Converting hydro output to battery bank

[Hedges]

45 meters, 148’

"I have 77’ worth of drop where I’d build a little water retention."

If you have 148' of head, that's twice the energy per gallon as 77'
So I'd rather make use of that.

Way beyond the head given on charts for Turbin. Would Harris work for you?
2 GPM and up. I'd suggest 4 nozzle, with a valve to enable 2 large ones when you have more water.
Or something like that. I prefer the idea of symmetry, but 4 nozzles of different sizes would allow 16 different flow rates.

 

[GFruge]

I only have 77’ worth of drop at my site. A comment was posted that the item I’m looking at only had data on its chart of a maximum of 45’. I corrected that comment by commenting that the data was in meters. Maximum head shown is 45 meters. 45 meters is equivalent to 148’

 

[Hedges]

Oops!
OK, 77' = 23m, well within the charts.
So a question of flow rate and voltage. If flow varies during the year, valve to enable additional nozzles should work.
At half the rated head (RPM), I think you will be voltage challenged.

I think I see 3 wires, 3-phase alternator.
DC-DC boost as you suggest is one possibility.

I might try using 3x transformers, each with 120/240V primary wired in series. The Wired to 2-legs of 24Vrms Delta, that would produce something less than 48V delta. Wiring secondary in series with primary would produce additional voltage.

More ideal is to have an alternator that directly delivers the desired voltage.
The alternator is likely wired as Delta. If the windings were accessible to rewire as Wye, that would give sqrt(3) = 1.7x higher voltage.

 

[FilterGuy]

Hmmm I contacted the company making the turbine listed in the OP and asked if they had a 48V version. This is the response:

Thank you for your interest in our products.

We don't have 48V version at this moment, but our next production after summer will be the 48V version.

Stay tuned for more!

 

[GFruge]

Very nice. I may have to wait until then. I spoke them before. They seem to be very knowledgeable. Their product and company are out of Greece. Seems like lots of renewable projects in that part of the world

 

[CoolWill]

Simple is better. You could probably find a transformer that would work. Take the AC voltage up 8-10 times, and use a standard grid powered switchmode charger. It will have a wide input voltage, 100-260 V probably. No hard-to-find boost converters feeding other circuits.

 

[FilterGuy]

Simple is better. You could probably find a transformer that would work. Take the AC voltage up 8-10 times, and use a standard grid powered switchmode charger. It will have a wide input voltage, 100-260 V probably. No hard-to-find boost converters feeding other circuits.

I beleive the output is DC

 

[Hedges]

While a switch mode AC power supply would likely work with wild frequency AC and with DC (We're using DC input for a project at work), most such supplies output fixed voltage and all the current desired by load. May not do what you want with variable input current capability. Some I've seen burn up under brownout conditions.

If fed through a switcher, I think you need something similar to MPPT algorithm. Constant input voltage is what's used in Windy Boy for turbine.

With suitably higher alternator voltage than load (step-up or better the coming 48V model), PWM (with dump load?) regulator to the battery sounds like a good way to go. At least for lead-acid. For lithium I think I'd rather have linear shunt regulator, so voltage is regulated to target. That can be a pull-down NPN or NMOS transistor in linear mode, with zener & resistor circuit enabling it at desired voltage. Power resistor can take some of the dissipation.

 

[FilterGuy]

I only have 77’ worth of drop at my site. A comment was posted that the item I’m looking at only had data on its chart of a maximum of 45’. I corrected that comment by commenting that the data was in meters. Maximum head shown is 45 meters. 45 meters is equivalent to 148’

Based on the experience I had with the Watter Buddy.

1) Definitely no less than a 3" penstock. 3.5" or 4" would be better. Anything over 4" is overkill
2) You may not get the full 200W, but if you have 4 nozzles, you might come close
3) Be careful with the design of the manifold to split out for the 4 nozzles. A bad design can create turbulence that reduces the flow/pressure at the nozzle.

• keep the pipes large as reasonable right up to the Nozzle (Ideally the step down to the nozzle would be tapered, but that is hard to accomplish)
• Avoid sharp angles and T fittings

 

[FilterGuy]

BTW: Even if you dont get the full 200W, that small little turbine can generate a surprising amount of energy.

175W x 24hr = 4200Wh.

 

[GFruge]

Even with the 48v model, I’m sure I’ll still need a step up to achieve the 52-56v requirement for charging.

And yes, I’ll call it success if I can achieve 3000Wh.

The linear, NPN, NMOS is over my head. I’ll have to consult you guys when I start getting my parts and pieces together.

 

[FilterGuy]

Even with the 48v model, I’m sure I’ll still need a step up to achieve the 52-56v requirement for charging

Check with them, but I am reasonably confident the 48V model will be 48V Nominal with a voltage range that will cover what you need.

 

[Hedges]

48V model would be meant for 48V battery charging, don't think step-up is required.
It might put out 48Vrms or so, peak 1.4x higher.

Although, voltage directly proportional to RPM. Discuss with vendor the head you have.
Different turbine diameter would be a way to alter RPM, but likely they have one size only.
Alternator windings would be 2x turn count, half the cross section, for double.
Since they offer 12/24V, could be 4x for 48V.

 

[NC_hydro]

Kansaswindpower.net has 48v hydro for low head high head low flow high flow etc

 

[Ptom]

My grid tied 900 watt hydro uses NO charge controller, the Outback inverter rides herd on battery voltage, shunting it into the grid as fast as it arrives. I've never felt inspired enough to try a MPPT controller, as I have surplus power anyway. As far as a dump load , I use a MorningStar load controller, for when the grid goes down, and big resistors. 147' of head in 1/4 mile, 3" fusion welded pipe. Late in the season 3" is too big, early, it's too small, a good compromise in other words. Keeping it full is critical, any pressure loss really kills power, I start with two 7/16" nozzles, and by late fall am down to 300 watts and two 1/4" nozzles.

 

[Ptom]

Kansaswindpower.net has 48v hydro for low head high head low flow high flow etc

I used to deal with them back in the '70's, I think I may have bought a 12 V Wincharger from him! Didn't know they were still kicking, I'm going to call him tomorrow and bounce some ideas off him about using the 155 pound alternator from the A.R.E. wind turbine I just bought.

 

[NC_hydro]

I used to deal with them back in the '70's, I think I may have bought a 12 V Wincharger from him! Didn't know they were still kicking, I'm going to call him tomorrow and bounce some ideas off him about using the 155 pound alternator from the A.R.E. wind turbine I just bought.

We are using one nozzle from one of the high head low flow Harris turbines since 2008. 2" pipe with a 5/16” nozzle and 133’ of head. Due to the pelton wheel being polished from running since 2008 we only get 350watts vs 400 or so it used to get. We’re going to add three more nozzles when we switch from FLA batteries to a larger LifePo setup. Kansas City wind power has a stainless model now as well as the brass one we have.

 

[Ptom]

We are using one nozzle from one of the high head low flow Harris turbines since 2008. 2" pipe with a 5/16” nozzle and 133’ of head. Due to the pelton wheel being polished from running since 2008 we only get 350watts vs 400 or so it used to get. We’re going to add three more nozzles when we switch from FLA batteries to a larger LifePo setup. Kansas City wind power has a stainless model now as well as the brass one we have.

Yes, they will wear out gradually, the bronze ones anyway, mine have, the newer stainless ones are supposed to be bulletproof.

 

[Warpspeed]

The hydro generator is a 24v AC unit. My batteries are 48v DC.

Don't overlook the fact that the output voltage produced by most if not all generators and alternators is proportional to rpm.

There is no practical reason why a machine "advertised" as a 24v unit, cannot be run at 48v, provided that whatever drives it can also run efficiently at a suitable speed.