BMS for Schneider Conext

[400bird]

I need to get back to testing. I connected the can wiring. They were talking, Schneider was reporting SOC.
I set a critical BMS fault and Schneider fully powered down, that's good.
But, I need to get time to get back to this. Next step is try limiting charge/discharge current and set voltage targets.
Work has been busy and I've had other priorities. But, I think this is coming back up to the top of the pile for some attention soon.

 

[Jbbonnette]

I need to get back to testing. I connected the can wiring. They were talking, Schneider was reporting SOC.
I set a critical BMS fault and Schneider fully powered down, that's good.
But, I need to get time to get back to this. Next step is try limiting charge/discharge current and set voltage targets.
Work has been busy and I've had other priorities. But, I think this is coming back up to the top of the pile for some attention soon.

Hey. I'm set up now an Batrium is working great. Two Batteries (so far). I have the Watchmon Core and 2 K9's. I'm very apprehensive regarding the intergration. Dummy question: Did the "speak to each other" via Wifii? Or hard connection? Not really sure how to link them.

Thanks

 

[shorawitz]

I have mine setup to use my own integration with Home Assistant: https://github.com/shorawitz/conext-api

It's basically a Python application that uses Flask to create a server process that can query the Conext Gateway via ModBusTCP (any network connection.) The integration allows me to control all of my Schneider equipment as well as detailed monitoring that can fire events and turn on dump loads and send alerts to my cell phone. I created a video on my YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8_TU2g-Yl1oMCts3pkXCbQ

I've got a Solar Playlist there that goes over my system as well as how I got the integration working w/Home Assistant. I'll be putting out a new video soon with all of the alerts/automatons I've added soon.

 

[400bird]

Hey. I'm set up now an Batrium is working great. Two Batteries (so far). I have the Watchmon Core and 2 K9's. I'm very apprehensive regarding the intergration. Dummy question: Did the "speak to each other" via Wifii? Or hard connection? Not really sure how to link them.

Thanks

Batrium can communicate with an inverter via CAN network. The hardware is present on your core to implement RS485, but they haven't deployed/developed the software yet.

The Schneider story is the same. CAN communication with a battery. RS485 is present in the hardware but not developed.

So, the inverter and BMS are hardwired together with a single twisted pair. The other 3 pairs in that cat5 cable are cut off....

 

[Rossman]

Hey. I'm set up now an Batrium is working great. Two Batteries (so far). I have the Watchmon Core and 2 K9's. I'm very apprehensive regarding the intergration. Dummy question: Did the "speak to each other" via Wifii? Or hard connection? Not really sure how to link them.

Thanks

Just to elaborate on @400bird 's reply....

Assuming you have the InsightHome and the Batrium, you'll connect them together with a cable, the easiest is just some old cat5 network cable, you only need two of the wires in it (one of the pairs of wires), I used brown and brown/white but its up to you.

On the InsightHome 12pin adapter, wire to CAN H and CAN L - on the other end, do the same for the Batrium. All CAN H are tried together and all CAN L are tied together - so brown wire to CAN H on both ends and brown/white to CAN L on both ends.

I don't believe you need to connect CAN-ground so ignore that.

From there you should be able to set the Batrium to use Pylontech protocol, then go into the InsightHome to configure/connect to it (also choosing the one of the Pylontech battery BMS options in the list).

 

[Jbbonnette]

Just to elaborate on @400bird 's reply....

Assuming you have the InsightHome and the Batrium, you'll connect them together with a cable, the easiest is just some old cat5 network cable, you only need two of the wires in it (one of the pairs of wires), I used brown and brown/white but its up to you.

On the InsightHome 12pin adapter, wire to CAN H and CAN L - on the other end, do the same for the Batrium. All CAN H are tried together and all CAN L are tied together - so brown wire to CAN H on both ends and brown/white to CAN L on both ends.

I don't believe you need to connect CAN-ground so ignore that.

From there you should be able to set the Batrium to use Pylontech protocol, then go into the InsightHome to configure/connect to it (also choosing the one of the Pylontech battery BMS options in the list).

Thanks. I needed that. Wasn't quite sure.

 

[Jbbonnette]

I have mine setup to use my own integration with Home Assistant: https://github.com/shorawitz/conext-api

It's basically a Python application that uses Flask to create a server process that can query the Conext Gateway via ModBusTCP (any network connection.) The integration allows me to control all of my Schneider equipment as well as detailed monitoring that can fire events and turn on dump loads and send alerts to my cell phone. I created a video on my YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8_TU2g-Yl1oMCts3pkXCbQ

I've got a Solar Playlist there that goes over my system as well as how I got the integration working w/Home Assistant. I'll be putting out a new video soon with all of the alerts/automatons I've added soon.

I'm going to unpack this more and hopefully figure it out. For a novice like myself, that all sounds quite overwhelming.

I watched a few of your vids, I feel like a lot of what you're doing is over my head but very interesting. I'll take some more looks. I suppose all that I have undertaken with my solar was once overwhelming until I got my hands on it.

 

[Rossman]

I'm going to unpack this more and hopefully figure it out. For a novice like myself, that all sounds quite overwhelming.

I watched a few of your vids, I feel like a lot of what you're doing is over my head but very interesting. I'll take some more looks. I suppose all that I have undertaken with my solar was once overwhelming until I got my hands on it.

You can set it up for basic integration with insighthome using the steps I described, and then look into using @400bird 's python scripts and tool afterwards, they are not entirely mutually exclusive.

In short, the Insighthome supports something called ModbusTCP which lets you communicate with it over a regular network. Unless you need or desire advanced integration with something like Home Assistant or other IoT type stuff, you don't need to use it at all - the basic canbus integration between batrium and insighthome should function just fine. And you can experiment with ModbusTCP while your system is operating with the basic canbus integration in place, so you can look into it at your own comfort level.

 

[400bird]

You can set it up for basic integration with insighthome using the steps I described, and then look into using @400bird 's python scripts and tool afterwards, they are not entirely mutually exclusive.

In short, the Insighthome supports something called ModbusTCP which lets you communicate with it over a regular network. Unless you need or desire advanced integration with something like Home Assistant or other IoT type stuff, you don't need to use it at all - the basic canbus integration between batrium and insighthome should function just fine. And you can experiment with ModbusTCP while your system is operating with the basic canbus integration in place, so you can look into it at your own comfort level.

My python stuff is completely separate from the BMS to inverter communication. The python power monitor controls how the inverter charges from AC coupled solar, but having the Batrium connected to the Schneider isn't related or involved.

Connecting the Batrium BMS and Schneider inverter (I should have mentioned that the connection is made at the gateway/Insight Home, not directly on the XW)
Is just a few drop down menu selection and connecting some wires. I think the ground may be required, but I'm not sure. I did connect the ground, so I was incorrect in an earlier post when I said 2 wires, I'm using 3 out of the 8 in the cut up cat5 cable.

The Batrium to Schneider communication isn't needed, but it gives me a "limited" or "warning" state, where I can limit the charge/discharge current if, for example the cell temps get too high. With out it, you get all or nothing.

Either the Schneider disconnects or Batrium opens the shunt. Now, I've got a middle ground.

 

[jtvt]

Connecting the Batrium BMS and Schneider inverter (I should have mentioned that the connection is made at the gateway/Insight Home, not directly on the XW)
Is just a few drop down menu selection and connecting some wires. I think the ground may be required, but I'm not sure. I did connect the ground, so I was incorrect in an earlier post when I said 2 wires, I'm using 3 out of the 8 in the cut up cat5 cable.

.

Did you use terminator resistors? IIRC, the Batrium ships with one installed and the Gateway has it internally. But I could be wrong.

 

[Rossman]

@shorawitz hey dude just wanted to say thanks for linking your github, i was able to use your query.py without issue, very helpful stuff

 

[400bird]

Did you use terminator resistors? IIRC, the Batrium ships with one installed and the Gateway has it internally. But I could be wrong.

CAN networks need a 120 ohm terminating resistor at both ends.
My Batrium included a 120 ohm resistor.
I've got the newer InsightHome. It doesn't have internal resistors for the CAN network. (It does for their proprietary XANbus network that connects the insight to the XW)

 

[Rossman]

CAN networks need a 120 ohm terminating resistor at both ends.
My Batrium included a 120 ohm resistor.
I've got the newer InsightHome. It doesn't have internal resistors for the CAN network. (It does for their proprietary XANbus network that connects the insight to the XW)

Oh so we have to put a terminating resistor on the insighthome end as well?

 

[400bird]

"Have to" is a bit strong for my tastes ?
But without it your results may vary.

In all seriousness, I'd recommend checking the manual for the insight, I might have miss read the instructions.

 

[jtvt]

Doesn't look like there is much integration in Schneider stuff yet. The docs say the MPPT is not integrated yet and also tells you that you might have to set a charge block in the inverter during daylight hours so that the inverter and MPPT don't charge at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if there was other stuff not available or not documented.

The other thing is the Gateway makes you select a fixed number of specific Pylontech battery models and appears to calculate the total battery capacity and other settings from those selections. I'm not sure you can override those settings. I need to dig deeper. I use DIY cells with 1120ah and there doesn't appear to be a Pylontech battery setup scenario that would be exactly the same amp hours. I can configure something close which may be good enough. There is also an "undefined" battery selection which I didn't try to see if it was usable. Maybe via generic CAN or maybe it's does nothing at all. No documentation on it.

 

[400bird]

Doesn't look like there is much integration in Schneider stuff yet. The docs say the MPPT is not integrated yet and also tells you that you might have to set a charge block in the inverter during daylight hours so that the inverter and MPPT don't charge at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if there was other stuff not available or not documented.

I agree with stuff being not documented. Also, I've seen plenty of stuff where different documentation goes more in depth into different things. Or where specific documents I didn't have detailed something.

But, were did you see that the MPPT wasn't integrated? That's interesting.

The other thing is the Gateway makes you select a fixed number of specific Pylontech battery models and appears to calculate the total battery capacity and other settings from those selections. I'm not sure you can override those settings.

I don't remember which I chose, but I was able to correct the capacity.

I need to dig deeper. I use DIY cells with 1120ah and there doesn't appear to be a Pylontech battery setup scenario that would be exactly the same amp hours. I can configure something close which may be good enough. There is also an "undefined" battery selection which I didn't try to see if it was usable. Maybe via generic CAN or maybe it's does nothing at all. No documentation on it.

Let me know if you can get it to work. That's how I ended up with these 2 random "SunPower" batteries on my devices screen. I could reset the gateway to remove them, but it doesn't bother me.

 

[Rossman]

Doesn't look like there is much integration in Schneider stuff yet. The docs say the MPPT is not integrated yet and also tells you that you might have to set a charge block in the inverter during daylight hours so that the inverter and MPPT don't charge at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if there was other stuff not available or not documented.

The other thing is the Gateway makes you select a fixed number of specific Pylontech battery models and appears to calculate the total battery capacity and other settings from those selections. I'm not sure you can override those settings. I need to dig deeper. I use DIY cells with 1120ah and there doesn't appear to be a Pylontech battery setup scenario that would be exactly the same amp hours. I can configure something close which may be good enough. There is also an "undefined" battery selection which I didn't try to see if it was usable. Maybe via generic CAN or maybe it's does nothing at all. No documentation on it.

I wondered about these things as well and wasn't sure if it was going to go by the # of pylontech batteries picked multiplied by their capacity, or if it would just operate off the state of charge as reported by the BMS. I guess time will tell, when my batteries get here I will find out!
Also, doesn't appear the Conext InsightHome documentation even mentions a CAN bus terminating resistor, which doesn't give the greatest feeling of confidence lol

 

[Rossman]

But, were did you see that the MPPT wasn't integrated? That's interesting.

It says it in the Conext Lithium Ion Battery Solution document

See the footnote on page 11.

 

[Rossman]

@400bird did you need a terminator resistor on the InsightHome/Gateway, like at the 12 pin connector?

 

[400bird]

I wondered about these things as well and wasn't sure if it was going to go by the # of pylontech batteries picked multiplied by their capacity, or if it would just operate off the state of charge as reported by the BMS.

Ah, from what I understand the amp hour capacity isn't used by the Schneider for much of anything.
I have mine set to control charge and discharge based on voltage, not SOC.
I am also using the XW's charge (CC/CV) algorithm, not Batrium.

I guess time will tell, when my batteries get here I will find out!
Also, doesn't appear the Conext InsightHome documentation even mentions a CAN bus terminating resistor, which doesn't give the greatest feeling of confidence lol

Hmmm

@400bird did you need a terminator resistor on the InsightHome/Gateway, like at the 12 pin connector?

I am using one, but now that you point it out, I can't find the documentation that I remember reading that said I needed a terminating resistor. Maybe I just measured the resistance CAN high to low.
I never tested it without the resistor.