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50 amp OTG Victron / Battleborn set up on a 45 foot Toy Hauler

BrettMavriK said:
Greetings,
I am in the information gathering stage of assembling a 50 Amp Off The Grid Boondocking Solar System for my new 45 foot Keystone Fuzion 429 Toy Hauler.
I've spent weeks online trying to absorb all of the information I can while trying not to get steered in the wrong direction.
I am aware that this system I desire is going to come with a hefty price tag.
So far, I think I am set on going all Victron components with the exception of solar panels and batteries, in which I'm leaning toward Battleborn.
As far as Victron componentry, a rough draft would be the 50A Multiplus II Inverter, 2-150/100 MPPT's, Cerbo GX, Lynx, Smartshunt, Display, etc., with all the necessary breakers and fuses, correct wire size, 10-200w panels on the roof, and 10 battle born lithium batteries. For voltage, a 24 volt solar to 12 volt battery bank should be sufficient I believe.
Being a jack of all trades and able to install my own system, I have never delved into solar before now;
however, I do understand the principles of AC, DC, Etc.
This has led me to this thread, as I would really appreciate some feedback and assistance on this endeavor. I would need help on routing and schematic diagrams here. I keep seeing these wonderful layout diagrams depicting Victron and related componentry and how it all connects all over the place.
Is there an app or tool out there for configuring solar systems that you guys are using? Boy, that would be helpful.
So what say you...? Anyone out there care to share their expertise on designing a very robust solar system on a big toy hauler?
Thanks in advance.
'Brett
Click to expand...
I did not see a power requirement in kWh for a day or a max power requirement in kW.

I don’t think anyone has made any mention of the amount of solar panels needed. Please remember if both 50 amp legs of the panel are active, that can pull 10 kw. Running two ACs and an electric water heater will pull 5 kw. This would be numbers from the battery which does include 15% inverter losses.

Solar panel put out around 180 watts per meter squared. I have 1650 watts on top on my 35’ travel trailer. I also have 900 watts I put out on the ground. With that I get 2100 watts total in March at the equinox. If I put solar panels on every square inch of my roof including over the ACs, I would have 3 kw of panels up there.

If you’re interested, my build is listed in my signature block.

IMO, if you are asking for a single leg of 50 amp input, $15k may be doable, but if you are looking for both legs at 50 amps, I don’t see this being possible.
 
Thanks, chrisski.
I do not take delivery of this Keystone Fusion 429 until the 22nd of this month, so I cannot do a real time audit as of yet.
It's 45 feet long and I'll be able to pack it with solar panels. I may not get all three AC's to work, but at least one or two.
What I meant by 50 amp relates to the Victron Multiplus II 50 Amp Pass Through Inverter / Charger. I'm going to use at least three Battleborn Gamechanger 270ah Batteries and two 150/100 Victron MPPT's. I was thinking along the lines of two banks of five - 200 amp solar panels, 24 volt to 12 volt after the MPPT's to a Cerbo GX before the Multiplus II and Batteries. Just a rough simulation at the moment.
I'm going to take a look at your setup, and I'll be back.
 
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Alright, It seems for practical purpose on a system as large as I want, which is the biggest I can possibly fit on my Fuzion 429, that a full 24 volt solar and battery system would be more beneficial in many ways. The problem therein is about a product that isn't made or released yet so it seems. I really like and want to utilize the Victron Multiplus II 120x2 Pass Through Inverter / Charger for the simplicity of the install; however, it is 12 volt only.
Here lies a technological bottleneck that hampers the possibility of more power, pound for pound, in componentry.
Has anyone received any news as to if and when Victron will step up the Multiplus II to 24 volt?
This would be the latest game changer in technology if it became reality.
 
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BrettMavriK said:
Alright, It seems for practical purpose on a system as large as I want, which is the biggest I can possibly fit on my Fuzion 429, that a full 24 volt solar and battery system would be more beneficial in many ways. The problem therein is about a product that isn't made or released yet so it seems. I really like and want to utilize the Victron Multiplus II 120x2 Pass Through Inverter / Charger for the simplicity of the install; however, it is 12 volt only.
Here lies a technological bottleneck that hampers the possibility of more power, pound for pound, in componentry.
Has anyone received any news as to if and when Victron will step up the Multiplus II to 24 volt?
This would be the latest game changer in technology if it became reality.
Click to expand...
Both the 12V and 24V are available in the MPII 2x120. I purchased the 12V model last spring and the 24V model was released shortly after. Here's a link from Amazon for the 24V model Multiplus II 24V 2x120.

Here's the data sheet for the 12V & 24V from Victron https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-II-3kVA-2x120V-EN-.pdf
 
I'm confused in what you are trying to accomplish with the components selected. First you stated a goal of running everything off solar and only use generator as a failsafe. You want to run 1-2 ac units, washer/dryer, and the rest of everyday items. You have selected what I assume is a 3000va Victron Multiplus based off the initial 12v battery bank, because it can pass through 50 amps? How many do you plan to run in parallel to meet the AC requirements?
A 10 panel 2kw array in a 5s2p config sounds good. At 12v system will push 71 amps max per string so why a 100a SCC? Go to 24v and amps get cut in half.
You really need to get an idea of your average and peak power usage to know if that 10kw battery will meet your needs. How many days without sun are you planning for?
Based off your previous statements look at the Victron Quattro 48v 10000va. Skip the battleborn and get at least 4 server rack batteries. Don't paint yourself into a corner with 200w panels. Check the sizes and specs of larger ones. Make a map of the roof and figure out how to best use the space for max watts. Then pick SCC's to take each string.
 
AnarchyJet said:
I'm confused in what you are trying to accomplish with the components selected. First you stated a goal of running everything off solar and only use generator as a failsafe. You want to run 1-2 ac units, washer/dryer, and the rest of everyday items. You have selected what I assume is a 3000va Victron Multiplus based off the initial 12v battery bank, because it can pass through 50 amps? How many do you plan to run in parallel to meet the AC requirements?
A 10 panel 2kw array in a 5s2p config sounds good. At 12v system will push 71 amps max per string so why a 100a SCC? Go to 24v and amps get cut in half.
You really need to get an idea of your average and peak power usage to know if that 10kw battery will meet your needs. How many days without sun are you planning for?
Based off your previous statements look at the Victron Quattro 48v 10000va. Skip the battleborn and get at least 4 server rack batteries. Don't paint yourself into a corner with 200w panels. Check the sizes and specs of larger ones. Make a map of the roof and figure out how to best use the space for max watts. Then pick SCC's to take each string.
Click to expand...
Excellent!
This is why I am here....for the experience and expertise. It saves much waste in time and money to get the pre-guidance of the "been there, done that" people. When one switches up to 24 and 48 volt, albeit less wire size and lower heat load resistance loss, doesn't the system tend to get much more elaborate and heavy, and thus mixing and matching multi-brand parts? I really want Simplicity, light weight; think GVWR on a Toy Hauler where every pound is crucial. The inter-communication of the Victron componentry and control via hardwire, bluetooth, and internet is what really sold me on them. I really do not want to stray from the Multiplus II 120x2 50 amp Pass Through Inverter/ Charger. Now that is has been verified that a 24 Volt Multiplus II 120x2 50 amp Pass Through Inverter exists, I would like to explorer that option. Can It handle much more solar panel array and watts at 24 volt with less resistance and heat, smaller wire size, and same amount of componentry? (Wait, wont I need to replace the stock DC to DC Convertor from 12 volt to 12 volt, to 24 volt to 12 volt?
I would like a Pro's and Con's between a 12 volt battery and a 24 volt battery system.
 
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I just did this build in 12v, but a little smaller than I think you're going for. If I were to make the exact same decision today, I'd literally still be on the fence. One advantage of staying at 12v, is using 24v panels in parallel. It's a small advantage. Smaller wires, smaller buss, and smaller switch is a huge plus. I ran dual 1/0 cables to MP to avoid trying to bend 4/0 in tight space. Small disadvantage, DC-DC to attach 12v to trailer. Especially given the bigger build, I'd probably go with 24v.
.
I love the MP, but it's interesting that it doesn't power share on L2... so you want to do an audit on what runs on L2 vs L1. My primary AC runs on L1, and microwave and coffee make run on L2. It will be a couple of weeks until I get the easy start installed on main AC and see what happens with limited generator capacity on AC and start up the microwave.
 
RoadTurtle said:
I just did this build in 12v, but a little smaller than I think you're going for. If I were to make the exact same decision today, I'd literally still be on the fence. One advantage of staying at 12v, is using 24v panels in parallel. It's a small advantage. Smaller wires, smaller buss, and smaller switch is a huge plus. I ran dual 1/0 cables to MP to avoid trying to bend 4/0 in tight space. Small disadvantage, DC-DC to attach 12v to trailer. Especially given the bigger build, I'd probably go with 24v.
.
I love the MP, but it's interesting that it doesn't power share on L2... so you want to do an audit on what runs on L2 vs L1. My primary AC runs on L1, and microwave and coffee make run on L2. It will be a couple of weeks until I get the easy start installed on main AC and see what happens with limited generator capacity on AC and start up the microwave.
Click to expand...
I can connect L2 and L1 at the Transfer Switch on my Onan QC5500 alternator legs, because this generator isn't actually split phase, in which the MP II will now handle both L1 and L2 using Powershare to make up for the deficit if any from the Batteries and/or Solar Panels . My Solar/Battery System has to be large enough however to offset this deficit share:
 
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BrettMavriK said:
I can connect L2 and L1 at the Transfer Switch on my Onan QC5500 alternator legs, because this generator isn't actually split phase, in which the MP II will now handle both L1 and L2 using Powershare to make up for the deficit if any from the Batteries and/or Solar Panels . My Solar/Battery System has to be large enough however to offset this deficit share:
Click to expand...
I hate Chad, you know how much he has cost me? LOL I had a smaller and admittedly temporary TT when he did his first review of the MP. I decided I wanted it then, but wasn't about to take on for the TT, because I knew the 5th wheel was in our long term plans.

My 5th wheel was ordered generator ready, not sure why I thought I needed it, but have made good use of the installed ATS. I wired a 50a outlet to the front of the trailer, and that is connected to MP, and it's output goes to the generator side of the ATS. The only issue, my EMS while plugged into shore power is not functional. I still haven't resolved how that is going to get incorporated, but I did abandon the idea of running cable from back of the trailer to the front and then back again. But this does allow me to use the small generator plugged into the front and letting MP do it's thing. I'm thinking if I do have to plug into shore power, of letting the rest of solar (way overkill), manage the 12v side and ems (bypassing MP) handle the 120v side. Or like right now, I turn MP to inverter only when I'm not running elec heat or aircon.
 
And this is why I am here doing what I'm doing, which is gathering and drafting a plan with the help of input from others.
I do not want to piece-part-retrofit-change anything. I want to design the solar set up to be solid, robust and optimal from the get go. I'm sold on the Victron MPII 2x120 50A Pass-Through Inverter/ Charger. 12 volt is all that is available, so 12 volt it shall be, with the exception of 24 volt from the two banks of solar panels to the 2 Victron MPPT 150/100's. Then 4 Battleborn Gamechanger 12V 270AH batteries for less wiring and resistance heat build up, and the host of all the other Victron componentry for seamless communication, observation, and control.
One And Done.
 
BobH said:
I'm not sure where you are getting that the Victron Multiplus II 24 Volt 2x120 isn't available? I see it listed on numerous vendor sites & Amazon on the Victron store: https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Ener...pcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1YBXGLP96AA5R
Click to expand...
I keep hearing conflicting information. So, it is available for North America now? If so, now I will have to weigh the pros and cons of going 24 volt. Although it can do 120V/240V, It's only 120v in Inverter mode. The battery wiring gets more complex, along with the need for a different DC to DC converter for the RV's 12 volt system. Anything else I may have missed? Different transfer switch? I'm going to have to read up on the specs of the MPII 24 volt.
 
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After a night of research and reading, and now that the Victron Multiplus II 24 Volt 120 X 2 50A Pass Through Inverter / 70A 24 Volt Charger is available, I am now set on building a 24 Volt System. The benefits are many: smaller wires, less cost, more efficiency, less resistance / heat power loss, etcetera. The only minimal extra cost with be a 24 Volt to 12 Volt DC to DC Converter. I see the light now, and it just makes better sense for a system as big as I want to build. 24 volts is still on the low side, so I would still be comfortable with it. This also means I could step up the Solar panel power and battery storage size. So back to the drawing board again for me as for the selection of total componentry, sizing, and diagram schematic. Anyone have a 24 Volt Victron set up I could check out...? Also, are there better designated 24V Lithium batteries out there beyond the Battleborn batteries I've been looking at? Am I missing anything? 12 volt from generator to 24 volt conversion so the generator can charge the 24 volt battery bank? Just trying to cover all bases.
 
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Here's a diagram of a 24V Quattro system that I believe originated from Victron literature (https://html.scribdassets.com/2t5o6a3da88x1lgt/images/1-08c903cba1.jpg) Remove the Quattro & insert the Multiplus II 24V 2-x120 and you have a basic Victron system including panels, generator, batteries, shore power, etc. The only thing missing is a 24v -12v Dc-Dc converter.
1-08c903cba1.jpg
 
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Beautiful...!
I need to find some sort of design app to do my own plans here.
Okay, so everything here DC is still 24 Volt, and then a 24 to 12 Volt DC to DC converter would come off the 24 VDC distribution panel, to then feed the RV's 12 Volt DC Panel. I like it. Next would be choosing the right Victron DC to DC converter with a safe amperage rating for the RV's entire 12 volt system, including the Generator Starter, and Hydraulic Jacks if they're not AC ; which I am unsure of because I don't pick up the Fuzion 429 until next week. If I ran ten 200 watt solar panels as two pairs of five each at 24 volts and stayed 24 volts then I would need only one Victron MPPT? I'll probably stay with two and go with more solar panels. It looks like the PV wiring is conjoined after the initial breakers in the PV breaker box on this diagram.
 
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