block diagram for sol-ark 15k vendor install

[prometheanfire]

2008, we'll see if we can outlast kansas

Learn where the National Electrical Code® (NEC®) is enforced. | NFPA

Discover which edition of the NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC) is enforced in your state.

www.nfpa.org

Was expecting 2020 to be adopted next year (in 2024) but no news yet...

 

[prometheanfire]

Now I need to figure out if I can fit everything on a wall, including clearances, etc, ceiling height is ~8 feet usable (after accounting for ceiling drywall and flooring.

From top to bottom including clearances

• 6 inch top clearance
• 32 inch sol ark
• 6 inch bottom clearance
• wireway
  • 10 inch for homegrid stack'd
  • 6 inch (tight), 8 inch (remove wheels) eg4 ll rack
• battery
  • 41 inch battery size for homegrid
  • 46 inch battery for eg4 ll rack

I wonder if I could try for a 6 inch by 12 inch wireway, but it doesn't look like anyone sells those (and it'd need to be nema rated).

I'd have 104 usable inches if I didn't have to deal with the sewer pipe.

18 inches out from the wall, once a wall is installed with insulation behind it that'll be ~12 inches if I use 1 inch of insulation instead of 2 for that area.
9 inches from the ceiling, so in order to use that area behind the pipe I'd have to slot the sol ark up into it to mount (12 inch depth and cover some of the front) not worth it and probably actively bad.

Am I over thinking things?
Should I just use the eg4 rack on castors and have it in front of the wireway (disconnect and roll it away if I need to open things up)? It'd be installed after initial solar install. I suppose it feels like it's so close to fitting but won't in that area.

 

[pvgirl]

Per NEC equipment working space requirements vertically no equipment can stick out more then 6 inches from other equipment. a battery rack below a sol-ark will probably stick more then 6 inches beyond the front of the sol-ark,

 

[prometheanfire]

Idea is to have it offset through the gutter at least to start.

I may have to run 250 kcmil and convert down at the sol ark bus bars (in the raceway) if I install a second sol-ark (since I can't put it beneath the input or output panels). I'd have to put it off to the side (12-16ish feet I'd guess).

 

[prometheanfire]

For the indoor portion I have about 8 feet of usable space, floor to ceiling and side to side (though side to side could be stretched to 9 feet, maybe.

Here's what I'm thinking for physical layout, this is about 7'9" side to side and floor to ceiling. The sol-ark's are kinda high but I'm ok with foot stools, I'm short already so would probably have needed one anyway.

Nice things:

• This fits the batteries and everything on one wall plane
• If I wanted more batteries I could do another pair of pytes forest enclosures about 12-16 feet away
  • (would need conduit and 0/4 cable, but wouldn't be horrible...)
• I'm able to run the line to the outside / utility / emergency disconnect along the left side
  • good for cable routing reasons.
• I could run the solar down the right side, which would have AC and DC entering at opposite ends of the wireway
• The double throw switch could be moved left a little if it needs more clearance
• has a battery enclosure with bus bars, less cables for the kid to gnaw on

Not so nice things:

• The sol-arks are mounted kinda high
• 6 inches of clearance to mount the pytes batteries isn't a lot, but I couldn't find anything specified and the specs state they are just under 4.75 inches
• not using the pytes v5°

Anything you would change?

 

[zanydroid]

You may want to check what Pytes or SolArk says is the supported way to wire things up per their UL9540 cert, even though you don't need that per your current state code (it’s imported from international residential code). Might avoid problems if you add stuff at a time when it is required.

Also you would know how much kWh of storage is allowed in this location.

I’m not sure having a second set of batteries that far away is going to end well. Conductor length imbalance and voltage drop on both charging and discharging. You might have said something about oversizing the conductors to compensate, it might need to be massive and I don’t know how the math works out.

 

[prometheanfire]

They are supported UL9540 up to 12 batteries, I'll definitely be checking first though as I'm not sure if the pytes batteries can support 12 batteries without their expander comms unit. KWH storage allowed is part of the UL9540 spec I think (and it says 60KWH)

I'll be making sure the conductor length will remain the same between all paralleled battery banks, at the time it'll end up being 150A max load per bank (til I get a second sol ark), which with 0/4 cable will be easily handled I think.

First install will be just one sol-ark, which means no inverter input or output panel.

 

[zanydroid]

UL9540 up to 12 batteries

OK. Note that this has a good chance of blowing through IRC limits in how many can be in one room, there’s also a limit per stack and minimal separation between stacks (can be exempt based on extra testing reports). There’s pretty weak coordination across the manufacturer, UL, code ecosystem on making the limits line up with each other. And since it’s confusing AHJ that enforce (it sounds like yours is not one) also get pretty confused.

What is the kWh of a battery? 5kWh?

 

[prometheanfire]

Each battery is 5kwh.

The UL listing stated support for 12 batteries stacked, so separation and being in one room should be covered I believe.

 

[zanydroid]

Here is a summary of the limits based on IRC2021

As I said, UL9540 does not line up with limits so you can’t just trust the instructions in the ESS manual. Also instructions in manuals for UL listed equipment can be plain wrong despite theoretically having been reviewed as part of listing

https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2021/08/ESS-Separation-Max-Quantities-2021-Residential-Requirements-002_TLrev_08272021-002.pdf

 

[prometheanfire]

Indiana has not yet put it in place but it is recommended to amend to put in place following the UL9540 limits and not the IRC limits for batteries in room / house, I know I saw that proposal but can't find it now.

Also, from your link.

Shall be separated from each other by not less than 3 feet. Except where smaller separation distances are
documented based on UL 9540A Test Report.

It does limit it to 20kwh per stack though.

 

[prometheanfire]

An alternative, which is a little more expensive but is almost the exact same dimensions as pytes (0.1" wider) (and explicitly supports parallel up to 10 stacks is homegrid. They also don't specify clearances :| One benefit of though is that the stacks go up to 38.4kwh instead of 30.