2021 Honda Generator Carbon Monoxide Indicator

[robby]

I just changed my 16 year old Honda EU3000iS Generator because for the first time ever it failed during operation and shutdown.
Fearing going into Hurricane season without a reliable Generator it was a no brainer to order the same model again. BTW after tearing down the old one down to the bone I found out that it was just the low oil sensor had gotten stuck (duh) and needed cleaning.

I had already paid for the replacement and just figured at 16 years I was pushing my luck depending on a Genny this old and it would not hurt to have two as I could run them in parallel if needed. I modified the first one weeks after I first got it and added a solenoid for the choke and a remote start cable that is inside the house by the Transfer Panel. I had planned on transferring my DIY system to the new one and keeping the old one in the garage as an after the storm backup or if extra power was needed.

The problem is I did not read all the fine print about the CO Minder. I now know It will shutdown the Generator if the CO gets too high. The sensor will also need replacing every 10 years and Honda is not saying how that will be done. The biggest issue is that I have it in a well vented small generator Cabinet to the side of the house and the exhaust is ducted out of the Cabinet. So normally all will be well, but during even during a small tropical storm I have seen the wind blowing towards the exhaust port for a minute or so and most likely flooding the housing area with CO breifly. This would mean that during a storm it could trip out on me and there is no way I could go outside and reset it.
I have seen a number of RV guys posting about tearing out their hair over this same issue as they keep theirs in compartments on the RV.

I am going to start tearing down this thing in the next week or so to look for solutions, I was just wondering has anyone else found one already?
I know this is a sensitive topic and some people need these sensors as they don't understand the dangers. I am very aware of the dangers and even have SensorCon Pro CO meter that I clip on to my belt when doing certain jobs or if I am going into certain areas.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Hedges]

Sounds like it is meant to shut down if generator is run indoors.
So long as exhaust moves away from generator, even if it fills your house it will keep running.
Exhaust blowing back into the generator shed could as well blow into the house.
How about a well sealed exhaust pipe, going above the roof of your house?

I recall Onan generators to be installed in an shed were "Vacuflow", the cooling fan sucked instead of blowing, so any fumes or exhaust leaks would get sucked up and discharged outside.

 

[robby]

Sounds like it is meant to shut down if generator is run indoors.
So long as exhaust moves away from generator, even if it fills your house it will keep running.
Exhaust blowing back into the generator shed could as well blow into the house.
How about a well sealed exhaust pipe, going above the roof of your house?

I recall Onan generators to be installed in an shed were "Vacuflow", the cooling fan sucked instead of blowing, so any fumes or exhaust leaks would get sucked up and discharged outside.

Yes that was what is was meant to do. I think it was an Obama Era Law that was to take effect for all portable generators in 2021. When Trump came in he did an override and killed the law. Some of the larger companies like Honda had already started to make units to comply while others seemed to have lobbied to get it removed and did nothing.

The EU3000 has a pretty good fan inside that pushes the exhaust and heat out of the unit, so it's really easy to make a pressurized enclosure that stays cool yet keeps the elements away form the unit. I might have to just put a fan on the unit or interface a pipe from the outside air directly over the sensor. I doubt that just taping it over would work, as I don't even see a sample inlet. Who knows, maybe it just runs a kill wire to the same low oil level kill switch. The Schematics supplied have become a lot more cryptic with this one versus the older version, so I will have to pull it open and start tracing the wires, that's if I don't find anyone that has done it already.

 

[Hedges]

Scheduled to not kick in until an entire term later? Sounds like what Congress would do.

Trump administration scuttling CO rule on portable generators

Portable generators release more carbon monoxide — which is particularly dangerous because it is odorless and invisible — than most cars. As a result, the devices can kill efficiently and quickly, though accidentally; and a federal rule to protect the public may soon be undone.

ctmirror.org

Congress passes bill to require carbon monoxide detectors in public housing

“No family should worry about dying in their sleep,” Rep. Jesús “Chuy” García, D-Ill., who wrote an earlier version of the legislation, said in a statement. “The government must take responsibility for the safety of working families in housing it provides, and passage of this bill is a major step to provide safe housing for all families.”

Good luck with that. As a landlord, I've taken to having new tenants initial and sign a number of items in a disclosure, including one that says I've demonstrated the smoke alarm and it has a "hush" button to silence nuisance alarms. Must never be disconnected. Still, when they move out I find the battery removed and the AC power wires in ceiling disconnected from it.

Anyone could buy and plug in a CO alarm. Costs about as much as a pair of sneakers. I did because I considered the possibility of leak in furnace flue that goes through wall from basement. Went off once, when I forgot oven and left it on all night. California later made them mandatory for homes with gas appliances or attached garage, but I didn't wait for the government to require me to protect myself. New law requires CO alarm to cease working after 5 years (no resettable prior warning, one evening it just starts beeping and you have to disable and be without until you obtain replacement.)

A friend of a friend had previously used a hibachi to heat the microbus she and her son were sleeping in - you can guess the outcome.

Instead of laws requiring government and business to protect people, how about public education teaching people the facts of life (and death)? Oh, I forgot. There are much more important topics they need to focus on.

 

[JAS]

I've had two oil sensors go bad on generators. After beating my head against a wall a few times, I bypassed them and they started right up no problem. Just like the low oil sensors... I'm guessing there is some way to bypass/disable that CO sensor too...

I keep my generator in a detached shed (with an exhaust fan cutout on the back of the shed). When I was shopping for a new generator, I also avoided any models that had a CO sensor for the same reason that you're concerned about.

 

[robby]

Yep got caught not doing my home work !
it rarely happens, but this time I figured is was just an alarm, not a kill swift

 

[Charlie Woods]

I'm guessing there is some way to bypass/disable that CO sensor

^-- This.

Often one can simply connect the wires which lead to either side of a sensor.

Doing so has saved me thousands of dollars over the years as replacement sensors are often no longer available for older equipment.

 

[robby]

^-- This.

Often one can simply connect the wires which lead to either side of a sensor.

Doing so has saved me thousands of dollars over the years as replacement sensors are often no longer available for older equipment.

Here’s hoping your right.
I won’t know for a few weeks as my time right now is consumed trying to get the solar installation completed. I would normally be very optimistic about it being a simple wire cut or bridge but from what I have read these modules are produced by a third party company that supplies several Gen manufacturers. I heard some mention that it has to do with the systems tamper proof tech.

 

[JAS]

Hmm, Those new Honda Inverter Gens are fuel injected now aren't they? If so, then yeah, everything is built into the "computer". Might be really difficult (if not impossible) to bypass. Best bet may be to sell the gen privately and buy another one???? Or... build a lot of ventilation in and try it out ?‍

 

[OM617YOTA]

Bought a 2200i after our recent ice storm and six day power outage; it also has the CO minder. I'm also curious about what you come up with as far as bypassing the sensor.

 

[robby]

Mine is still in the Box, I have at least another 10 days before my PV system will be complete, it's just me and typically one other friend working on it. I will probably start looking at the Honda in about 2-3 weeks time.

 

[OM617YOTA]

When I type "honda co minder" into Google, the first autofill option is "honda co minder disconnect" and the second is "honda co minder bypass".

I don't have time to dig into it now, but clearly there are plenty of other people interested in this as well. I expect there's a solution out there already.

 

[Charlie Woods]

That's good to hear.

I'm in the market for a Honda 2200 to suppliment my old 2000, but don't want one of the CO2 monitor can't be easily bypassed.

 

[Hedges]

I suggest after you figure out how to bypass the CO shutdown, leave it functional until such time as it has activated or failed and you decide you want to run without it. Maybe a toggle switch with positions labeled. Or connectors on a wire, something others are less likely to manipulate.

We often have family members or others who simply don't understand these things. Safety devices can be useful if they don't malfunction.

 

[robby]

When I type "honda co minder" into Google, the first autofill option is "honda co minder disconnect" and the second is "honda co minder bypass".

I don't have time to dig into it now, but clearly there are plenty of other people interested in this as well. I expect there's a solution out there already.

Yes I have seen those and it's always someone asking how do you bypass it and getting no reply.
The second hit is just articles about the new Co Minder feature and how it works.
If you can find something I am not seeing it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[robby]

I suggest after you figure out how to bypass the CO shutdown, leave it functional until such time as it has activated or failed and you decide you want to run without it. Maybe a toggle switch with positions labeled. Or connectors on a wire, something others are less likely to manipulate.

We often have family members or others who simply don't understand these things. Safety devices can be useful if they don't malfunction.

Nah, if your system is in a Gen container in your property you don't want to find out at 2am during a severe storm that the CO minder has activated. My system is hard wired into it's container, its not designed to be lent out or removed. Unless your 6 inches tall there is zero chance you can fit in the box with it and get CO poisoning.

 

[OM617YOTA]

@robby

7:58 mark, he unplugs the sensor and the generator works fine. Edit: NOT TRUE, read Robby's post below.

 

[robby]

@robby

7:58 mark, he unplugs the sensor and the generator works fine.

Thanks, I got so excited to see that it could be just that simple, but.... as I suspected that module is not the sensor itself as it has no air sample intake.

The digital control lines really give away the fact that something more complicated is happening.
I found this in the comment section of that video .

Has anyone been able to operate the unit with the front module disconnected? I disconnected it so it would run under my truck bed cover to keep it out of the weather (still had some ventilation) and it still knew to trip. Overly sensitive pain in the butt feature. Only, with the front module disconnected, there was no way to reset it. The generator wouldn’t start no matter how many times I pulled the string. I had no choice but to reconnect it and use it to clear the fault. The sensor is somewhere else - deeper within the unit. Hopefully, someone will figure out how to bypass it eventually. Very annoying. If you don’t know by now not to sleep next to a running engine and exhaust fumes this little safeguard will only delay the inevitable. The engineers did their homework - made a pretty confounding, hard to overcome feature. That little plastic module does two things - it indicates when there’s a CO trip and it lets you reset the generator so you’re not locked out from being able to restart. The replaceable part is elsewhere.


I really appreciate you guys searching for a solution, if anyone finds one please let me know.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Nicely done! Thank you for digging into that more deeply, you've probably saved me some hassle down the road.

 

[robby]

Nicely done! Thank you for digging into that more deeply, you've probably saved me some hassle down the road.

The guy who produced the video replied to me saying that he did test it again, it's in the video and it did work.
Am I missing something because I do not see a part in that video where he put the Generator back inside the truck and tested it after the "sensor" was disconnected.

It would be so nice if he was right but then I see several comments saying it does not work! I gotta try this myself very soon and see who is right.