Schneider XW Pro commission

[waterflea]

I need help. I have installed a 14.4kw solar system designed by Alt E and I am ready to commission but for a few problems. I have 2 XWPro Inverters, PDP, 3 Conext MPPT 100 600 charge controllers, 2 MPPT disconnect RS switches, Conext battery monitor, Conext AGS, InsightHome and 6 Pytes Ebox 48100R batteries. The first issue I had was getting the InsightHome to recognize the switches and battery monitor. I have checked and rechecked and have come to the conclusion the battery monitor is at fault and the switches? Who knows. I don't think it will matter much in the long run. The schematic below is what I have been using and was provided by Alt E. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around their design for the AC buss. It seems too complicated for a total off grid system with only generator input. Am I wrong? I've tried their tech support and Schneiders and can't get a response. Please comment.

 

[400bird]

I need help. I have installed a 14.4kw solar system designed by Alt E and I am ready to commission but for a few problems. I have 2 XWPro Inverters, PDP, 3 Conext MPPT 100 600 charge controllers, 2 MPPT disconnect RS switches, Conext battery monitor, Conext AGS, InsightHome and 6 Pytes Ebox 48100R batteries. The first issue I had was getting the InsightHome to recognize the switches and battery monitor. I have checked and rechecked and have come to the conclusion the battery monitor is at fault and the switches? Who knows. I don't think it will matter much in the long run.

Why do you think the battery monitor is at fault? Share some pics of how you have it set up and your connection diagram and someone can probably help.

The schematic below is what I have been using and was provided by Alt E. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around their design for the AC buss. It seems too complicated for a total off grid system with only generator input. Am I wrong?

Looks like the standard diagram for wiring the PDP, including grid bypass breakers. Ignore the grid and bypass sections.

 

[waterflea]

 

[waterflea]

After testing all connections and cables in the Xanbus network and moving the battery monitor into different locations in the system, I isolated it with only the InsightHome and inverter to power it and it still doesn't show up. It, by itself, shows information but doesn't show up on my computer.
My point exactly on the AC buss. If I'm offgrid, why the need for wiring back to the Grid AC1 terminal on the inverter and the bypass. Why can't it be as simple as what I have drawn below?

 

[400bird]

The diagrams are standardized examples, you'll need to make modifications to suit your installation. So, if you don't have anything to connect to AC1, leave it unwired.

You may want to repurpose the bypass breaker set up to allow the generator to directly power loads, bypassing the XW for maintenance in the future. If you already have the breakers, I would.

I don't have the Schneider battery monitor, but I think you are on the right track. Did you have everything connected to the battery monitor for the test? The battery cables, xanbus, and terminator?
If so, I'd request a replacement from Schneider or your vendor. They'll probably have some tests for you to perform, but it sounds dead to me.

 

[waterflea]

I get what you're saying about the standardized examples but this system was supposed to be custom designed for my specific wants and needs and the schematic which I have followed to the T were drawn based on those perimeters and I paid extra for that service.

The generator I'm using presently is the Honda EU7000i. I know it's small for this system but it's what I have and I'm hoping it will suffice for topping off the batteries when needed but not necessarily to run the whole system.

I haven't had much luck with either Schneider or AltE tech support but it was Schneider's idea to isolate the battery monitor and the InsightHome to see if it appeared. I had to link it with the inverter to power it because I didn't have the right ac adapter for the InsightHome.

 

[400bird]

Schneider should have a good idea how to verify the battery monitor is bad. I'd keep working with them, sounds like they've got you on the right track and should warranty it out.

I don't know what to tell you on the diagrams. Why would they have you connect any wires to AC one of you don't have if available?
Looking at the portion of the diagram shown, it looks like they have drawn in wiring to bring in grid power.
I believe some (if not all) of that wiring is included with the PDP and second inverter kits. So, I doubt you paid extra for the parts.

I'd make sure to install something to allow the generator to power the house if you need to power down the inverters. You've already got the breakers.

 

[Horsefly]

I have the much smaller (and older) SW4024 Schneider inverter/charger, also in an off-grid setup with a generator. The set of bypass breakers in my system are meant to be able to connect the generator to the loads and bypass the inverter as @400bird says. However, one of the most important things the bypass breakers need to do is to not allow the input to the inverter to be connected to the output of the inverter, else very bad things will happen. I can't tell from the diagram if that is what they have set up for you, but I would hope they would have. The bypass disconnects the generator from the inverter input, then connects it to the inverter output.

I have no idea about your issues with Insight Home. I assume both ends of your Xanbus are terminated?

 

[waterflea]

Thank you both for the input. I'll take your advice and add the bypass for the generator. I was afraid if I started things up as drawn, bad things would happen. I'll make that change and post the results.
InsightHome is self terminating and the last inverter's xanbus network was terminated.

 

[400bird]

Thank you both for the input. I'll take your advice and add the bypass for the generator. I was afraid if I started things up as drawn, bad things would happen. I'll make that change and post the results.

Without seeing the entire diagram, I can't say for sure, but it shouldn't have caused damage. It just would have been less than ideal use of the bypass breakers and lock out. Also pointless work to hook up the "grid input" when there's nothing to connect it too.

InsightHome is self terminating

Yup!

and the last inverter's xanbus network was terminated.

Was it at the far end of the string? It's difficult to put the terminator in the middle just checking.

 

[SniperX]

Schneider should have a good idea how to verify the battery monitor is bad. I'd keep working with them, sounds like they've got you on the right track and should warranty it out.

I don't know what to tell you on the diagrams. Why would they have you connect any wires to AC one of you don't have if available?
Looking at the portion of the diagram shown, it looks like they have drawn in wiring to bring in grid power.
I believe some (if not all) of that wiring is included with the PDP and second inverter kits. So, I doubt you paid extra for the parts.

I'd make sure to install something to allow the generator to power the house if you need to power down the inverters. You've already got the breakers.

This is what I am going to do. I have a transfer switch installed. So it will either be inverter powering or generator. This way, I won't have my generator tied to the inverter.

 

[waterflea]

Here is the complete schematic.
I started with the InsightHome and ended with the last inverter being terminated. If you look at the picture of my system, I start from the left and
ended with the last inverter on the right.
If anyone has any ideas on how to setup that AC buss with the generator feeding the inverter and setup to bypass such and feed the main panel, feel free to post. I'm working on it on this end.

 

[BentleyJ]

If anyone has any ideas on how to setup that AC buss with the generator feeding the inverter and setup to bypass such and feed the main panel, feel free to post. I'm working on it on this end.

Seems like there is something odd with the wiring diagram. AC Out from the inverter would typically feed the main panel and there would be Grid and/or Generator used for the AC Input. There is an alternate wiring method called for when using a Schneider Backup Control Switch but that is not the case here. Not sure what to make of the diagram they sent you.

The set up depends on how many 2 pole breakers are installed in the PDP and how many "finger" style bus bars you have. There is no Grid input so you would need 2 x 2 pole Gen input breakers as shown and then I believe another 2 x 2 pole breakers for the bypass to send gen pwr directly to the main panel, via the PDP but bypassing the inverter.

I'm going to take a look at some other documentation and hopefully be able to offer some help.

 

[BentleyJ]

Check out this diagram. Grid or Generator feeds into the top finger bus bar lugs and AC out feeds the load panel from the bottom finger bus bar lugs. There is an interlock lever so the Tie-Breaker (middle) cannot be ON when the Left breaker is ON.

Its only for 1 inverter but could be duplicated for 2 inverters.

 

[waterflea]

I'm thinking this makes sense......thoughts?

 

[BentleyJ]

You shouldn't need the transfer switch at all unless you need to bypass the PDP entirely and feed the main panel directly with one of the feeds from the transfer switch. Otherwise you can use 3 breakers for each inverter with the middle being the bypass breaker and interlock lever.
Look at the diagram I posted from the Schneider install manual. Its only for one inverter but it illustrates the concept.

 

[waterflea]

Thanks BentleyJ. I've added the transfer switch because of a previous suggestion that it might be handy to have a direct connection from the generator to the main panel and bypass the inverters. I think that is a good idea and all is accomplished in my crude drawing above. Maybe I'm missing something but except for the transfer switch, I think we're on the same page. Thanks for you input.

 

[BentleyJ]

I've added the transfer switch because of a previous suggestion that it might be handy to have a direct connection from the generator to the main panel and bypass the inverters.

No intention to beat this issue to death. Just don't want you to do extra work that is not necessary.

Final comment. Per your drawing, the transfer switch does NOT create a "direct connection from the generator to the main panel" its still using the PDP breakers for both connections. In one position the inverters are in the circuit in the other the inverters are isolated but the PDP is always part of the circuit. Which is OK, its unlikely the PDP would ever need to be removed for service since its only the removable breakers that would need to be changed, maybe.

My point was that if the finger bus bars were rearranged accordingly in the PDP you could accomplish exactly the same inverter bypass via the PDP breakers without using the transfer switch at all. On the other hand if one of the outputs from the transfer switch were routed directly to the main panel then both the inverters and the PDP would be isolated and out of the circuit. But again, that is really not necessary.

 

[400bird]

Yeah, you basically have a transfer switch built into the breakers you have with the PDP.

Connect the generator to the "grid" connection on the breakers.
From those breakers, something wires into AC 1 as the grid input to the XWs. Swap that to AC 2, to better work with the generator.

 

[waterflea]

Please, one or both of you, draw it out like I did exactly what you're talking about and post it. It would be very helpful.