I'm confused, can you run a 240v us market minisplit a with a 240 output inverter meaning l1, l2 sometimes called a power neutral and a ground, does the l1 and l2 need to be 180 degrees opposite phase?
240vac split phase solution for mini split AC
- Thread starter Houseboat100
- Start date
Yes, the machine doesn't know the difference. Split phase indicates a dual voltage system. Two voltages aren't necessary for the minisplit. It only needs 240 volts.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Note that even if it works for mini-split you have to be mindful of breakers / fuses / etc, to be rated for straight 230V/240V instead of 120/240. Subpanels and breakers. If you use European equipment then it is all straight 230V capable. And then maintenance wise whoever touches this over the system lifespan has to maintain this education and consistency.
Not sure how much cheaper it will be these days or how the supply chain will be, but you will probably have lower idle from running a single inverter instead of two stacked ones (either separately or baked into a single combined unit)
Not sure how much cheaper it will be these days or how the supply chain will be, but you will probably have lower idle from running a single inverter instead of two stacked ones (either separately or baked into a single combined unit)
I can confirm a 230V appliance will hum along happily on split phase, or european 230V AS LONG AS 50hz compatible
Yes. The appliance doesn't know the difference between one system and another. A split phase North American system is different from a European system by the location of the ground connection. Since the ground doesn't affect the operation of the circuit, devices connected don't know the difference.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Besides the rating of switchgear for 120/240V vs 230V, aren't there some other slight differences like whether Ground to Neutral traces are spaced far enough apart for having two hots, and SMPS filter capacitors to ground being referenced differently?
For instance, Ground to Neutral is 0V if Neutral is actually a grounded conductor, but if Neutral is hot then if you have a neutral and ground trace next to each other there will be 120V across that short distance instead of 0V.
(it'll still run)
Now this could be addressed by setting up a single 230V hot leg system. Then it'll work exactly the same, except in a different hemisphere from what it's supposed to.
For instance, Ground to Neutral is 0V if Neutral is actually a grounded conductor, but if Neutral is hot then if you have a neutral and ground trace next to each other there will be 120V across that short distance instead of 0V.
(it'll still run)
Now this could be addressed by setting up a single 230V hot leg system. Then it'll work exactly the same, except in a different hemisphere from what it's supposed to.
Split phase has nothing to do with ground...
It has to do with Neutral... which is bonded to the grounding conductor.
Euro 230V has one L terminal bonded to ground.
Split phase has the center of the transformer tapped out to provide partial voltage to low voltage appliances. The center tap is bonded to Ground.
Both systems use the same GROUND to appliances on 230/240V appliances, as Neutral isnt used on them.
The split phase system is grounded at the center point neutral. The Euro system is grounded on one end. That was my point. The device doesn't care where the ground occurs. It only cares about the voltage across the circuit.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Is all north america HVAC equipment rated (domestic and imported) to run 208V to ground? If not you may still need an AT (that carries no neutral load) to center reference the system to respect the 120V to ground rating.
I import small appliances without caring about this but for something running continuously it seems good to match the specs as closely as possible.
208 volts single phase is two legs of a 3 phase wye connected system. The system with 208 to ground is the 4 wire 240/120 delta high leg system. It is not intended to be used line to neutral on the 208 volt high leg.
My point is that 208-230-240V APPLIANCES dont care where the ground bond is.
Appliances at that voltage do not REFERENCE ground at all.
Then we have the same point.
No system references to ground.
No system at 120 to 560v references to ground.
They reference to N, or another Line.
All systems BOND one conductor to ground for fault tolerance voltage interrupt.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Right but for fault situations and code situations the voltage to ground matters.
For instance breaker type and some sections of EVSE code are relaxed for under 150V to ground.
Right but someone reading this thread might decide to install a 230V L-N inverter and then plug in a 240V heat pump from Home Depot into it. It will then be subject to a voltage to ground that will never be found in a normal install.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Suppose you have a trace for N and one for G on a PCB, with insufficient spacing to prevent dielectric breakdown if 120VAC were present on N. Wouldn’t the board fail?
(Now this could be a dumb example because a floating neutral could also cause this voltage on the neutral traces)
EDIT: Similarly suppose L1 has spacing to ground good for 120VAC but not 230VAC. Then setting up the system with L1 at 230VAC and L0 at 0V would violate this. This is probably less dumb because there are many fewer fault conditions where this can arise on a normal grid.
(Now this could be a dumb example because a floating neutral could also cause this voltage on the neutral traces)
EDIT: Similarly suppose L1 has spacing to ground good for 120VAC but not 230VAC. Then setting up the system with L1 at 230VAC and L0 at 0V would violate this. This is probably less dumb because there are many fewer fault conditions where this can arise on a normal grid.
It PROBABLY won't matter as long as the overcurrent device is rated for that voltage to ground. I say probably because it's likely that the same devices are sold in multiple countries and hence or are just labeled differently.
Im sure that might be an issue with pcb's designed for a specific region...
But ive never seen a piece of equipment that wasnt dual rated, 208/230 50/60 hz...
SupraSPL
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2022
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Thanks fellas, a cheap 230V inverter worked!
For those interested I used a $280 Vevor 24V to 230V 3KVA inverter to run a 240V 60hz Fujitsu 09LZAS1. The inverter has adjustable 50/60hz setting. The Fujitsu pulled 2115 VA in "powerful" mode 22K BTU heating and the inverter and compressor both run great. I measured the inverter at 88% efficient with that load. Typical heating draw will be 1300VA where inverter is over 90% efficient.
Inverter standby power is 22W. It has power saving mode which is 5W but the mini split can't wake it up. No remote switch so I will make a 15' extension and put a switch right in the living room.
The build quality is solid, even the voltage and current readings are accurate. Programming was clear and easy. I think they are selling it cheap because it's an all in one but you can't use the battery charging feature unless you really have access to Europe mains and the MPPT is probably not very desirable at 75V max VOC and 24V 30A charging.
For those interested I used a $280 Vevor 24V to 230V 3KVA inverter to run a 240V 60hz Fujitsu 09LZAS1. The inverter has adjustable 50/60hz setting. The Fujitsu pulled 2115 VA in "powerful" mode 22K BTU heating and the inverter and compressor both run great. I measured the inverter at 88% efficient with that load. Typical heating draw will be 1300VA where inverter is over 90% efficient.
Inverter standby power is 22W. It has power saving mode which is 5W but the mini split can't wake it up. No remote switch so I will make a 15' extension and put a switch right in the living room.
The build quality is solid, even the voltage and current readings are accurate. Programming was clear and easy. I think they are selling it cheap because it's an all in one but you can't use the battery charging feature unless you really have access to Europe mains and the MPPT is probably not very desirable at 75V max VOC and 24V 30A charging.
