2021 Honda Generator Carbon Monoxide Indicator

[OM617YOTA]

I missed it too.

I did just go run my generator in my truck cab with the CO minder intact, and it shut down in under a minute. Went to disconnect the CO minder panel the same way as in the other video and repeat the test, and it turns out the screws are torx security screws. Kind of ashamed to admit I don't have a driver for those. Going to order some and will re-run the test again. I'm getting video, I'll post it to YouTube.

 

[robby]

I missed it too.

I did just go run my generator in my truck cab with the CO minder intact, and it shut down in under a minute. Went to disconnect the CO minder panel the same way as in the other video and repeat the test, and it turns out the screws are torx security screws. Kind of ashamed to admit I don't have a driver for those. Going to order some and will re-run the test again. I'm getting video, I'll post it to YouTube.

I am so looking forward to your results. My Genny is still in the unopened box and I am seriously contemplating flipping it if this thing turns out to be some sort of major ordeal and just buying for the older model if I can still find it.

 

[OM617YOTA]

@robby

Confirmed, disconnecting the CO minder indicator and reset button on the front does not disable the CO minder.

No clue when I'll get the video edited and posted, but that's the results.

 

[robby]

@robby

Confirmed, disconnecting the CO minder indicator and reset button on the front does not disable the CO minder.

No clue when I'll get the video edited and posted, but that's the results.

Thanks for the test, it at least confirms that what others were saying is true. I am a bit disheartened that the guy who made the video will not admit that he never tested it himself. I guess with nearly 1 million views he does not want to look incompetent. If you can even do a 1 minute video it would probably save a whole bunch of people a lot of heart ache.

 

[drifty325i]

I disconnected my CO minder today too, was hoping it would sort the issue but didn’t have time to test, it sounds like it won’t. Bugger. There must be a way around it

 

[Texas-Mark]

Has anyone tried to simply enclose the sensor (i.e. cover it with electrical tape, or put the module in a plastic bag or latex glove) so it can not "sniff" anything?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Has anyone tried to simply enclose the sensor (i.e. cover it with electrical tape, or put the module in a plastic bag or latex glove) so it can not "sniff" anything?

I'd be happy to give this a go, just haven't found the sensor yet. I looked at the IPL but struck out. There was some extra tubing to the carb that might be fruitful to track back. Any ideas?

That'll help some people. Others, like myself, are interested in a bypass so that in ten years, when the sensor is at the end of it's functional lifespan, we don't need the generator and find it won't work because of the failed sensor. This will happen, even with the sensor covered.

 

[robby]

I'd be happy to give this a go, just haven't found the sensor yet. I looked at the IPL but struck out. There was some extra tubing to the carb that might be fruitful to track back. Any ideas?

That'll help some people. Others, like myself, are interested in a bypass so that in ten years, when the sensor is at the end of it's functional lifespan, we don't need the generator and find it won't work because of the failed sensor. This will happen, even with the sensor covered.

It's most likely in an easy to access location. BTW did you try just covering up the small hole by the reset button?
It is possible that this is really the sensor but the unit is smart enough to know that if it does not get back a reading from it in X amount of minutes then shutdown the unit and assume the sensor is defective. Disconnecting the cable may cause this shutdown.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Great idea! I can give that a shot!

 

[robby]

Any news?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Nothing yet, haven't had a chance to give it a shot. It's on my "to do" list, and a big weekend item just got cancelled, so I should be able to get to it this weekend.

If anyone knows where the actual sensor is, I'm happy to experiment along that route. I wasn't even able to find the sensor on Honda's IPL, or find it as a replacement part. I didn't have time to trace the wires from the control panel back to where they go.

The new CO minder generators are only a year or two old, and the sensor is supposed to last ten years, a lifespan which the clock keeps ticking on even while in storage. That in mind, I would expect Honda to wait until year 8-9 after introduction to even start manufacturing replacement sensors.

If the sensor really is the doohickey on the control panel, and costs $20 or some nominal amount, I'll probably just keep replacing the sensor.

 

[robby]

Nothing yet, haven't had a chance to give it a shot. It's on my "to do" list, and a big weekend item just got cancelled, so I should be able to get to it this weekend.

If anyone knows where the actual sensor is, I'm happy to experiment along that route. I wasn't even able to find the sensor on Honda's IPL, or find it as a replacement part. I didn't have time to trace the wires from the control panel back to where they go.

The new CO minder generators are only a year or two old, and the sensor is supposed to last ten years, a lifespan which the clock keeps ticking on even while in storage. That in mind, I would expect Honda to wait until year 8-9 after introduction to even start manufacturing replacement sensors.

If the sensor really is the doohickey on the control panel, and costs $20 or some nominal amount, I'll probably just keep replacing the sensor.

The problem is that it is a ticking time bomb of unreliability. During which blackout does the sensor suddenly die?
I don't think a blackout at any point in time with a malfunctioning Genny is going to be convenient.
For the rest of us with outdoor enclosures it's just a total problem.

 

[OM617YOTA]

The problem is that it is a ticking time bomb of unreliability. During which blackout does the sensor suddenly die?
I don't think a blackout at any point in time with a malfunctioning Genny is going to be convenient.
For the rest of us with outdoor enclosures it's just a total problem.

The manual does specify that a light is supposed to start blinking a year before replacement is needed, and blinking differently six months before replacement is needed. Lots of time to act, as long as one is proactive about it.

But yes, the exact moment of failure is a who knows when, and a dark and stormy night is hardly the time to be trying to track down a specialized doohickey for a generator. Even if your local Honda small engine dealer has stock on a normal day, as the storm is coming, there's bound to be a bunch of other people in exactly the same situation, sourcing exactly the same device.

I'm not too concerned, we have several years to figure out a solution to this problem. Edit: Apologies, I keep forgetting those of you running these in an enclosure. Have you tried running it in the enclosure to see if it actually triggers? Maybe run some silicone tubing, like the model airplane folks use, from the exhaust to the outside of the enclosure?

Edit again: https://www.ebay.com/itm/132760112001

With the price premium of the Honda, someone could probably sell a used Honda, and entirely pay for a brand new Yamaha.

 

[robby]

The manual does specify that a light is supposed to start blinking a year before replacement is needed, and blinking differently six months before replacement is needed. Lots of time to act, as long as one is proactive about it.

But yes, the exact moment of failure is a who knows when, and a dark and stormy night is hardly the time to be trying to track down a specialized doohickey for a generator. Even if your local Honda small engine dealer has stock on a normal day, as the storm is coming, there's bound to be a bunch of other people in exactly the same situation, sourcing exactly the same device.

I'm not too concerned, we have several years to figure out a solution to this problem. Edit: Apologies, I keep forgetting those of you running these in an enclosure. Have you tried running it in the enclosure to see if it actually triggers? Maybe run some silicone tubing, like the model airplane folks use, from the exhaust to the outside of the enclosure?

Edit again: https://www.ebay.com/itm/132760112001

With the price premium of the Honda, someone could probably sell a used Honda, and entirely pay for a brand new Yamaha.

I ran my old one in the enclosue and used my CO2 meter to measure the air in there and it was hovering beetwen 1000 - 1200. They say the new unit trips at 800 so I know I am going to be out of luck. Thanks for the muffler extension link. If all else fails that may be an option.

 

[OM617YOTA]

No luck. Neither taping over the hole in the front, nor pulling the button/light doohickey out of the panel and zip tying a bag over it, made any difference. Still shuts down.

Any other ideas?

 

[robby]

No luck. Neither taping over the hole in the front, nor pulling the button/light doohickey out of the panel and zip tying a bag over it, made any difference. Still shuts down.

Any other ideas?

Thanks for trying the idea, I was doubtful it would work, but at least we can now definitively cross that one off the list.

What now?
Search like hell for a small module on the opposite side from the exhaust, somewhere that has an area where fresh air is pulled in but it is easy to get to from the outside.

I just don't see Honda plan as one involving millions of generators being sent back 10 years from now via freight and then having to be stripped down to get to something deep inside the unit. This has got to be an owner replaceable part and something fairly easy to get to.

 

[Texas-Mark]

Thanks for trying the idea, I was doubtful it would work, but at least we can now definitively cross that one off the list.

Only if the sensor was actually covered. Seems like nobody knows for sure where it actually is located. If a CO senor is sealed completely from the outside air, there is no way it can sense anything and trip. I tried this with a portable CO alarm and it read zero the whole time I left it near the exhaust.

 

[Hedges]

Only if the sensor was actually covered. Seems like nobody knows for sure where it actually is located. If a CO senor is sealed completely from the outside air, there is no way it can sense anything and trip. I tried this with a portable CO alarm and it read zero the whole time I left it near the exhaust.

Did you also remove the cover and take a reading of the exhaust?

My car, when well tuned, is down in the 1 ppm CO range according to smog check. These generators, not having O2 sensor controlling mixture, air injection, or catalyst probably do create enough CO to trip the alarm, but would be interesting to check. Propane equipment (Bobcat, floor polisher) is operated indoors, and I think CO only becomes a problem if O2 levels drop. Gasoline & diesel generators are known for carbon monoxide even operating in fresh air, and if their exhaust gets indoors it can be deadly.

 

[Texas-Mark]

Did you also remove the cover and take a reading of the exhaust?

Yes. Without getting into a lengthy discussion of how my generator is now vented, I know the readings I can get from it when venting is not working.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I'm guessing that the sensor is somewhere in the air intake system. Easy source of a constant stream of the outside air for monitoring. At some point I'm going to have to tear into mine to adjust valves and decarbon the combustion chamber. At that point I'll be happy to peek around some more at it's internal bits.