Cons of going off grid?

[Goboatingnow]

It's over a mile to power for me and an uncooperative electric company. So maybe $150k? Including poles, wire, clearing of the right away. Plus making it more of a pain in the ass for the neighbors to farm row crop ground (more of a slight annoyance for this one). The bright point is no zoning, no code enforcement, no permissions, no restrictions.

I agree , in some places getting a connection is widely expensive and that changes everything. There are always edge case justifications

 

[Goboatingnow]

Maybe if the USA is such an awful place ,you may be happier taking a hike to where you rolled in from…
This is a forum on electrical concepts ,not a platform to bash America.. Have a nice life pal..

Not bashing it , didn’t say it was an awful place , ( those are your words ) just a comment based on my direct comparative experiences. Living “of the grid “ in a rule based society is it itself an application of a set of rules. I didn’t say all that bureaucracy was “ good “ or “ bad “ just that imho the US has a lot of it.


Living of the grid in a less formal society then the US is simpler because the rules are not there in the first place.

Disconnecting from the grid is not a technical discussion , at a technical level , if grid access is available then it’s technical madness not to have a connection. In that case disconnecting from the grid is a “political “ statement and several posters here applied the “ I want to live free “ etc etc. from gov rules , and so forth. As I opined if you want to live free from rules the US isn’t the best place to start with !!!

I can equally bash several other countries too, I’m nothing if not an equal opportunity basher.?

Oh and be nice I didn’t personally attack you.

This whole thread is not technical connecting to the grid brings a series of technical benefits with virtually no technical downsides. Cost , your desire to be “ free” , whatever that means to you , is entirely non technical and largely subjective

 

[JRH]

Not bashing it , just a comment based on my direct comparative experiences. Living “of the grid “ in a rule based society is it itself an application of a set of rules. I didn’t say all that bureaucracy was “ good “ or “ bad “ just that imho the US has a lot of it.


Living of the grid in a less formal society then the US is simpler because the rules are not there in the first place.

I can speak very well using 20 dollar words and evasive slippery phrasing too…but I won’t… what you said was very rude , offensive and uncalled for .. and your deflecting after the fact is somewhat transparent……if your going to live here, get some manners..
im out of here .. bye.

 

[Goboatingnow]

I can speak very well using 20 dollar words and evasive slippery phrasing too…but I won’t… what you said was very rude , offensive and uncalled for .. and your deflecting after the fact is somewhat transparent……if your going to live here, get some manners..
im out of here .. bye.

I said nothing rude or offensive I merely offered a comparative experience

Sorry to see u go, Here’s your coat ?

 

[Danke]

Not bashing it , didn’t say it was an awful place , ( those are your words ) just a comment based on my direct comparative experiences. Living “of the grid “ in a rule based society is it itself an application of a set of rules. I didn’t say all that bureaucracy was “ good “ or “ bad “ just that imho the US has a lot of it.


Living of the grid in a less formal society then the US is simpler because the rules are not there in the first place.

Disconnecting from the grid is not a technical discussion , at a technical level , if grid access is available then it’s technical madness not to have a connection. In that case disconnecting from the grid is a “political “ statement and several posters here applied the “ I want to live free “ etc etc. from gov rules , and so forth. As I opined if you want to live free from rules the US isn’t the best place to start with !!!

I can equally bash several other countries too, I’m nothing if not an equal opportunity basher.?

Oh and be nice I didn’t personally attack you.

This whole thread is not technical connecting to the grid brings a series of technical benefits with virtually no technical downsides. Cost , your desire to be “ free” , whatever that means to you , is entirely non technical and largely subjective

I know what I’m attempting is not currently practical in monetary terms, as I live 45N in a large metropolitan area with relatively cheap electric and gas rates. It is becoming a hobby, maybe an expensive one, but a lot of guys are into that, boating, flying, golf, etc.
Me? I like exploring new endeavors, being challenged and tinkering.

Psychologically , I like the idea of being independent of a monopolist utility company if I must. Still planning on remaining tied, but hopefully only gas will be needed in winter for heating, partially supplemented with solar electricity.

And I am not confident electric rates will remain low, so solar to me is also a hedge. If gasoline prices stay high or even goes higher, I may drive an EV someday. Charging it mostly with my solar production.

 

[SilverbackMP]

I can speak very well using 20 dollar words and evasive slippery phrasing too…but I won’t… what you said was very rude , offensive and uncalled for .. and your deflecting after the fact is somewhat transparent……if your going to live here, get some manners..
im out of here .. bye.

I don’t think he’s wrong. There’s a ton of places in the US that I wouldn’t settle long term. Heck, there some that I wouldn’t even now visit.

But there’s still some freedom left in some of the “fly over states.”

 

[Maitake]

It confuses me to a point.
Solar customers install solar (invest money) to benefit themselves. If others do not have solar why should solar owners have to subsidize that? “They” say it’s not fair to have grid available but get reduced rates since poor folks can’t afford solar. With this logic new car buyers should be subsidizing used car buyers purchase of cars.

I understand there needs to be some infrastructure cost recapture for solar owners that depend on grid, but basic high school accounting would say that a flat connection fee for all customers equally makes sense rather than cut the return on investment a solar owner could experience

Everything, everywhere is a social program.

 

[Goboatingnow]

I know what I’m attempting is not currently practical in monetary terms, as I live 45N in a large metropolitan area with relatively cheap electric and gas rates. It is becoming a hobby, maybe an expensive one, but a lot of guys are into that. Boating, flying, golf, etc. I like exploring new endeavors, being challenged and tinkering.

Psychologically , I like the idea of being independent of a monopolist utility company if I must. Still planning on remaining tied, but hopefully only gas will be needed in winter for heating, partially supplemented with solar electricity.

And I am not confident electric rates will remain low, so solar to me is also a hedge. If gasoline prices stay high or even goes higher, I may drive an EV someday. Charging it mostly with my solar production.

Like I said cutting off from the grid is a “ political “ decision not a technical one. Where the grid was available i would always have it connected as backup.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Everything, everywhere is a social program.

True in the most. Tax’s are there to build a society , in theory , for the common good , and are a form of wealth distribution in some part

Tax back incentives or any form of means tested societal incentives are there to allow people without sufficient means to participate in society “ to some extent “ , this could be Education or solar installs! Depending on the “ policy du jour”

It’s all a ham fisted approach to equality societal cohesion , societal goals ( ie climate change so incentivise solar ) and so forth.

All part of living in a modern wealthy state. !!

 

[Prefersdirt]

I am not trying to be off grid ,while there is a real grid…I just want my OWN grid in case there is no other grid.

I love this statement. Sums things up perfectly!

 

[Weldman]

Forgive me. But I never understand the attraction of fully off-grid. I can understand people wanting to have largely independent power generation but the not have the backup of the grid is nuts.

Here we have no legal requirement to connect to the grid ( and property taxes amount to $120 a year ! ) if you do connect to the grid , ie have a meter the daily standing charge is about the equivalent of $50 a month even if you consume nothing, you can terminate your contract and disconnect for a small disconnection fee.

Water and sewerage where available are covered by general taxation and therefore free at the point of supply.

Everytime i run thd numbers for a substantial PV system the payback is 12 + years. I’ve never stayed in the same house that long !!!! . Solar is great where you can’t access the grid outside of that I struggle to see justification.

In 8 years I’ve suffered one grid failure 3 hours one Saturday, living of grid when I was a boy was not unusual , it was called “ being poor “

As an aside having lived in the US , it’s not the land of the free at all. It’s one of the most rule bound bureaucratic societies I’ve ever lived in. ( with more police then any other place I’ve lived ) I agree something needs to change. It was worse then Germany and they have a rule for everything !!

Keeps the neighbors out, the land is cheap, more often than not no building codes you are at your own peril and I don't have to look at development. I can look out my door and not see one power pole in site or any utilities, no one is snooping up here checking on when power goes out trying to find the fault and lastly in fire prone area I don't have to worry about wildfires started by arcing lines or fallen power lines. Only $120 a year for taxes, how large of a parcel, for about 20 acres here it's only $90 till you plop a structure on it which then becomes $500 for mobile home and goes up from there.
I see the future as EV becomes more prevalent that electric rates will start to fluctuate like gas prices.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Keeps the neighbors out, the land is cheap, more often than not no building codes you are at your own peril and I don't have to look at development. I can look out my door and not see one power pole in site or any utilities, no one is snooping up here checking on when power goes out trying to find the fault and lastly in fire prone area I don't have to worry about wildfires started by arcing lines or fallen power lines. Only $120 a year for taxes, how large of a parcel, for about 20 acres here it's only $90 till you plop a structure on it which then becomes $500 for mobile home and goes up from there.
I see the future as EV becomes more prevalent that electric rates will start to fluctuate like gas prices.

How does not having a grid “ keep the neighbours out “ and snoopers , oh huh you mean linesmen, snooping on you. Clearly you must be really important and high profile for all that interest in you.

I presume you don’t shop for things , bank accounts. own a car. Pay any taxes. I mean the number of snoopers that brings , phew

 

[Weldman]

How does not having a grid “ keep the neighbours out “ and snoopers , oh huh mean linesmen.

I presume you don’t shop for things , one a car. Pay any taxes. I mean the number of snoopers that brings , phew

Easy, someone owns the land next to you whether they live there or not. No one lives next to me cause they can't afford to bring in power up here and are afraid to go with solar for the harsh weather out here. As for the linesmen there is no utilities to come check on or maintain. I pay land tax and that's it, this is a tax free state.

 

[Mattb4]

Interesting Thread. Although I live fairly remote I have a local utility Coop that supplies grid electricity. The price is low and my use is kept low by simply practicing good conservation. My home is all electric. No gas or propane. My daily usage runs between 9-10kwh Winter and up to a high of 21kwh this July due to A/C from record heat. So my Bill almost hit $90! But at that I consider it cheap comparing it to trying to setup a off grid setup to accomplish the same thing.

I do have a backup generator for power outage and now some solar for a retirement hobby or the coming Zombie Apocalypse. Neither of which is capable of economically comparing to the grid bought electricity costs.

Many things we do and buy in life are done to please ourselves with no requirement that they pay for themselves. If you find satisfaction with being off grid than great. It is not something to create a movement about or instate a holier than thou situation. Life is much happier when you do not feel the need to change others.

So to answer the question, Cons of going off grid? In my opinion the biggest one is price. It just costs more to generate my own power than it is to buy it. I do not delude myself and fail to add up the entire costs.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

NC is a great solar state.
Full net metering, and zero off grid subsidies.

Like I said cutting off from the grid is a “ political “ decision not a technical one. Where the grid was available i would always have it connected as

How does not having a grid “ keep the neighbours out “ and snoopers , oh huh you mean linesmen, snooping on you. Clearly you must be really important and high profile for all that interest in you.

I presume you don’t shop for things , bank accounts. own a car. Pay any taxes. I mean the number of snoopers that brings , phew

Snooping as in County inspectors.

Famous for just rolling up on your property anytime they feel like it and start asking questions or fining you for something.

Kind of like HOA busy bodies.

 

[Hedges]

One downside of being on-grid: Powerline transients.

A long overhead line has more opportunity to get coupled transient from lightning.
Switching of loads, utility transformer and compensation taps, etc. generate transients.

Surge arrestors can attenuate brief transients, might extend life of equipment otherwise damaged over time.

Anybody know how well transformers protect against such things? Seems to me higher frequencies (sharp rise times) would be attenuated. How about direct lightning strikes? Those might not get significant voltage past a transformer - break down from primary to chassis, dump current into ground. Possibly just inductive bounce of chassis capacitively coupling into secondary. Would also block DC; EMP or solar storm picked up by long wires could saturate transformer primary causing failure, but shorter secondary would pick up less.

I'm considering getting a transformer to do separately derived neutral, so thinking about what it means.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Easy, someone owns the land next to you whether they live there or not. No one lives next to me cause they can't afford to bring in power up here and are afraid to go with solar for the harsh weather out here. As for the linesmen there is no utilities to come check on or maintain. I pay land tax and that's it, this is a tax free state.

I live 9 months on a boat. I decide whose around me or nobody. , no taxes , fully off grid, scenery changes every day. No county inspectors neither.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I live 9 months on a boat. I decide whose around me or nobody. , no taxes , fully off grid, scenery changes every day. No county inspectors neither.

Most of us aren’t that fortunate.

What do you do the other 3 months for a residence?

 

[Goboatingnow]

Most of us aren’t that fortunate.

What do you do the other 3 months for a residence?

Sadly I go back to my grid connected house

 

[Weldman]

I live 9 months on a boat. I decide whose around me or nobody. , no taxes , fully off grid, scenery changes every day. No county inspectors neither.

Some of us like to do things with our lives and not trapped on a boat confined by the square footage our boat is. Yeah you can hop on land time to time wherever walk around and that's it. Which that in itself is limitation of how far you go if you can't get transportation. You must not be in the US, instead of county inspectors you would have US Coast Guard that can board anytime for inspection going by ABYC's and their requirements.