Ozark Tinkering
Solar Addict
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2021
- Messages
- 1,109
That's a sober and clear eyed look, @wattmatters everyone would do well to consider.
You can elect new political leaders but the infrastructure cost does not go away. The public in a first world country demands access to power as a right to an essential service and someone, (everyone?) has to pay for it.But that could be claimed about anything.. which is why we vote people in and out of office.
there is plenty of cons when living "fully off grid" from a technical perspective.First post so please go easy.
Ive been using 2 2kw GTIL inverters for a couple years now as my system grows (I know they catch a lot of flack, but they actually work really well). We recently had a decent snow storm roll in and I decided to switch over to my pair of MPP Solar 3048lv-mk's. I did this to protect my grid tie inverters in the case of a surge, and to make sure my greenhouse didn't lose power to its heaters while I was asleep knowing damn well the temps would be pretty cold at night, and it could have produced some decent freezing rain.
I am now 5 days in with my main breaker off and really haven't changed my lifestyle at all. Even my girlfriend says she often forgets we are off grid, and my project not being a pain to her is a requirement of mine. My setup isn't crazy, I am running 4kw of panels, 21 KWH of DIY Li-ion batteries, a Midnite solar classic 150, and the 6kw of inverters I mentioned before. Along with adding solar I have made some changes to the house to reduce my load such as re-insulating the attic and swapping the water heater with a heat pump water heater that I will be ducting into the house in the summer, and here soon I will be adding a small geothermal A/C to my house.
Being 5 days into this it has made me rethink even being connected to the grid. The reason I am turning to you guys is 1, there are many of you with real world experience, and 2, I have concerns that I would like to talk over with people here. Convenience is a huge factor to me for my girlfriend like I said before, I know myself and I will happily heat water on the wood stove for a bath to achieve my goals, but that doesn't go over well for everyone...
With summer around the corner I will be obviously using the A/C more, my greenhouse fans will be running much more often, and my well pump will be working more to water the plants for the farm. I don't plan on going off grid fully until I actually fully test out a summer with this setup, but I can't help but wonder what other issues I could run into.
My question for you guys is should I continue with my GTIL setup to offset my cost and just have the MPP inverters there in case of a power out situation? Or is it worth saving the $20 or so a month to call my power company and tell them to cut me off, sell the GTIL's and add more MPP inverters? What other considerations should I have other than summer power usage and potential (normal) failures?
Thank you all in advance.
Maybewould probably fall under "Equal protection under the law" which is in the 14th Amendment.
I wonder what they define as “nearby”.In California the building codes require a connection if one is available nearby. Perhaps the Amish never had power poles in their neighborhoods and they may have influenced building codes in their area.
Exactly. In California they can force you to have a connection but there is no requirement to use that connection.
I’m comforted and comfortable with me as a backup plan. I can afford me, and I don’t have to wait for me to show up. Plus me installed the stuff; if I had to call for service someone would have to figure out the system while charging me by the hour. If I have a problem, me already knows the system and me can assess the situation pretty quickly. Me hasn’t done anything I don’t understand.Just the general stress of knowing you are the backup plan. As least it stresses me out sometimes.
I feel that way sometimes. It's definitely satisfying when everything is humming along smoothly. In fact, it's something i never had the opportunity to feel when i lived in suburbia connected to the grid, so that's pretty cool. There are times I'm sitting in my living room with the ac's blowing cold, watching satellite tv with a cold one i just pulled from the fridge.... i still can't believe it's possible that i was capable of making it happen without burning anything down. But that's not what the OP asked about.I’m comforted and comfortable with me as a backup plan. I can afford me, and I don’t have to wait for me to show up. Plus me installed the stuff; if I had to call for service someone would have to figure out the system while charging me by the hour. If I have a problem, me already knows the system and me can assess the situation pretty quickly. Me hasn’t done anything I don’t understand.
I’m comforted that everything is up to me. Plus I have enough spare of everything including SCC and inverters, fuses, and even some panels and wire, a few hundred terminals…
Being off grid and responsible for everything is not really a downside in my opinion.
What's the backup plan when you can't do what's needed? e.g. you are ill, or injured, or away from home, or infirmed for some reason.I’m comforted and comfortable with me as a backup plan.
Same here.. Grid tied, but fully capable of being without the grid and living comfortably with all the modern amenities..I have grid backup (and use it daily) but my system is designed to be 100% off-grid and to power the house without grid in a Puerto Rico type emergency AND just as a goal to see if we can be Offgrid but yet In the City
But the off-grid system WOULD BE the service.. I'm kind of surprised this issue hasn't ended up in the Supreme Court yet.. and since it hasn't, I suspect much of the "its illegal" complaints are a bit of hyperbole.Can you cancel your grid service? I suspect NO. In many jurisdictions you could loose your 'certificate of occupancy' if you don't have services at your residence. So you may need to maintain grid service, but you don't have to use it.
Oh man.... December and January are horror months. I made 185 in December and 260 in January.. Luckily, February is looking much better.Back to pros/cons. I've gradually expanded my system so I can run 8 months of the year with no grid and the only thing I'd have to give up is the spa. However - winter is a problem. I've converted the house to all electric - e.g. whole house heat pump - but this December we only brought in 250kwh for the month!!!! worst ever in the last 3 years - and illustrated that 30days of no sun can just throw a monkey wrench into 100% solar.
Noodling on more panels, propane/generator backup, and even wood boiler / hot-water heat... OR just suffering thru a bad solar month in the trailer for warmth (e.g. much smaller place to heat).
For now - some backup grid is just prudent
My friend Ramel is capable. Former cell service tech. Phone call. But honestly? My solar power system didn’t know I had covid in December and just kept workingWhat's the backup plan when you can't do what's needed? e.g. you are ill, or injured, or away from home, or infirmed for some reason.
Yes sir - I have 42 panels (12kw) under the house for deployment into the back yard for winter months in an extreme emergency. The plan is to parallel them into the existing charge controllers since production is so low it won't overload them. Also bought wire and working on a companion stockpile of universal strut & accessories to prop them up.We keep an extra 7 kW of solar panels in storage, along with extra inverters.. If I got that desperate, I could increase the size of my system by 60% and that would reduce generator usage.
Agreed and thanks for sharing - I'm not the only one!It feels good to have all that security.
It confuses me to a point.Funny how some States demand you be grid connected OR ELSE
That’s a little bit of ignorant stereotyping right there. Fairly ignorant actually.If people can afford $80K 4x4 jacked up trucks, they can afford a totally off-grid solar system. Oh, but everyone won’t see my solar system driving through our dump of a town 5 times/day.
I understand the safety reasons. I am also passionate about my right to self generate without restriction and have no issue with the $10 a month minimum fee. It is inexpensive backup and even though clouds lower my production they do bring rain which the environment needs.Funny how some States demand you be grid connected OR ELSE
That's good to know. But my point wasn't directed at you specifically (although it read that way), I was just using it as an example.My friend Ramel is capable. Former cell service tech. Phone call. But honestly? My solar power system didn’t know I had covid in December and just kept working
Excellent points. Honestly i hate thinking about the position i would leave my wife and father in if i wasn't able to take care of these systems. I've tried to give them both a working knowledge, but they just don't get 98.2% of what's going on.That's good to know. But my point wasn't directed at you specifically (although it read that way), I was just using it as an example.
These are things you have to think about when going off-grid. Already we have people on this thread telling us they are stockpiling spare panels, inverters, cable and sundry equipment. They will need to have all the tools and equipment necessary for repair or installation as well.
But backup for the equipment isn't enough. We also need backup for ourselves.
If the local grid goes down, well there is an army of contractors and/or staff who are deployed/employed to fix it. If Fred is off work due to injury, well they call in someone else to the job. But when you are off-grid then you are exposed to your own self being in good shape. Not everyone will be in good shape for ever. I'm an amputee and do OK, managed to get on the roof to put up a small array. But eventually I'll probably be wheelchair bound. If I need to fix an array or replace an inverter, well I'm going to be waiting for an installer to do the fix. And that will likely take weeks to months, e.g. right now there's a 3-4 week wait to get an electrician just to do some straightforward circuit board work I need sorting (our code prohibits DIY for such a supply, even if you are off-grid).