2000w, 24v solar system

[DASH]

Though You shouldn't have to rely on them. I believe the Battle Born Batteries will shut down (through the internal BMS) before the voltage gets low enough to damage the battery (Check with them to verify). That being said, it's nice to have an inverter where You can adjust the low voltage point that it shuts down at. I'm not sure if the 40amp DC-DC Converter for 12v appliances will shut down before reaching the minimum voltage that the Battle Born Batteries would accept. But like I said before, the internal BMS of the Battle Born Batteries should shut down before reaching the minimum voltage (and any battery damage). As I recall, if the BMS forces the Battle Born Batteries to shut down, there might be something that needs to be done, before they will start up again. Battle Born will have the information on that. I would add a fuse between the battery and the cable, and not rely on the BMS on the Battle Born (just an added safety feature).
Wouldn't hurt to add more solar panels either if You have the room. Currently, You have just enough panels to charge 2 depleted Battle Born batteries on a typical Arizona Summer Day, with the right orientation and no shading. As I recall, the Battle Borns are rated at .5C charge rate. So You can safely charge them at 1,000 watts an hour (You might have to increase the guage of you wires). With the panels You now have, the maximum charge You will get is 400 watts an hour.

Be aware that the 40amp DC-CD converter will consume a few watts even if it's not in use (as will the inverter if on). So, make sure You disconnect the batteries if You aren't using the system.

I'm sure You'll have allot of enjoyment with your system. I have built a system similar to the one You are building. And it's been fun and informative.

 

[guidecca]

I'm not sure if the 40amp DC-DC Converter for 12v appliances will shut down before reaching the minimum voltage that the Battle Born Batteries would accept.

Would a Victron Energy Battery Protect 12/24 Volt 100 amp between the DC-DC converter and the battery or between the DC-DC converter and the 12V Fuse Block prevent low voltage?

​

 

[Dzl]

Would a Victron Energy Battery Protect 12/24 Volt 100 amp between the DC-DC converter and the battery or between the DC-DC converter and the 12V Fuse Block prevent low voltage?

I think the battery protect would need to be between the Battery and the Converter, not after the converter. And yes, if you use the battery protect in this way, it will prevent DC loads from over depleting the battery. This is basically how it is designed to be used.

 

[guidecca]

Can an inline MC4 fuse be used on the positive wire from solar panels coming to the SCC? I'm hearing that every positive wire in every branch should be fused. Wonder if I am missing a fuse somewhere. I have two stand alone breakers, 50A and 25A and a 200A Main Fuse. I have the Fuse Block to my DC appliances. Is there any other fuse precaution I could take to keep the wires from melting with a cloud of dark toxic gas? Where would a cut-off switch be most needed?

 

[Dzl]

Can an inline MC4 fuse be used on the positive wire coming to the SCC? I'm hearing that every positive wire in every branch should be fused.

If you wire the 4 panels in series or in 2 parallel strings, you don't need fuses for the array. You may still want a switch or breaker to manually disconnect the panels from the rest of the system for safety, maintenance, or convenience.

I think the best practice in this case is to size all wiring to handle 2x of the max current (Isc) of your array. With such a small array this should not be difficult.

Wonder if I am missing a fuse somewhere. I have to stand alone breakers, 50A and 25A and a 200A Main Fuse. I have the Fuse Block to my DC appliances. Is there any other precaution I could take to keep the wires from melting with a cloud of dark toxic gas?

I think the core of your system can be adequately protected by the 3 OCP devices you have.
(1) Main battery fuse doubles as inverter circuit protection
(2) 25A breaker protects the DC loads circuit
(3) 50A breaker protects the SCC circuit

Just make sure to size the wiring appropriately.The wire from the battery to inverter and back needs to be at a mininum capable of carrying >200A continuous. In general all wiring needs to be able to handle more than the fuse that protects it.

 

[guidecca]

I have not looked at the inverter charger yet but I think there is a grounding wire somewhere. Should my solar powered system be grounded to the chassis?

 

[Dzl]

Grounding is a sometimes complicated topic, generalized advice is only valid if it fits your system. Generally speaking the below diagram is a fairly typical arrangement, showing the DC side grounding wiring.



The Case-Grounds (pink) are brought back to a single point (usually the negative busbar or a separate grounding busbar) and then that is connected to the vehicle chassis/frame (cyan). This example shows an inverter only, not an inverter charger.

Fortunately for you, you bought an inverter-charger with a great manual and great tech support. They have a section on grounding in the manual which explains how the system should be grounded. You can find the manual in the resource section of this site, or on the Samlex Website.

Grounding is an important topic, if you are not totally confident in your understanding or your ability to implement it, it is advisable to find a professional to do the install or at the least look over your plans. I am not experienced enough or comfortable giving specific advice on grounding, particularly as it relates to inverter-chargers in mobile systems. I can try to help you understand general principles though or point you towards resources.

 

[guidecca]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyone trying to help me but I cannot do this project. I have over $6 Grand in obscure electrical tools and equipment that is growing ever bigger with every passing day. Solar has been a curse. It may be the holidays but for me it is trying to figure out how to get AC power out of a $1200 60 lbs fancy pile of crap. I needed an inverter with at least one three prong plug to plug either an extension cord or a laptop into. What I've got is a neurosis over whether or not I am going to die in an electrical fire in a van. I'm sure someone can figure it out, just not me. Part of this experiment was about to DIY; the other part was getting help online. There's nobody here. There are no plans, no video, no help in setting up AC electricity. I guess I'll hire an electrician to salvage this and pay him $155/hour.

 

[Dzl]

You are making good progress, I know it can be overwhelming and there are many hidden costs. And for those of us not formally trained or super comfortable/familiar with electrical it can be daunting.

While I think it might be a good choice to hire a professional if you are not comfortable, and getting stressed by the learning/design process, I also want to point out that there is a lot of space between 100% DIY and "just hire someone to do it". You could for instance hire someone to help with the design, or review your work or do only the AC part of the install (or whatever you are least comfortable with).

I am sorry that it is causing you stress, myself and others on the forum can provide non-professional help where possible, but I am certainly not an expert in any of this.

 

[HaldorEE]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyone trying to help me but I cannot do this project. I have over $6 Grand in obscure electrical tools and equipment that is growing ever bigger with every passing day. Solar has been a curse. It may be the holidays but for me it is trying to figure out how to get AC power out of a $1200 60 lbs fancy pile of crap. I needed an inverter with at least one three prong plug to plug either an extension cord or a laptop into. What I've got is a neurosis over whether or not I am going to die in an electrical fire in a van. I'm sure someone can figure it out, just not me. Part of this experiment was about to DIY; the other part was getting help online. There's nobody here. There are no plans, no video, no help in setting up AC electricity. I guess I'll hire an electrician to salvage this and pay him $155/hour.

That is why companies like Eco Flow and Goal Zero are thriving. Don't sweat it, we are doing this ourselves because we want to. If all you want is a solar powered AC outlet then buy an all in one and hook it up to a few solar panels.

 

[guidecca]

Kind of wonder how one becomes a solar enthusiast. How does one draw a perfect diagram, source all the correct parts, take pictures of all the correct parts still in their containers, and install the solar powered system without either electrical training and lots of money OR paying someone with that kind of training lots of money to do it. The whole business with the videos and using a battery protect improperly in a DIY video threw me for a loop. As for Eco Flow and Goal Zero, Will even said the All-In-One MPP is his new favorite system. Back in October the company could not guarantee delivery of the MPP system. I surely would have bought one or should have. Are they any good?

 

[HaldorEE]

Kind of wonder how one becomes a solar enthusiast. How does one draw a perfect diagram, source all the correct parts, take pictures of all the correct parts still in their containers, and install the solar powered system without either electrical training and lots of money OR paying someone with that kind of training lots of money to do it. The whole business with the videos and using a battery protect improperly in a DIY video threw me for a loop. As for Eco Flow and Goal Zero, Will even said the All-In-One MPP is his new favorite system. Back in October the company could not guarantee delivery of the MPP system. I surely would have bought one or should have. Are they any good?

I am EE and learning about this was just natural for me. Designing systems and drawing schematics is what I do in my day job.

One thing I have learned is that is very much a buyers beware market. There is a lot of junk being sold that you don't want to trust. Trying a save a couple of bucks in the wrong way can definitely cost you big (if you end up ruining a set of lithium batteries).

One brand I have very high confidence in is Victron. I have purchased a Multiplus and a BMV-712 so far. Very nicely designed and manufactured equipment. I am going to order a Smart Solar 20/100 and a Orion-TR 12/24-15 next month as I complete my electrical system install.

On the electrical components side, stuff sold for yachts by companies like Blue Sea are worth checking out. I purchased most of my components from Paul Kennedy at www.pkys.com. You might want to read some of the articles he has about solar and mobile electrical systems on his website. Paul is a licensed yacht electrical system designer and installer. He really knows what he is talking about. His prices are right in line with what I was able to find elsewhere.

I have no idea about the merits of the all in one solar power stations beyond what I have seen in videos. I was originally thinking about getting an Echo-flow, but when I started, the largest inverter they made was 1000W and I want to run a microwave oven. The quest to do that is what got me going down the DIY path. Be aware, powering a microwave oven is not as trivial a task as you may think.

The DIY path has also recently gotten a lot more attractive with the cheap 280 AH cells we can get now. You can put together a 24V@280AH (7200Wh) lithium battery pack with a BMS for less than $1K. That same amount of battery power purchased from Battleborn would cost > $6000.

 

[HaldorEE]

P.S.

In my opinion, Victron's pricing is very competitive for equipment I am actually be willing to use. Forget what the cheap crap costs. That is like comparing a harbor freight table saw with an old Rockwell or a SawStop. You really do get what you pay for and you don't get what you don't pay for. Once you actually start using it, you realize that what the cheap crap left out really isn't something you want to do without.

 

[HaldorEE]

It would be wise to do your own research and take some of Will's recommendations with a grain of salt. For example, I don't like the Giandell inverters he recommends at all. Their low voltage disconnect threshold is too low and there is no easy way to control them remotely. That is two big strikes against them.

In my opinion, the lowest price inverter I would be willing to consider is the Xantrex (I think I linked them earlier). They are HF, but the important stuff is programmable and they look to be reasonable quality.

 

[guidecca]

I bought the Samlex EVO 2224; AC distribution is my latest rabbit hole. I thought it might have an AC receptacle but no such luck. Looking at this distribution panel: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center,

https://tinyurl.com/ycgakpjz.

Or maybe Square D by Schneider Electric QO2L30SCP QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center, https://tinyurl.com/ycen5sgm. May have to hire someone to do it; I'm not at "square one" but definitely behind schedule.

​

​

 

[HaldorEE]

I bought the Samlex EVO 2224; AC distribution is my latest rabbit hole. I thought it might have an AC receptacle but no such luck. Looking at this distribution panel: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center,

https://tinyurl.com/ycgakpjz.

Or maybe Square D by Schneider Electric QO2L30SCP QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center, https://tinyurl.com/ycen5sgm. May have to hire someone to do it; I'm not at "square one" but definitely behind schedule.

​

​

The Samlex is an excellent inverter. The Victron doesn't come with an outlet either.

Adding an AC outlet is pretty simple. You need a 15A duplex AC outlet and a short piece of power cable. I use MC12/2, but a lot of people use Romex 14/2 or 12/2.. The black wire is hot and gets wired to the narrow slot in the outlet, the white wire is the return and get wired to the narrow slot in the outlet. The green or bare copper wire goes to the ground of the outlet (ends up being the round pin).

I would use a ground fault interrupt outlet which makes things safer in the event of a wiring fault.

You will need a 15A circuit breaker between the inverter output and the outlet. The circuit breaker is used to disconnect the black wire from the outlet. Check out the breaker products PKYS sells.

The shore power connection is a bit more complicated, depending on which power inlet you chose to use. You will need a breaker on the shore power inlet side as well.

All of the breakers in my system are Blue Seas brand. Paul Kennedy sells panel mount breakers and panels at a very reasonable cost. No reason to use a residential syle breaker in a small system.

Something like this would be fantastic.

Traditional flat metal panels with AC Main and distribution circuit breakers

Individual breakers.

Blue Sea Systems 7210 Single Pole Circuit Breaker 15 Amps White

 

[HaldorEE]

If you are in Phoenix, I would be glad to show you how to do this. You can find YouTube videos that show how to wire an outlet.

 

[guidecca]

Thank you HaldorEE. Maybe we'll see you in Phoenix. I was watching a video with the following description of Inverter Charger to AC Distribution here: https://www.explorist.life/diy-solar-electric-install-on-a-1976-airstream-argosy/. Nate Yarbrough used one of these: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center, here:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Home Audio & Theater

Buy WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Power Converters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

tinyurl.com

.

Product Description:
The 8930/50 Series can be a 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC distribution center. It has 15 available DC, and up to 12 AC, branch circuits. The 8930/50 can be coupled with any of the WF-9800 switch mode converters with 55, 65, or 75 Amps, which gives engineers more flexibility in product design. The WFCO 8930/50 Series distribution center comes with the WFCO Two-Year Limited Product Warranty. These distribution panels have many features desired by the OEM and retail customers, and have been tested by the Underwriters Laboratories? (UL) to meet both the US and Canadian standards. Our 9800 Series converters used with the 8930/50 centers are designed to comply with FCC Class B, assuring quiet operation and non-interference with other appliances. Nominal 13.6 VDC output voltage of the switch mode 9800 Series converter is easier on electronics, motors, and other appliances. There is no need for the battery to be inline to filter the circuits.

Inverter Charger to AC Distribution AND Shore Power to Inverter/Charger seem to be related but I'm not sure how to do it. Are they two separate and distinct projects; I wonder how you will do this. Is the above description regarding 9800 Series Converters part of this conversation? After setting up the distribution panel and breakers, what equipment will you use for shore power/generator?

Thanks again!

 

[guidecca]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

 

[Dzl]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

Their CS is known for being pretty solid. Were you asking for a specific product reccomendation or specific wiring instructions? That may be beyond what they are comfortable with legally.

 

[guidecca]

Me:
I am setting up my 24V mobile solar-powered system. I am stuck at AC distribution. Is there a tutorial for how to wire AC and can you recommend a distribution panel. I was thinking this might work: https://tinyurl.com/yalffbtj. This panel has AC and DC but may not work with a 24V system. Or this: traditional flat metal panel: https://shop.pkys.com/AC-Main-Branch-Panels_c_89.html. Thank you in advance.

Them:
We can not provide any recommendations on AC wiring James due to the potential safety. We can only recommend that you engage a licensed electrician to do the work. (applications engineer)

 

[HaldorEE]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

These require hardwired electrical outlets, circuit breakers etc. Like wiring a house. The vendors assumption is you either you or the person doing the install knows what they are doing. When techies are talking to other techies we tend to assume comparable experience and skill sets. Simple to me must be simple to everyone. I see so many comment here about how simple a high capacity battery pack is to DIY. Sure it is simple if you know what you are doing, but it can be a very expensive and possibly dangerous ordeal if you do it wrong.

The biggest problem is you did this backwards. If you needed someone else to do the work, that is who you want to buy the equipment through. Pick the vendor and have them quote, supply and install the equipment. That way they have skin in the game if it doesn't work (they are on the hook for the warrantee). I realize that doesn't help you now.

I would think that anybody that repairs RV systems could handle installing your Samlex. Camper World for example would be someone I would reach out to. It isn't going to be cheap, but whoever you hire isn't going to be making any money off the sale of the equipment. Start hunting on-line for somebody like this in your area. I know nothing about this company, they just popped up when I searched for "RV solar power installers in california"

https://www.qualityrvsolar.com/

 

[HaldorEE]

Thank you HaldorEE. Maybe we'll see you in Phoenix. I was watching a video with the following description of Inverter Charger to AC Distribution here: https://www.explorist.life/diy-solar-electric-install-on-a-1976-airstream-argosy/. Nate Yarbrough used one of these: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center, here:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Home Audio & Theater

Buy WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Power Converters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

tinyurl.com

.

Product Description:
The 8930/50 Series can be a 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC distribution center. It has 15 available DC, and up to 12 AC, branch circuits. The 8930/50 can be coupled with any of the WF-9800 switch mode converters with 55, 65, or 75 Amps, which gives engineers more flexibility in product design. The WFCO 8930/50 Series distribution center comes with the WFCO Two-Year Limited Product Warranty. These distribution panels have many features desired by the OEM and retail customers, and have been tested by the Underwriters Laboratories? (UL) to meet both the US and Canadian standards. Our 9800 Series converters used with the 8930/50 centers are designed to comply with FCC Class B, assuring quiet operation and non-interference with other appliances. Nominal 13.6 VDC output voltage of the switch mode 9800 Series converter is easier on electronics, motors, and other appliances. There is no need for the battery to be inline to filter the circuits.

Inverter Charger to AC Distribution AND Shore Power to Inverter/Charger seem to be related but I'm not sure how to do it. Are they two separate and distinct projects; I wonder how you will do this. Is the above description regarding 9800 Series Converters part of this conversation? After setting up the distribution panel and breakers, what equipment will you use for shore power/generator?

Thanks again!

That distribution center is like a circuit breaker panel in your home. Still no outlets. I doubt if you need that many branch circuits either.

WFCO Technologies - Innovating the Future of RV Power

WFCO Technologies is committed to simplifying, enhancing, and optimizing every RV owner’s experience through advanced power technology and proven support.

wfcoelectronics.com

Time to stop buying stuff and find somebody local who can design and install a system for you using what you already have. Let them select whatever else is required to complete the system.

 

[HaldorEE]

Take it back there is one AC outlet on the back of that AC distribution panel. I still wouldn't chose that product for your system.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/WFCO_63_8930_50_POWER_CENTER_10-with-space.pdf

 

[guidecca]

You can't pay people to work these days. Covid days is a DIY'er's dream (or nightmare). Here is a video where diagrams are downloadable .pdf and free and include wiring and fuse sizes:

.