Building a big 280AH 24V Battery - Whats the best supplier for cells right now?, also, sanity check for my numbers.

[Steve_S]

Here, when the fridge comes on, I'm using 9.8A, 6.1A when fridge is off. That is my general equipment that are on like the coffee maker, nuke, on-demand hot water heater And my Satellite Web Modem, Router HP DeskElite i7 & 47" LED Screen & Stereo. In my case the FLA being only capable of delivering 50% safely let me down but now as the LFP is coming online what a difference. I also have a fixed mounted rack @ 45deg, that's fine "in general" but it's short come winter due to lack of sun hours, so I am increasing to compensate for that short fall and increase my active reserve capacity. More info in the "About my System" link in my signature.

 

[heirloom hamlet]

Good info for me as I design and plan. Thanks, again.

 

[Steve_S]

Good info for me as I design and plan. Thanks, again.

Here is something to chomp on.... self explanatory. NOTE this is with just the FLA bank at the moment.
Pushing 70.4A to the battery bank. Has already produced 1.3kWh and it only cleared about about an hour ago.
This is the moitoring software that is provided by Midnite for the Clssic Controllers.

 

[heirloom hamlet]

Here is something to chomp on.... self explanatory. NOTE this is with just the FLA bank at the moment.
Pushing 70.4A to the battery bank. Has already produced 1.3kWh and it only cleared about about an hour ago.
This is the moitoring software that is provided by Midnite for the Clssic Controllers.
View attachment 10259

I have to look at this. I was acting as if I fully understood what you were talking about a while ago with the Midnight reference. But really I was like, who-zee-what-see?

 

[ghostwriter66]

Maybe you should start looking into working within the Renewable Energy / Solar Industry instead. Trade the dying old horse for a fresh young Stallion. Psst, the writing is on the wall.

I looked at the solar industry hard before I decided to go the way of the evil petroleum based ways (LOL) ... the issue with the solar industry is that is that everyone - from the top down - is trying to make huge amounts of money ... PLUS the industry has to be hugel;y subsidized by the GOVT for it to make any profit ... YES the petroleum industry has its up and downs - I remember when i was like 10 years old seeing gas at $5 something in CA .. and now in parts of Texas Unleaded is 0.95 cents -- and yes that's a dangerous cycle -- AND YES I am a huge supporter of SOLAR - but everyone from the installers (that rip ppl off soooo much) to the panel manufacturers (that all try to gauge) etc etc the only way for solar to work is if someone actually nationalized it - and set price guidelines ... 50% of all the solar manufactures in the US that are GOVT subsidized go out of business within 5 years - they get the money - and then run ... OR they default on their loans and bankrupt their companies ...

I wish I had a solution - but for right now - although i love Solar -- and see such great potential for it -- until we find a way of keeping GREEDY ppl out of it - there is going to be little movement forward ..

 

[ghostwriter66]

Here is something to chomp on.... self explanatory. NOTE this is with just the FLA bank at the moment.
Pushing 70.4A to the battery bank. Has already produced 1.3kWh and it only cleared about about an hour ago.
This is the moitoring software that is provided by Midnite for the Clssic Controllers.
View attachment 10259

I love this setup -- digital and analog ......

I swear -- if Chargery and you could team and Chargery would make it worth your while -- you guys could rule the BMS market ... Thats the problem with the Chinese - extremely smart BUT lack the "outside of the box" thinking that drives me crazy ... I know it sounds racist but if I had a choice of a young Chinese PhD in EE and a old white Redneck Electrical Technician - I would choose the Old Redneck white guy -- cause he may not know the "right" answer but somehow he would get the damn thing to work ...

 

[ghostwriter66]

The Xuba EVE Cells ARE the best deal to be had, you won't get a better price per Ahr. Remember I used the "whole" number with S&H etc all in.

I am running with 22kWh of Lead + 8.4kWh of LFP "right now" and soon to be 21.8kWh of LFP at which time the Leaf goes for the Greenhouse function. No issues with charging the banks and I am using 2000W of panel and one Midnite Classic 200 (takes 2kw of panel - to 200VDC and put's out up to 79A for 24V bank). I will be increasing # of Panels and adding another Midnite to add capacity for deep winter charging periods. Greenhouse will be a separate & independent system.

BTW, You "May" be able to find other LFP cheaper BUT I can pretty much guarantee that they'll be used & abused with limited capacity & lifecycle left. You would NOT be happy with them but that is the consequence. Remember the old saying "Penny Wise = Dollar Foolish".

As of 04.04.20 still going to agree with STEVE -- for at least the 280aH batteries ... XUBA best deal ...

Unfortunately XUBA does not do 200aH ... clueless why they don't ... huge market loss for them

 

[DENWA]

Qty	Ah	AVG Volts	Cell Wh	Total Wh		Cell cost	~shipping	$ total		$/Wh	$/kWh
XUBA
16​	90​	3.2​	288​	4608​		$28.50​	$171.00​	$627.00​		$0.14​	$136.07​
8​	105​	3.2​	336​	2688​		$35.19​	$171.00​	$452.52​		$0.17​	$168.35​
4​	120​	3.2​	384​	1536​		$36.80​	$171.00​	$318.20​		$0.21​	$207.16​
4​	152​	3.2​	486.4​	1945.6​		$70.00​	$171.00​	$451.00​		$0.23​	$231.81​
4​	280​	3.2​	896​	3584​		$82.67​	$252.40​	$583.08​		$0.16​	$162.69​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​

Of course shipping is based on their calculator on ALI.

I ran up each qty to the max before the calculator ran up to the next higher price point.

Based on this your money ahead and more flexible on voltage with 90Ah cells right now

 

[Sgt Raven]

Steve, I was just thinking...I don't want to get a bank that the rest of my system doesn't really support. Like if I had all this capacity but it would take a week of sun to charge up. That wouldn't be practical for a completely off-grid home.
Is it easy to do the math on how many sun hours it would take for an LV2424 (w/ 80a SCC) to charge between 10% and 90% of a 280aH battery bank? My 24v panel array right now is series/paralleled to be max 16.54a and 75.2v, 1500w.

You are going to have the same amount of power whether you put it into a 100AH bank or a 280AH bank. But you will have more reserve in the 280AH bank, once it is charged up, for weeks you don't get as much sun. Get the batteries, then look at adding more or better panels down the road.

I just started on this stuff and built one 12V 280AH battery and I'm kicking my self for not getting a second set of cells. Mine 4 cells cost me $142 pre cell delivered to my door. If I'm reading the numbers right, you're getting the 32 cells for $114 a cell delivered.

 

[Steve_S]

PLUS the industry has to be hugel;y subsidized by the GOVT for it to make any profit ... YES the petroleum industry has its up and downs -

And the OIL / Gas Industry doesn't get 100's of billions in subsidies EVERY YEAR worldwide, even in the USA ? HALF Truths do not make an actual truth eh !

 

[Steve_S]

LET ME BE CLEAR and to the point.
​

Amy has shipped over 5000 280AH Cells to our membership now ! Appreciate that from such a volume, if issues existed they have been vetted here. Additionally, it underlines that this is s Reliable Vendor.

 

[Steve_S]

I love this setup -- digital and analog ......

I swear -- if Chargery and you could team and Chargery would make it worth your while -- you guys could rule the BMS market ... Thats the problem with the Chinese - extremely smart BUT lack the "outside of the box" thinking that drives me crazy ... I know it sounds racist but if I had a choice of a young Chinese PhD in EE and a old white Redneck Electrical Technician - I would choose the Old Redneck white guy -- cause he may not know the "right" answer but somehow he would get the damn thing to work ...

That is the software monitor provided by Midnite Solar Inc for their Solar Controllers.
I have a Modbus Application that does that and communicates with more but it's a lazy WIP and can't be shared due to material which requires NDA's with manufacturers like Samlex for one.

 

[Sgt Raven]

LET ME BE CLEAR and to the point.
​

Amy has shipped over 5000 280AH Cells to our membership now ! Appreciate that from such a volume, if issues existed they have been vetted here. Additionally, it underlines that this is s Reliable Vendor.

I'm not complaining about Amy or XUBA. I'm complaining about my shortsightedness and not doubling my order.
As I do for feedback on a good vendor on eBay, I would buy again from Amy....

 

[Steve_S]

I'm not complaining about Amy or XUBA. I'm complaining about my shortsightedness and not doubling my order.
As I do for feedback on a good vendor on eBay, I would buy again from Amy....

It was a General Statement for ALL readers, NOT aimed at you.
Sorry, I hit reply so it quoted you.... working on Coffee 1b and still a tad foggy. My days start @ 03:00 so I hafta take a nap in the middle of my day. Stupid health issues.

 

[Supervstech]

Steve, I was just thinking...I don't want to get a bank that the rest of my system doesn't really support. Like if I had all this capacity but it would take a week of sun to charge up. That wouldn't be practical for a completely off-grid home.
Is it easy to do the math on how many sun hours it would take for an LV2424 (w/ 80a SCC) to charge between 10% and 90% of a 280aH battery bank? My 24v panel array right now is series/paralleled to be max 16.54a and 75.2v, 1500w.

Remember, the bank is reserve... you use what you use, that is what has to be replenished.
If you have a 100Watt load, running 24/7 hooked up to a 3000Wh bank, and a 30,000Wh bank, your solar just has to put out the 2400Wh consumed...
The bank size is important to know, but too big a bank wont hurt anything g, unless you USE IT.

 

[Sgt Raven]

Remember, the bank is reserve... you use what you use, that is what has to be replenished.
If you have a 100Watt load, running 24/7 hooked up to a 3000Wh bank, and a 30,000Wh bank, your solar just has to put out the 2400Wh consumed...
The bank size is important to know, but too big a bank wont hurt anything g, unless you USE IT.

I had dual gas tanks on a pickup truck. Most the time I'd run around on one tank. But if I was on a long trip or found super cheap gas, then I'd fill both those puppies up....

 

[Capt Bill]

I took in this Tesla Batteries YouTube clip a few days ago,
... and it kind of blew my mind. Posted Mar 22, 2020; / 32 mins
about a number of rather mind blowing newer chemistries,
... also gave the LifePO4 chemistry a thumbs up (for now)

Tesla Super Batteries: Millions of Miles - Fast Charge - Light Weight

 

[Capt Bill]

Hello!

So im building a 24V battery for my LV2424 Hybrid system:

View attachment 5082

So, a couple of questions:

1.- Seems like William is testing a new battery almost each day ... so im unsure if the supplier that he linked in his site is still a recomended one. Im looking for 280AH Aluminum case batteries:. This are good?
Link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000450767063.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.34a33c00OO9NQW&mp=1

2.- The same supplier have some BMS's with the exact same design as Daly units, are they Daly's or just using the same case design?... should i buy from them and save some $$$ for shipping? or go with the Daly officials?
Link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047521998.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.19223c00QT9jX0&mp=1

3.- My inverter max output is 2.4kw, wich are 100A @24V. The peak output of the inverter can double that, so im using 200A rated cables. But in the case of the BMS, im unsure if i should use a 100A, or a 200A unit. Couldn't find in the datasheet any "peak" current, but found the sparkle current wich i think its the same. ..Almost sure i should go for the 100A one:

View attachment 5085

5.- According to this table, for 200A im good with a AWG2 Cable, is that correct?, or its better to go ahead with the 1/0?

View attachment 5086

6.- Does this BMS have internal fuse as the Battleborn batteries?, or should i still mantain my physical 200A fuse?. The inverter also has an internal 200A fuse, so im thinking 3 fuses its a little of an overkill, would preffer to have only 2.

7.- In summary, tts ok to 280AH battery, 100A BMS, and a 100A (2/4kw) inverter?. Anything else that i should look for?.

Notes:
- I live in a warm country and never had a sub zero degrees day, not worried about the batteries freezing, so im ok with the dalys. Also i like the case design.

Ill really appreciate any comments o guidance, good day!

looking at your web links and starting to study this thread to see what else I can learn (just ordered xuba Amy route 24v 280Ah with sea shipping for about $1K total ... see your link go to retail supplier at alibabexpress vs Alibaba at much higher price for 8 cells ... Head Up/ hope you did not order those yet.

 

[Capt Bill]

[QUOTE=" earlier in thread
Re: The LV2424 manual recommends 2 * 6 AWG, which, you'd have to double check, but I believe equals 1 * 4 AWG.

I have two LV2424s here to hookup , eventually for 220v split phase ... and my manual says 2*6 AWG or 2 AWG. (I was wondering about 2*6 thinking it give option to double cable 2 6 AWB for each postive or negative run between All In One Unit and Batteries. I am intending to make my own 2 AWG cables, and will choose to purchase supplies for 2 AWG wire to battery bank.

when evaluating wire size and BMS options (me): I register this from the LV2424 specs: Up to 80 amps into a charge from solar plus possible 60 Amp from Grid (all configurable) for max 140 amp charge (I limit mine to 80 amp max solar input/ unless I needed generator input in winter to recharge ) ; & my math brains thinks: I am looking at a max amp draw from 24v battery bank of 120 amp max (for 2400 watt output max with some efficiency loss through system) ... something to keep in mind for possible amps going through those battery wires

 

[Capt Bill]

Specs / Video Test Question: Just reviewed pictures and veido of the 8 x 280Ah LifePO4s I paid for at Xuba, via Amy.
I see a clip with my name on sign next to battery set showing 3.34 v for all 8 batteries, and a % number above the battery voltage.
Questions: Is that % related to internal resistance?? ... or what does that % # reflect??? the % numbers I saw were all 13% - 14% except one was 12% . I asked about the 12% one cell and asked if I could get a cell matching the 13% - 14%; but do not really know what I am looking at yet; or what the spec tolerance range is; or if my request has any chance of being realistic or honored (already paid/ and looks like cell were being packed for shipping (4.4.2020). Any quick Lesson about the % figures Welcome ;+) for newbie Learning More All the Time.

 

[heirloom hamlet]

Remember, the bank is reserve... you use what you use, that is what has to be replenished.
If you have a 100Watt load, running 24/7 hooked up to a 3000Wh bank, and a 30,000Wh bank, your solar just has to put out the 2400Wh consumed...
The bank size is important to know, but too big a bank wont hurt anything g, unless you USE IT.

That's good to keep in mind, thanks for that.

Qty	Ah	AVG Volts	Cell Wh	Total Wh		Cell cost	~shipping	$ total		$/Wh	$/kWh
XUBA
16​	90​	3.2​	288​	4608​		$28.50​	$171.00​	$627.00​		$0.14​	$136.07​
8​	105​	3.2​	336​	2688​		$35.19​	$171.00​	$452.52​		$0.17​	$168.35​
4​	120​	3.2​	384​	1536​		$36.80​	$171.00​	$318.20​		$0.21​	$207.16​
4​	152​	3.2​	486.4​	1945.6​		$70.00​	$171.00​	$451.00​		$0.23​	$231.81​
4​	280​	3.2​	896​	3584​		$82.67​	$252.40​	$583.08​		$0.16​	$162.69​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​

Of course shipping is based on their calculator on ALI.

I ran up each qty to the max before the calculator ran up to the next higher price point.

Based on this your money ahead and more flexible on voltage with 90Ah cells right now

Wait, so those 280aH bad boys, at 24v, are rated at over 7kwh?!

 

[DENWA]

That's good to keep in mind, thanks for that.

Wait, so those 280aH bad boys, at 24v, are rated at over 7kwh?!

yep!

Qty	Ah	AVG Volts	Cell Wh	Total Wh		Cell cost	~shipping	$ total		$/Wh	$/kWh
XUBA
16​	90​	3.2​	288​	4608​		$28.50​	$171.00​	$627.00​		$0.14​	$136.07​
8​	105​	3.2​	336​	2688​		$35.19​	$171.00​	$452.52​		$0.17​	$168.35​
4​	120​	3.2​	384​	1536​		$36.80​	$171.00​	$318.20​		$0.21​	$207.16​
4​	152​	3.2​	486.4​	1945.6​		$70.00​	$171.00​	$451.00​		$0.23​	$231.81​
4​	280​	3.2​	896​	3584​		$82.67​	$252.40​	$583.08​		$0.16​	$162.69​
8​	280​	3.2​	896​	7168​				$1,076.50​		$0.15​	$150.18​

 

[heirloom hamlet]

Here, when the fridge comes on, I'm using 9.8A, 6.1A when fridge is off. That is my general equipment that are on like the coffee maker, nuke, on-demand hot water heater And my Satellite Web Modem, Router HP DeskElite i7 & 47" LED Screen & Stereo. In my case the FLA being only capable of delivering 50% safely let me down but now as the LFP is coming online what a difference. I also have a fixed mounted rack @ 45deg, that's fine "in general" but it's short come winter due to lack of sun hours, so I am increasing to compensate for that short fall and increase my active reserve capacity. More info in the "About my System" link in my signature.

Is that an electric on demand hot water heater or gas fed with an electric panel only?

 

[heirloom hamlet]

yep!

Qty	Ah	AVG Volts	Cell Wh	Total Wh		Cell cost	~shipping	$ total		$/Wh	$/kWh
XUBA
16​	90​	3.2​	288​	4608​		$28.50​	$171.00​	$627.00​		$0.14​	$136.07​
8​	105​	3.2​	336​	2688​		$35.19​	$171.00​	$452.52​		$0.17​	$168.35​
4​	120​	3.2​	384​	1536​		$36.80​	$171.00​	$318.20​		$0.21​	$207.16​
4​	152​	3.2​	486.4​	1945.6​		$70.00​	$171.00​	$451.00​		$0.23​	$231.81​
4​	280​	3.2​	896​	3584​		$82.67​	$252.40​	$583.08​		$0.16​	$162.69​
8​	280​	3.2​	896​	7168​				$1,076.50​		$0.15​	$150.18​

Yeah baby!!! I never saw a spec on that in the descriptions.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Qty	Ah	AVG Volts	Cell Wh	Total Wh		Cell cost	~shipping	$ total		$/Wh	$/kWh
XUBA
16​	90​	3.2​	288​	4608​		$28.50​	$171.00​	$627.00​		$0.14​	$136.07​
8​	105​	3.2​	336​	2688​		$35.19​	$171.00​	$452.52​		$0.17​	$168.35​
4​	120​	3.2​	384​	1536​		$36.80​	$171.00​	$318.20​		$0.21​	$207.16​
4​	152​	3.2​	486.4​	1945.6​		$70.00​	$171.00​	$451.00​		$0.23​	$231.81​
4​	280​	3.2​	896​	3584​		$82.67​	$252.40​	$583.08​		$0.16​	$162.69​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​
			0​	0​				$0.00​		#DIV/0!​	#DIV/0!​

Of course shipping is based on their calculator on ALI.

I ran up each qty to the max before the calculator ran up to the next higher price point.

Based on this your money ahead and more flexible on voltage with 90Ah cells right now

SOOOO sometimes to get around the Aliexpress higher shipping if you will work directly with the vendor then they can often save a few ($$$) for you ...