plants. If I was to replace my AC system again, I would look at a 3 phase inverter rated condenser.
I agree 3ph compressor is better. But this is 20 year old R22 system that still works great and I don't want to mess with refrigerant.
Dave911
Solar Enthusiast
Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about an air compressor. My brain slipped out of gear. I've never seen a VFD for a single phase motor. The soft start guys are playing games with the voltage input to the motor during startup, but I can see how that could go wrong pretty easily. It needs to be smart to have a chance at making that work.
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