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Cell prices coming down

Alarchist said:
I've just ordered Grade A (HSEV) Gotion 340ah from Gobelpower, which worked out only a bit more than EVE 304's from Luyuan, but almost an extra 3kWh for 24 cells, If i wanted 304's I would have got them from Luyuan though.
It worked out $128 per cell, DDP shipping was $400 to the UK, and after fees / exchange rates £2,940 / $3,744

But another supplier is claiming that the latest EVE LF280K have a capacity of 310ah on average!?

He shared the test report, and packaging:

View attachment 163341

View attachment 163342

I checked the QR checker, and only the date for B cells shows up!? He's adamant that they're EVE grade A not rewrapped LF304's, does it make sense EVE would make an LF280K with the same capacity as the 304!?
Click to expand...

Ok strange I tried row 1 and 10, which didn't work for A Grade, but row 2 does, although "Don't know yet" for nominal capacity, what's going on?? If EVE are making 310ah LF280K's why not re name them?

Screenshot 2023-08-18 160547.jpg
 
Alarchist said:
Ok strange I tried row 1 and 10, which didn't work for A Grade, but row 2 does, although "Don't know yet" for nominal capacity, what's going on?? If EVE are making 310ah LF280K's why not re name them?

View attachment 163351
Click to expand...
Eve isn't making 310 or 320AH cells, they make the LF304 cells , that will test the first few (10-20 cycle between 310 till 320 AH)
 
houseofancients said:
Eve isn't making 310 or 320AH cells, they make the LF304 cells , that will test the first few (10-20 cycle between 310 till 320 AH)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm very suspicious of the sellers claims, but has anyone tested the new LF280K V3 to confirm they are still only 290Ah tops, or could he be right? The cell test report, QR checker and box label point in that direction unless there's something fishy going on.

P.S. I'm not going to buy any, just want to make sure others aren't being mislead.
 
Alarchist said:
Yeah, I'm very suspicious of the sellers claims, but has anyone tested the new LF280K V3 to confirm they are still only 290Ah tops, or could he be right? The cell test report, QR checker and box label point in that direction unless there's something fishy going on.

P.S. I'm not going to buy any, just want to make sure others aren't being mislead.
Click to expand...
Me personally staying away from all 280 cells..
I usually stick to me ' good old and trusted LF304 cell' or very impressed lately with the envision 305 cells, so that might become my new go to

304 are less popular, so less none sense going on with them In general
 
houseofancients said:
Me personally staying away from all 280 cells..
I usually stick to me ' good old and trusted LF304 cell' or very impressed lately with the envision 305 cells, so that might become my new go to

304 are less popular, so less none sense going on with them In general
Click to expand...
Any suspicions on your end as to why they are less popular?
 
GOO5E said:
Any suspicions on your end as to why they are less popular?
Click to expand...
Probably because they are a bit more expensive, and people on look at the cycle count, which is half of the 280k's.
Untill recently the testing method was different for both

Lf304 : 3500 @ 1c
Lf280k 6000 @ .5c

In their new spec sheet ( and the debacle with 280k not pulling capacity and being majorly rejected by bus/car manufacturers ) the spec suspiciously changed to the same testing method

I never run my bank over .5c , so my lf304's will calenders age long before ever reaching their 80% cycle life ( both 3500 and 6000) .
80% is still a considerable capacity left over should anything change.

The envision cells are rated at 6000 @1c , so just about the same as my 304's , and their IR is just about the same too.
Big difference is that they are produced here in the EU ( for VW, BMW, Mercedes and Peugeot so car manufacturers) , I can get the here in the EU, at driving distance, and they are about 30 Euro less expensive for the same grading at the "big names"
Also, no more shady Chinese sellers because of EU warranty rules

All wins in my book
 
houseofancients said:
Lf304 : 3500 @ 1c
Lf280k 6000 @ .5c

I never run my bank over .5c , so my lf304's will calenders age long before ever reaching their 80% cycle life ( both 3500 and 6000) .
80% is still a considerable capacity left over should anything change.
Click to expand...
Does anyone here actually use 1C rate? That's a lot of amps. I'm genuinely curious.
 
LifeWAT said:
Does anyone here actually use 1C rate? That's a lot of amps. I'm genuinely curious.
Click to expand...
I am sure there are folks using that for car conversions, so there surely will be folks here running the "bleeding edge" , I am not one of them in any case ;)
 
houseofancients said:
Probably because they are a bit more expensive, and people on look at the cycle count, which is half of the 280k's.
Untill recently the testing method was different for both

Lf304 : 3500 @ 1c
Lf280k 6000 @ .5c

In their new spec sheet ( and the debacle with 280k not pulling capacity and being majorly rejected by bus/car manufacturers ) the spec suspiciously changed to the same testing method

I never run my bank over .5c , so my lf304's will calenders age long before ever reaching their 80% cycle life ( both 3500 and 6000) .
80% is still a considerable capacity left over should anything change.

The envision cells are rated at 6000 @1c , so just about the same as my 304's , and their IR is just about the same too.
Big difference is that they are produced here in the EU ( for VW, BMW, Mercedes and Peugeot so car manufacturers) , I can get the here in the EU, at driving distance, and they are about 30 Euro less expensive for the same grading at the "big names"
Also, no more shady Chinese sellers because of EU warranty rules

All wins in my book
Click to expand...
Hi.
Could you please post a link to those Envision cells being sold in EU?

I only bought from NKON until now and I'm curious as I need 8 more cells.

Thanks in advance
 
I would be more confident if these results can be verified by someone other than SFK... I have the zke and I downloaded the result but yeah would be better if someone else can verify the 280K V3 capacity tests. Intriguing, but people should not be jumping the gun on this cell just yet IMHO the 304 is still the tried and true with an established track record.
 
Alkaline said:
I would be more confident if these results can be verified by someone other than SFK... I have the zke and I downloaded the result but yeah would be better if someone else can verify the 280K V3 capacity tests. Intriguing, but people should not be jumping the gun on this cell just yet IMHO the 304 is still the tried and true with an established track record.
Click to expand...

It also now means assuming it's true, that Alibaba will be flooded with B grade LF304's rewrapped as LF280K V3 A grade, why are EVE not renaming it, it's stupid not to follow industry naming convention!?

They haven't even officially called it V3:
Pics of EVE label earlier in the thread
 
Alarchist said:
It also now means assuming it's true, that Alibaba will be flooded with B grade LF304's rewrapped as LF280K V3 A grade, why are EVE not renaming it, it's stupid not to follow industry naming convention!?

They haven't even officially called it V3:
Pics of EVE label earlier in the thread
Click to expand...
They can't be, the new 280's have hexagon pads..
That being said, I'll still hold off from the 280's..
Yes I don't trust SKF , but my dislike of them and their business practices is well known by now, more importantly the verbial "shit" didn't hit the fan with 280k's untill a good while after their introduction
 
Alarchist said:
It also now means assuming it's true, that Alibaba will be flooded with B grade LF304's rewrapped as LF280K V3 A grade, why are EVE not renaming it, it's stupid not to follow industry naming convention!?

They haven't even officially called it V3:
Pics of EVE label earlier in the thread
Click to expand...

Because at the end the day EVE is still a Chinese company and they do things the Chinese way and that means never admitting fault, they just quietly fixed it and now if someone questions the 280K they will be like wha? Look! Look at the capacity test you must have gotten grade B cells, not our genuine...

I don't know but can anyone do anything about it? Its not like we have alternatives... I do wish instead of putting a B they would just take a dremel tool and divit/mar the heck out of the qr code so bad that re-lasering becomes impossible.

That being said the NEW B is a BIG BOLD B so maybe it will be harder to laser.

But yes I can easily see grade B 280K V3 being re-lasered as 304 and it will probably pass capacity test most of the time. Or at the very least like every 280K V3 grade B would pass as being a 280 without issue.

In the end If the seller you are dealing with doesn't give you a test report, don't' argue with them just mentally know its grade B and pay accordingly ($80-$90/cell). None of the sellers that have the test report have any issue providing it to you.
 
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Alkaline said:
Because at the end the day EVE is still a Chinese company and they do things the Chinese way and that means never admitting fault, they just quietly fixed it and now if someone questions the 280K they will be like wha? Look! Look at the capacity test you must have gotten grade B cells, not our genuine...

I don't know but can anyone do anything about it? Its not like we have alternatives... I do wish instead of putting a B they would just take a dremel tool and divit/mar the heck out of the qr code so bad that re-lasering becomes impossible.

That being said the NEW B is a BIG BOLD B so maybe it will be harder to laser.

But yes I can easily see grade B 280K V3 being re-lasered as 304 and it will probably pass capacity test most of the time. Or at the very least like every 280K V3 grade B would pass as being a 280 without issue.

In the end If the seller you are dealing with doesn't give you a test report, don't' argue with them just mentally know its grade B and pay accordingly ($80-$90/cell). None of the sellers that have the test report have any issue providing it to you.
Click to expand...
Relasering can be done, but replacing the hexagon contact pads part of the internals of the cell is gonna be a whole lot more difficult
 
ArthurEld said:
I don't know why anyone cares about 10ah on a 280ah cell. It's a little more than 3.5%
People pay 100% extra to make sure they get that 3.5%. :)
Click to expand...

But the LF280K V3 according to SFK and the test sheet screen grab looks like it has over 310Ah, so over 30Ah or 11% extra capacity compared to previous versions nominal 280Ah, that's quite a difference!
 
ArthurEld said:
Does it cost less than 11% more than a 280ah cell?
Click to expand...

I had a quote from Luyuan @ $122 / cell for LF304 (A grade), and it looks like LF280K V3 (A grade) from them is the same, not sure what V2? still costs though? I've gone for GobelPower with the Gotion 340Ah (A grade) @ $128 / cell they had LF304 (B grade) for $107 - all before shipping and taxes to the UK.

It's a similar 30ah extra going from LF280K (V2?) > LF280k V3, for me going from the EVE LF304 (310Ah) > Gotion 340Ah = 30Ah extra for $6 / cell or 5% more cost, but the main factor was having a 26kWh bank vs 23kWh bank for 24 cells (8s3p 24v)

*Edit
The Gotion 340 factory test they sent me showed an average 344Ah / cell
The EVE LF280K V3 factory test shows an average 314Ah / cell
 
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