2000w, 24v solar system

[guidecca]

Kind of wonder how one becomes a solar enthusiast. How does one draw a perfect diagram, source all the correct parts, take pictures of all the correct parts still in their containers, and install the solar powered system without either electrical training and lots of money OR paying someone with that kind of training lots of money to do it. The whole business with the videos and using a battery protect improperly in a DIY video threw me for a loop. As for Eco Flow and Goal Zero, Will even said the All-In-One MPP is his new favorite system. Back in October the company could not guarantee delivery of the MPP system. I surely would have bought one or should have. Are they any good?

 

[HaldorEE]

Kind of wonder how one becomes a solar enthusiast. How does one draw a perfect diagram, source all the correct parts, take pictures of all the correct parts still in their containers, and install the solar powered system without either electrical training and lots of money OR paying someone with that kind of training lots of money to do it. The whole business with the videos and using a battery protect improperly in a DIY video threw me for a loop. As for Eco Flow and Goal Zero, Will even said the All-In-One MPP is his new favorite system. Back in October the company could not guarantee delivery of the MPP system. I surely would have bought one or should have. Are they any good?

I am EE and learning about this was just natural for me. Designing systems and drawing schematics is what I do in my day job.

One thing I have learned is that is very much a buyers beware market. There is a lot of junk being sold that you don't want to trust. Trying a save a couple of bucks in the wrong way can definitely cost you big (if you end up ruining a set of lithium batteries).

One brand I have very high confidence in is Victron. I have purchased a Multiplus and a BMV-712 so far. Very nicely designed and manufactured equipment. I am going to order a Smart Solar 20/100 and a Orion-TR 12/24-15 next month as I complete my electrical system install.

On the electrical components side, stuff sold for yachts by companies like Blue Sea are worth checking out. I purchased most of my components from Paul Kennedy at www.pkys.com. You might want to read some of the articles he has about solar and mobile electrical systems on his website. Paul is a licensed yacht electrical system designer and installer. He really knows what he is talking about. His prices are right in line with what I was able to find elsewhere.

I have no idea about the merits of the all in one solar power stations beyond what I have seen in videos. I was originally thinking about getting an Echo-flow, but when I started, the largest inverter they made was 1000W and I want to run a microwave oven. The quest to do that is what got me going down the DIY path. Be aware, powering a microwave oven is not as trivial a task as you may think.

The DIY path has also recently gotten a lot more attractive with the cheap 280 AH cells we can get now. You can put together a 24V@280AH (7200Wh) lithium battery pack with a BMS for less than $1K. That same amount of battery power purchased from Battleborn would cost > $6000.

 

[HaldorEE]

P.S.

In my opinion, Victron's pricing is very competitive for equipment I am actually be willing to use. Forget what the cheap crap costs. That is like comparing a harbor freight table saw with an old Rockwell or a SawStop. You really do get what you pay for and you don't get what you don't pay for. Once you actually start using it, you realize that what the cheap crap left out really isn't something you want to do without.

 

[HaldorEE]

It would be wise to do your own research and take some of Will's recommendations with a grain of salt. For example, I don't like the Giandell inverters he recommends at all. Their low voltage disconnect threshold is too low and there is no easy way to control them remotely. That is two big strikes against them.

In my opinion, the lowest price inverter I would be willing to consider is the Xantrex (I think I linked them earlier). They are HF, but the important stuff is programmable and they look to be reasonable quality.

 

[guidecca]

I bought the Samlex EVO 2224; AC distribution is my latest rabbit hole. I thought it might have an AC receptacle but no such luck. Looking at this distribution panel: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center,

https://tinyurl.com/ycgakpjz.

Or maybe Square D by Schneider Electric QO2L30SCP QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center, https://tinyurl.com/ycen5sgm. May have to hire someone to do it; I'm not at "square one" but definitely behind schedule.

​

​

 

[HaldorEE]

I bought the Samlex EVO 2224; AC distribution is my latest rabbit hole. I thought it might have an AC receptacle but no such luck. Looking at this distribution panel: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center,

https://tinyurl.com/ycgakpjz.

Or maybe Square D by Schneider Electric QO2L30SCP QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center, https://tinyurl.com/ycen5sgm. May have to hire someone to do it; I'm not at "square one" but definitely behind schedule.

​

​

The Samlex is an excellent inverter. The Victron doesn't come with an outlet either.

Adding an AC outlet is pretty simple. You need a 15A duplex AC outlet and a short piece of power cable. I use MC12/2, but a lot of people use Romex 14/2 or 12/2.. The black wire is hot and gets wired to the narrow slot in the outlet, the white wire is the return and get wired to the narrow slot in the outlet. The green or bare copper wire goes to the ground of the outlet (ends up being the round pin).

I would use a ground fault interrupt outlet which makes things safer in the event of a wiring fault.

You will need a 15A circuit breaker between the inverter output and the outlet. The circuit breaker is used to disconnect the black wire from the outlet. Check out the breaker products PKYS sells.

The shore power connection is a bit more complicated, depending on which power inlet you chose to use. You will need a breaker on the shore power inlet side as well.

All of the breakers in my system are Blue Seas brand. Paul Kennedy sells panel mount breakers and panels at a very reasonable cost. No reason to use a residential syle breaker in a small system.

Something like this would be fantastic.

Traditional flat metal panels with AC Main and distribution circuit breakers

Individual breakers.

Blue Sea Systems 7210 Single Pole Circuit Breaker 15 Amps White

 

[HaldorEE]

If you are in Phoenix, I would be glad to show you how to do this. You can find YouTube videos that show how to wire an outlet.

 

[guidecca]

Thank you HaldorEE. Maybe we'll see you in Phoenix. I was watching a video with the following description of Inverter Charger to AC Distribution here: https://www.explorist.life/diy-solar-electric-install-on-a-1976-airstream-argosy/. Nate Yarbrough used one of these: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center, here:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Home Audio & Theater

Buy WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Power Converters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

tinyurl.com

.

Product Description:
The 8930/50 Series can be a 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC distribution center. It has 15 available DC, and up to 12 AC, branch circuits. The 8930/50 can be coupled with any of the WF-9800 switch mode converters with 55, 65, or 75 Amps, which gives engineers more flexibility in product design. The WFCO 8930/50 Series distribution center comes with the WFCO Two-Year Limited Product Warranty. These distribution panels have many features desired by the OEM and retail customers, and have been tested by the Underwriters Laboratories? (UL) to meet both the US and Canadian standards. Our 9800 Series converters used with the 8930/50 centers are designed to comply with FCC Class B, assuring quiet operation and non-interference with other appliances. Nominal 13.6 VDC output voltage of the switch mode 9800 Series converter is easier on electronics, motors, and other appliances. There is no need for the battery to be inline to filter the circuits.

Inverter Charger to AC Distribution AND Shore Power to Inverter/Charger seem to be related but I'm not sure how to do it. Are they two separate and distinct projects; I wonder how you will do this. Is the above description regarding 9800 Series Converters part of this conversation? After setting up the distribution panel and breakers, what equipment will you use for shore power/generator?

Thanks again!

 

[guidecca]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

 

[Dzl]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

Their CS is known for being pretty solid. Were you asking for a specific product reccomendation or specific wiring instructions? That may be beyond what they are comfortable with legally.

 

[guidecca]

Me:
I am setting up my 24V mobile solar-powered system. I am stuck at AC distribution. Is there a tutorial for how to wire AC and can you recommend a distribution panel. I was thinking this might work: https://tinyurl.com/yalffbtj. This panel has AC and DC but may not work with a 24V system. Or this: traditional flat metal panel: https://shop.pkys.com/AC-Main-Branch-Panels_c_89.html. Thank you in advance.

Them:
We can not provide any recommendations on AC wiring James due to the potential safety. We can only recommend that you engage a licensed electrician to do the work. (applications engineer)

 

[HaldorEE]

On the other hand, why not take a four receptacle surge protector cut the plug off of it and wire it into the Line out of the inverter charger. Would that work. At least we could get on the road to Cali via Phoenix. Emailed Samlex and they refused to give any recommendations about their $1200 inverter charger and AC distribution boxes. Spend that kind of money, you expect at least a little customer service.

These require hardwired electrical outlets, circuit breakers etc. Like wiring a house. The vendors assumption is you either you or the person doing the install knows what they are doing. When techies are talking to other techies we tend to assume comparable experience and skill sets. Simple to me must be simple to everyone. I see so many comment here about how simple a high capacity battery pack is to DIY. Sure it is simple if you know what you are doing, but it can be a very expensive and possibly dangerous ordeal if you do it wrong.

The biggest problem is you did this backwards. If you needed someone else to do the work, that is who you want to buy the equipment through. Pick the vendor and have them quote, supply and install the equipment. That way they have skin in the game if it doesn't work (they are on the hook for the warrantee). I realize that doesn't help you now.

I would think that anybody that repairs RV systems could handle installing your Samlex. Camper World for example would be someone I would reach out to. It isn't going to be cheap, but whoever you hire isn't going to be making any money off the sale of the equipment. Start hunting on-line for somebody like this in your area. I know nothing about this company, they just popped up when I searched for "RV solar power installers in california"

https://www.qualityrvsolar.com/

 

[HaldorEE]

Thank you HaldorEE. Maybe we'll see you in Phoenix. I was watching a video with the following description of Inverter Charger to AC Distribution here: https://www.explorist.life/diy-solar-electric-install-on-a-1976-airstream-argosy/. Nate Yarbrough used one of these: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center, here:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Home Audio & Theater

Buy WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center: Power Converters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

tinyurl.com

.

Product Description:
The 8930/50 Series can be a 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC distribution center. It has 15 available DC, and up to 12 AC, branch circuits. The 8930/50 can be coupled with any of the WF-9800 switch mode converters with 55, 65, or 75 Amps, which gives engineers more flexibility in product design. The WFCO 8930/50 Series distribution center comes with the WFCO Two-Year Limited Product Warranty. These distribution panels have many features desired by the OEM and retail customers, and have been tested by the Underwriters Laboratories? (UL) to meet both the US and Canadian standards. Our 9800 Series converters used with the 8930/50 centers are designed to comply with FCC Class B, assuring quiet operation and non-interference with other appliances. Nominal 13.6 VDC output voltage of the switch mode 9800 Series converter is easier on electronics, motors, and other appliances. There is no need for the battery to be inline to filter the circuits.

Inverter Charger to AC Distribution AND Shore Power to Inverter/Charger seem to be related but I'm not sure how to do it. Are they two separate and distinct projects; I wonder how you will do this. Is the above description regarding 9800 Series Converters part of this conversation? After setting up the distribution panel and breakers, what equipment will you use for shore power/generator?

Thanks again!

That distribution center is like a circuit breaker panel in your home. Still no outlets. I doubt if you need that many branch circuits either.

WFCO Technologies - Innovating the Future of RV Power

WFCO Technologies is committed to simplifying, enhancing, and optimizing every RV owner’s experience through advanced power technology and proven support.

wfcoelectronics.com

Time to stop buying stuff and find somebody local who can design and install a system for you using what you already have. Let them select whatever else is required to complete the system.

 

[HaldorEE]

Take it back there is one AC outlet on the back of that AC distribution panel. I still wouldn't chose that product for your system.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/WFCO_63_8930_50_POWER_CENTER_10-with-space.pdf

 

[guidecca]

You can't pay people to work these days. Covid days is a DIY'er's dream (or nightmare). Here is a video where diagrams are downloadable .pdf and free and include wiring and fuse sizes:

.

 

[HaldorEE]

Check this out.

All in one box, 15A circuit breaker, CFGI protected duplex outlet. This might be exactly what you are looking for.

Electronic Components & Supply Online Store | ASI

Need automation components and parts? Check out ASI's vast inventory of electronic components for automation and industrial applications.

www.asi-ez.com

 

[guidecca]

Check this out.

All in one box, 15A circuit breaker, CFGI protected duplex outlet. This might be exactly what you are looking for.

Electronic Components & Supply Online Store | ASI

Need automation components and parts? Check out ASI's vast inventory of electronic components for automation and industrial applications.

www.asi-ez.com

Looks like it might work. This Samlex Evo 2224 inverter charger is very technical; not basic electricity and electronics. It appears to have many features like charging but the "Warnings" are spooking me.

 

[HaldorEE]

Looks like it might work. This Samlex Evo 2224 inverter charger is very technical; not basic electricity and electronics. It appears to have many features like charging but the "Warnings" are spooking me.

Warnings are there to make it harder to sue if you do something dumb.

Like warnings to not use a lawn mower to trim hedges. That warning is there because somebody was dumb enough to do this, got hurt, sued and won money.

To start just hook the AC output up to something like that breaker/outlet using a short piece of electrical cable. I prefer to use MC12-2 wire. This is metal armored cable designed for 120VAC wiring at 20A.

You can buy this with the metal shield preterminated which saves effort on your part.

Southwire 12/2 x 8 ft. Stranded CU MC (Metal Clad) Armorlite Modular Assembly Quick Cable Whip 58947614 - The Home Depot

Southwire's Armorlite Type MC Quick Pre-cut Length Whips are suitable for branch, feeder and service power distribution in commercial, industrial, institutional and multi-residential buildings. They can

www.homedepot.com

You really want to use stranded wire, not solid wire. Heavy vibration or repeatedly flexing solid copper will work harden the copper eventually resulting in broken wires.

 

[HaldorEE]

Double post

 

[guidecca]

Check this out.

All in one box, 15A circuit breaker, CFGI protected duplex outlet. This might be exactly what you are looking for.

Electronic Components & Supply Online Store | ASI

Need automation components and parts? Check out ASI's vast inventory of electronic components for automation and industrial applications.

www.asi-ez.com

Looks good. The company that sells it also makes it but they don't have any in stock. I think there is a one week lead time. Lowes has the Southwire12/2 x 8 ft. Stranded CU MC in stock. Most likely their work force is doing something other than making these boxes and it will be 2-3 weeks to get one if you can get one. Any other boxes that look good?