About to buy Sol-Ark 15k. RSD and Optimizer questions..
- Thread starter hpeyerl
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hpeyerl
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Just to add the information to this thread, I think you're referring to this post: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sol-ark-8-12-15k-with-tigo-ts4-a-o.45069/post-948693
hpeyerl
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The more I dig into this Tigo thing, the more I realize they're a company I don't want to do business with. I was literally about to punch the 'checkout' button on a $2300 order when I decided to look into how I was going to get information out of these things. Turns out it's complicated and they want to charge me $20/year in order to download MY data which I'm forced to upload to them or else have 'reduced warranty'. Yeah, I realize it's only $20/year but I don't like buying hardware that loses it's usefulness if the company goes out of business. Since their 'cloud' has been overloaded seemingly since at least August and people are having trouble getting any data out of it, it's not looking good.
Unfortunately, the Sol-Ark optimizer thing also isn't looking good. The official answer from 'sales' (as of this morning) is 'end of Q2/2024 best case'. Since the Sol-Ark O900-80 optimizer is really just one of these: https://enteligent.com/products/enteligent™-nmax-optimizers-m500a1 I decided to see what was up with Enteligent.
Turns out not much. Nobody is answering the phone over there and messages I've left are going unanswered. The 'shop' now doesn't have pricing or availability and videos that talk about the product are now returning 404's. So that doesn't bode well for Sol-Ark's optimizers.
Maybe I'm over-reacting to the Tigo thing. Maybe I'll buy the APSmart RSD units and wait it out.
Unfortunately, the Sol-Ark optimizer thing also isn't looking good. The official answer from 'sales' (as of this morning) is 'end of Q2/2024 best case'. Since the Sol-Ark O900-80 optimizer is really just one of these: https://enteligent.com/products/enteligent™-nmax-optimizers-m500a1 I decided to see what was up with Enteligent.
Turns out not much. Nobody is answering the phone over there and messages I've left are going unanswered. The 'shop' now doesn't have pricing or availability and videos that talk about the product are now returning 404's. So that doesn't bode well for Sol-Ark's optimizers.
Maybe I'm over-reacting to the Tigo thing. Maybe I'll buy the APSmart RSD units and wait it out.
hpeyerl
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They claim to be doing some sort of 'international service upgrade' and are saying all server problems should be fixed then but offered no timeline.Yesterday I submitted a support ticket to TIGO about monitoring not working in the morning. They acknowledged it's a server problem. But how about fixing it.
themizz
tinkering
Does anybody on here have actual experience with the APSmart RSD and their cloud platform?
hpeyerl
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Does an RSD need a cloud platform? I didn't see anything about an APSmart 'cloud platform' when I was pricing it out.
themizz
tinkering
No - I guess I was assuming it was the same as the Tigo TS4-A-O which does RSD but also optimizing and monitoring. It would be great if the Tigo would allow local data access but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I was thinking the APSmart was similar but I guess it is more like the TS4-A-F which doesn't do monitoring or optimizing, is that right?
hpeyerl
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That's what I'm reading, yes.
It looks like the Tigo optimizer does some processing in their 'cloud' to improve the optimization (except when the cloud is largely unavailable for 6+ months). But the RSD functionality is still there but requires their CCA to be present in order to work. Given they can also control the CCA remotely, it means that an error on their part, or a failed firmware update, would leave you not generating PV.
themizz
tinkering
It's a good point. I guess worst case you get up on the roof and start unplugging.
You are motivating me to run an experiment. Does the system actually need a CCA or does it just need power to the TAP to stay alive. If it's the latter, you could just power the TAP directly.
You are motivating me to run an experiment. Does the system actually need a CCA or does it just need power to the TAP to stay alive. If it's the latter, you could just power the TAP directly.
themizz
tinkering
Found this:
Blind Deployment is defined as any arrangement of TS4 MLPE units being used WITHOUT monitoring enabled (.i.e., no communication via CCA or TAP):
Albeit, this type of deployment can function for an undetermined amount of time, it offers no visibility into optimization, performance, or quality of system. It also excludes the system from the complete Warranty eligibility or coverage, as the system cannot be remotely diagnosed for troubleshot, without a TAP (Tigo Access Point) and network connected CCA (Cloud Connect Advance).
This deployment method offers:
Blind Deployment is defined as any arrangement of TS4 MLPE units being used WITHOUT monitoring enabled (.i.e., no communication via CCA or TAP):
Albeit, this type of deployment can function for an undetermined amount of time, it offers no visibility into optimization, performance, or quality of system. It also excludes the system from the complete Warranty eligibility or coverage, as the system cannot be remotely diagnosed for troubleshot, without a TAP (Tigo Access Point) and network connected CCA (Cloud Connect Advance).
This deployment method offers:
- Blind optimization via PIV (Predictive IV curve technology)
- Reduced Warranty Coverage
themizz
tinkering
Also, seems at least theoretically possible to access the data locally. https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/discussions/18020
Any great programmers on here that want to help?
Any great programmers on here that want to help?
hpeyerl
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In order to pass inspection, I need RSD. It's not clear to me that RSD is possible in a 'Blind Deployment'.
Reading the german thread referenced in the github discussion, it would seem that when someone discovers how to access data from the local CCA, then Tigo sends out a firmware update blocking that. So they are openly hostile to attempts at getting at your own data.
I've been running my 15k with Tigo TS4-A-O optimizers since December 2023 and haven't had any issues.
The Tigo website is a bit laggy at times, however it I don't use it often enough to bother me. I use the free version, and only check it once in a while to make sure all of my panels are still producing.
My primary reason for adding these was panel monitoring, however the RSD function does work as well.
I have a 2-Pole emergency push button with 1x NC and 1x NO contacts.
I feed the Tigo CCA power from a 12V transformer connected to the load side of the inverter (through a breaker in a sub-panel), and not from the built-in RSD transformer, because the Tigo CCA uses more current than allowed by the 15K. The NC contact on the emergency switch is wired to the CCA transformer on the 120V side, and when pushed will kill power to the CCA and deenergize the panels.
The NO contact on the emergency switch is wired to the B,B contacts in the inverter.
The Tigo website is a bit laggy at times, however it I don't use it often enough to bother me. I use the free version, and only check it once in a while to make sure all of my panels are still producing.
My primary reason for adding these was panel monitoring, however the RSD function does work as well.
I have a 2-Pole emergency push button with 1x NC and 1x NO contacts.
I feed the Tigo CCA power from a 12V transformer connected to the load side of the inverter (through a breaker in a sub-panel), and not from the built-in RSD transformer, because the Tigo CCA uses more current than allowed by the 15K. The NC contact on the emergency switch is wired to the CCA transformer on the 120V side, and when pushed will kill power to the CCA and deenergize the panels.
The NO contact on the emergency switch is wired to the B,B contacts in the inverter.
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