Beginning installation of Schneider XW Pro/EG4ll batteries V1/MPPT 100A 600V OFF-GRID only questions

[SniperX]

I know it is standard industry practice to use 12-2 nonmetallic cable (better known as romex) for 240 only circuits. So you get a white and a black. Using the "correct" color isn't really an option. Running 12-3 just to have the right color is not required by code. The code may require using the correct color when using individual conductors below a certain size in a conduit.

i did a little research. Apparently, reidentifying these white wires in a cable used to be optional "if the usage was obvious". Newer versions of the code now require the white wires to be reidentified. It is also true that many electricians don't do this and many inspectors don't enforce it. I think it's a good practice. Essentially on the load end where someone might think there was 120 volts on the wire.

I did a little research, and wondered if you were saying to move the grounding lug over to the transfer switch because it would be on the service side of things and not on the load side (the main panel would be load and the transfer switch is before the load) In my instance, the Schneider would be on the right where the service connection would be since I am off-grid and there is no service meter. Am I understanding this correctly @wheisenburg? The third photo shows the info on the inside of the door on the transfer switch.
If I did that, then I would get this N-G bonding kit? https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-DG100N...ton+neutral+kit+dg100nb,industrial,103&sr=1-1

 

[dougbert]

I did a little research, and wondered if you were saying to move the grounding lug over to the transfer switch because it would be on the service side of things and not on the load side (the main panel would be load and the transfer switch is before the load) In my instance, the Schneider would be on the right where the service connection would be since I am off-grid and there is no service meter. Am I understanding this correctly?

so that is a picture of your system at the moment correct?

then you are replacing the disconnect switch with a transfer switch, right?

and replacing the meter box with output from the schneider?

the XW Pro becomes your power source and the new transfer switch becomes "the first means of disconnect" of the "service", then yes the transfer switch should have the Neutral-Ground bonding point

for the transfer switch, one input is the XW Pro, what is the second input power source? Generator?

 

[SniperX]

so that is a picture of your system at the moment correct?

then you are replacing the disconnect switch with a transfer switch, right?

and replacing the meter box with output from the schneider?

the XW Pro becomes your power source and the new transfer switch becomes "the first means of disconnect" of the "service", then yes the transfer switch should have the Neutral-Ground bonding point

for the transfer switch, one input is the XW Pro, what is the second input power source? Generator?

NO, sorry for the confusion. @wheisenburg had suggested moving the N-G bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I was trying to understand why and came across the video that showed the above configuration. So I screen shot it to be sure this was what he was talking about. My set-up is this photo. When switched up, that will be the Schneider and when switch down, that will be a generator not running through the Schneider but stand alone. The middle lugs are connected to the Main breaker, etc. in the panel on the left of the transfer switch.
I was asking if the transfer switch would be considered service side when coming from the Schneider and Load side when coming from the Main panel and that would be the reason to move the G-N bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I have never heard of that before but it doesn't mean it is wrong. Just asking for clarification.

 

[SniperX]

NO, sorry for the confusion. @wheisenburg had suggested moving the N-G bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I was trying to understand why and came across the video that showed the above configuration. So I screen shot it to be sure this was what he was talking about. My set-up is this:
I was asking if the transfer switch would be considered service side when coming from the Schneider and Load side when coming from the Main panel and that would be the reason to move the G-N bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I have never heard of that before but it doesn't mean it is wrong. Just asking for clarification.

for the transfer switch, one input is the XW Pro, what is the second input power source? Generator?

In my system, I am either going to use the Schneider or transfer it to just a generator and disconnect from the Schneider (in case of hurricanes, I want the Schneider powered down along with the batteries. Solar would be disconnected as well)

 

[dougbert]

NO, sorry for the confusion. @wheisenburg had suggested moving the N-G bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I was trying to understand why and came across the video that showed the above configuration. So I screen shot it to be sure this was what he was talking about. My set-up is this photo. When switched up, that will be the Schneider and when switch down, that will be a generator not running through the Schneider but stand alone. The middle lugs are connected to the Main breaker, etc. in the panel on the left of the transfer switch.
I was asking if the transfer switch would be considered service side when coming from the Schneider and Load side when coming from the Main panel and that would be the reason to move the G-N bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I have never heard of that before but it doesn't mean it is wrong. Just asking for clarification.

okay

I used the phrase "the first means of disconnect" on purpose, as that is the requirement in the NEC for the location of the N-G bond. The transfer switch is the first means of disconnect. Just so you know where it comes from.

I like watching this electrician, he is in New Jersey. He mentions this for about 3 minutes

and here

 

[hwy17]

I would just bond in the panel and not worry about the minutiae of the NEC. There are exceptions to first means of disconnect, and I'm not sure the words first means of disconnect actually exist in any of the relevant articles.

 

[dougbert]

I would just bond in the panel and not worry about the minutiae of the NEC. There are exceptions to first means of disconnect, and I'm not sure the words first means of disconnect actually exist in any of the relevant articles.

yeah, agree

he mentions in the first video, he could put the bond in either the disconnect or the panel.

Being off-grid has some advantages

 

[SniperX]

okay

I used the phrase "the first means of disconnect" on purpose, as that is the requirement in the NEC for the location of the N-G bond. The transfer switch is the first means of disconnect. Just so you know where it comes from.

I like watching this electrician, he is in New Jersey. He mentions this for about 3 minutes

and here

Love that guy. He is to the point. Have watched many of his videos. Will go see this one. Thanks!

 

[SniperX]

yeah, agree

he mentions in the first video, he could put the bond in either the disconnect or the panel.

Being off-grid has some advantages

So if no inspection, then, this would be ok to leave it in the main panel vs purchasing the kit and refitting? If I put it in the transfer switch, would it be safer for the Schneider since it is closer or is it fine in the panel? I want to do it right but I also don't want to get lost in the weeds if no inspection. Know what I mean?

 

[dougbert]

So if no inspection, then, this would be ok to leave it in the main panel vs purchasing the kit and refitting? If I put it in the transfer switch, would it be safer for the Schneider since it is closer or is it fine in the panel? I want to do it right but I also don't want to get lost in the weeds if no inspection. Know what I mean?

yes, like hwy17 said it will be fine. I just wanted to explain the why of where the single N-G bond should be placed. given the panel is right next to the xfer switch, its okay. The feature of the N-G bond is implemented where you have it

 

[dougbert]

NO, sorry for the confusion. @wheisenburg had suggested moving the N-G bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I was trying to understand why and came across the video that showed the above configuration. So I screen shot it to be sure this was what he was talking about. My set-up is this photo. When switched up, that will be the Schneider and when switch down, that will be a generator not running through the Schneider but stand alone. The middle lugs are connected to the Main breaker, etc. in the panel on the left of the transfer switch.
I was asking if the transfer switch would be considered service side when coming from the Schneider and Load side when coming from the Main panel and that would be the reason to move the G-N bond out of the main panel and into the transfer switch. I have never heard of that before but it doesn't mean it is wrong. Just asking for clarification.

BTW, nice layout

 

[SniperX]

yes, like hwy17 said it will be fine. I just wanted to explain the why of where the single N-G bond should be placed. given the panel is right next to the xfer switch, its okay. The feature of the N-G bond is implemented where you have it

I like to know how to do things the correct way, so both of you were great in letting me know. It helps me understand a lot. I can read code all day long and my eyes roll to the back of my head. We can't all be engineers, etc. Why can't they write things for normal people? lol

 

[hwy17]

Why can't they write things for normal people? lol

Industry protectionism lol. It's like the bible, it's vague, expansive, and open to interpretation on purpose.

 

[dougbert]

Why can't they write things for normal people? lol

and then there is the medical profession.....and legal.....and.....

 

[SniperX]

Been busy doing the grounding of the batteries/cabinet. I know that the paint is not rubbed off on the wings that go on the batteries and then screw onto the rack to hold them into place. I went back through my pictures, so to say that the screw is bonding it does not make me confident, so I went ahead and added 6AWG grounding wire to each battery, then grounded it at the bottom. I have still not hooked them to the Schneider, so the top battery will have the ground wire (not in the picture) going to the ground busbar in the Schneider.

I am going to install an EMP Shield for the batteries on the left side of the Schneider-I am in the process of painting my spacer that I need to keep the EMP Shield flush with the conduit, so that is why it is just sitting there like that.

I updated my panel per all of your recommendations. Thank you for holding my hand. This is not a thing I ever thought I would be doing. I am definitely not a "normal" girly girl!

 

[dougbert]

I am going to install an EMP Shield for the batteries on the right side of the Schneider- I am in the process of painting my spacer that I need to keep the EMP Shield flush with the conduit, so that is why it is just sitting there like that.

I updated my panel per all of your recommendations. Thank you for holding my hand. This is not a thing I ever thought I would be doing. I am definitely not a "normal" girly girl!

put my EMP shield and other surge protector outside the panel cabinets, just used 3/4" flex conduit

proudly displayed and so I could see the status leds

and

you CAN do it

 

[SniperX]

put my EMP shield and other surge protector outside the panel cabinets, just used 3/4" flex conduit

proudly displayed and so I could see the status leds

and

you CAN do it

Thanks!!
I sat down to take a look at things and then had a realization I may have done this wrong. I hope not.

I put the EMP Shield on the left of the Schneider and went in from the left side BUT I crossed over the AC side, went under the plastic partition and hooked to the 250A busbar.

I know you are supposed to separate the AC wiring from the DC wiring and it wasn't until I sat down to look at it did I see my error.

My question is: If I mounted my Charge Controller on the left of the Schneider, wouldn't the PV (DC) have to basically do the same thing to get to the DC Battery Breaker? I can't see how it couldn't because it would all be internal because you take that plate out between the two separating them.

Will this be ok or should I take it out and mount underneath going towards the Insight home and horizontally. Right now, it is turned on its side, but I quarter turned it to the left, it could go horizontally like that (sorry for the crude drawing)