the_colorist
"Move over... let me fix it" Installer/Engineer
120/240V Split-Phase. Roughly equivalent to the SOL-ARK 15K.
DEYE Inverter UL Listed available in US
- Thread starter solardad
- Start date
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Thanks for the explanation. I just assumed that my connection was the only one that would be disconnected, but the scenerio you outlined is just as likely. I have seen the impact of loosing a neutral. Both of those cases resulted in some equipment being damaged from the voltage swings.
the_colorist
"Move over... let me fix it" Installer/Engineer
Sadly no, Deye never released a sheet to my knowledge. It wasn't added as a catalog product either as SOL-ARK got the UL for the 12KW split-phase units, Deye didn't. Hence as a Deye product/branding they are non-UL.
the_colorist,
I just saw a new 24V Hybrid show up on Deye’s website (SUN-3K-SG04LP1-24-EU):
https://www.deyeinverter.com/deyeinverter/2021/09/08/【b】hybridinvertersun-3-6k-sg04lp1.pdf
Any chance you can get ahold of some of these? There seems to not even be a manual released yet, so I suspect this new offering may be hot off the presses.
Interested in anything you are able to learn about this new 24V hybrid offering…
fafrd: tell me why your interest lies in 24v. I'm interested to know. Existing equipment? Specific batteries? Safety? THX
Hah, that’s a very good question.
First and foremost, in terms of a small-scale system to offset some consumption, battery cost is a major factor in the ROI and a 24V / 8-cell battery has a lower cost than a 48V 16-cell battery (including the fact that a 2-cell 24V LA battery has a lower cost than a 4-cell 48V LA battery).
So if you are just trying to invest in a minimum-sized setup to offset some load, only needing 2-3kW of peak power and using a small battery to average out loading (from fridges, for example) and time-shift some offset of self-consumption from low-value daytime hours to higher-valued peak hours in the evening after the sun has gone down, 24V is an attractive option.
Secondly, 24V batteries are ‘safer’ than 48V batteries and J believe the code requirements are slightly easier for 24V DC systems than 48V DC systems.
And then lastly, for my specific situation dealing with pretty catastrophic shading, charging a 24V battery can be more efficient than charging a 48V battery.
I’ve got all panels half-shaded across their lower half through pretty much the whole morning (while the top halves are clear).
Using standard-cut panels, I’d lose ~50% of my no-shade production, no matter what.
Using half-cut panels in a parallel array to charge a 24V battery, I’m able to recover ~half of that production lost to shading for only a ~25% loss of my no-shade production.
Using those same half-cut panels to charge a 48V battery, I’d need to move to a 2S string, so I’ll lose a bit of production until a full half of each panel-pair is clear. That’s not the end of the world, but since I have 3 panels, that means moving to a 3S string which won’t start producing until all panels are at least half-clear.
For small-scale systems focused on offsetting some consumption and especially time-shifting to cover some/most peak-period consumption (possibly in combination with an existing grid-tied system, which is my case), 24V batteries, modestly-powered low-cost AC-coupled inverters, and 1S parallel strings of a few panels are the most attractive configuration with the shortest ROI…
hipringles
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
- Messages
- 214
ARe these listed somewhere? or sold privately?
Good comments. Thanks. Your logic is sound too. What do you think about the concept of using 24v, smallish inverters each feeding individual circuit panels? Multiple smaller panels.
Thanks!
It’s really a question of what your goals are.
A single larger battery provides the greatest bang-for-the-buck in terms or ability to direct that power anywhere. Whether feeding multiple small inverters versus one larger one really just translates to peak power requirements (and cost).
And charging from a single larger charger versus multiple smaller chargers really boils down to how many independent MPPTs you need to handle differing array voltage & power requirements (and again, cost).
If you have multiple small MPPTs charging multiple small (independent) batteries feeding multiple small inverters, you are locked in to that power distribution and have lost all flexibility to surge more power/energy to specific locations when they need it.
fafrd: one more please! Assumptions: a house with options for panels oriented in multiple directions, >100kwh batteries already on site that can be set up as 24 or 48 volt, wiring already separated into multiple panels whereby one all 240 loads are in one panel, and other panels are set up according to priority. A 3000va Quattro on site. The only 240 load that is important is mini-splits, but not crucial. Lots of smaller term power outages. Most energy consumed during the day, not at night. Very cold winters, biggest worry is power outages during super cold temps.
Our place is set up in wings, with one dedicated for a future live-in area for a relative, if needed. Main source of heat is natural gas. No time of day metering here.
I prefer backups to backups.
Opinions? THX!
Our place is set up in wings, with one dedicated for a future live-in area for a relative, if needed. Main source of heat is natural gas. No time of day metering here.
I prefer backups to backups.
Opinions? THX!
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,841
Natural gas generator for backup to PV/batteries. That can be auto-start or manual.
Might make sense to have separate battery backup system for one truly "critical loads" backup (alarm, communications, etc.)
Otherwise I would have a large system and control loads to shed less important ones when less power available. But not more load connected than the inverter can kick over, so it doesn't shut down before shedding can be accomplished.
I plan to put in a 12VDC backup system, since several devices run off 12V AC adapters. This would be powered by the grid-backup PV system, also its own PV & SCC.
Hedges: Thanks for the comments. I like the idea of nearly fail-safe small unit for truly critical loads. I have some LTO for that. LTO is extremely safe, and it is nearly impossible to use up their cycle life. That could be wired at either 24 or 48 volt, although the real range of those batteries is 32/64. It might come down to which is easier/cheaper. Our boiler is 120v, uses very little power. No 240 loads are critical.
My other panels are all set up to feed off a new, main unit being installed now with a new underground service. I will de-rate each of those panels and put a disconnect breaker in the new main, and run them all as sub-panels. Our house ran for years on just 80 amps, and we never tripped a circuit, even with central A/C double electric oven, and electric dryer. It just takes a bit of common sense. Now, we have mini splits, super high efficient inverter driven.
I would like to learn more about how to set up multiple battery banks, with protection on all legs, and be able to combine them on a common buss bar, if possible. I have a lot of batteries, including 7s, 8s, 12s, 14s, 16s and 20s. I might sell some of them off that were originally intended for golf cart conversions.
By the way, I enjoy reading about your experience with SMA. It is very good equipment, and what I'd like to own.
My other panels are all set up to feed off a new, main unit being installed now with a new underground service. I will de-rate each of those panels and put a disconnect breaker in the new main, and run them all as sub-panels. Our house ran for years on just 80 amps, and we never tripped a circuit, even with central A/C double electric oven, and electric dryer. It just takes a bit of common sense. Now, we have mini splits, super high efficient inverter driven.
I would like to learn more about how to set up multiple battery banks, with protection on all legs, and be able to combine them on a common buss bar, if possible. I have a lot of batteries, including 7s, 8s, 12s, 14s, 16s and 20s. I might sell some of them off that were originally intended for golf cart conversions.
By the way, I enjoy reading about your experience with SMA. It is very good equipment, and what I'd like to own.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,841
Paralleling batteries has the problem of inrush when they are connected, and bad batteries draining good at least for lead-acid.
You could build a bank with parallel strings, but switching in and out DC connections would seem to be a problem.
SMA's 400V Sunny Boy Storage has three separate DC connections for three batteries. It appears to be a modified version of their PV inverter with 3 PV inputs. The inverter draws power from the three ports which can be at different voltages.
Some inverters can have their AC outputs paralleled. Most expect to share a single battery bank, like my Sunny Island where the master tells the slaves how to charge. Multiple "clusters" of three Sunny Island for 3-phase, each with its own bank, can connect as multi-cluster for village power (but won't backfeed the grid.) I've thought about additional batteries connected to Sunny Boy AC coupled inverters (discharge would be controlled by frequency shift), would need charging system similarly controlled. I've wondered if Sunny Boy Storage could work on a Sunny Island system, but not clear what all it does.
Enphase is a box with battery and multiple microinverters inside, so if multiple boxes are paralleled those have separate batteries. Maybe you can find small individual inverters that can parallel output and separate batteries.
You could build a bank with parallel strings, but switching in and out DC connections would seem to be a problem.
SMA's 400V Sunny Boy Storage has three separate DC connections for three batteries. It appears to be a modified version of their PV inverter with 3 PV inputs. The inverter draws power from the three ports which can be at different voltages.
Some inverters can have their AC outputs paralleled. Most expect to share a single battery bank, like my Sunny Island where the master tells the slaves how to charge. Multiple "clusters" of three Sunny Island for 3-phase, each with its own bank, can connect as multi-cluster for village power (but won't backfeed the grid.) I've thought about additional batteries connected to Sunny Boy AC coupled inverters (discharge would be controlled by frequency shift), would need charging system similarly controlled. I've wondered if Sunny Boy Storage could work on a Sunny Island system, but not clear what all it does.
Enphase is a box with battery and multiple microinverters inside, so if multiple boxes are paralleled those have separate batteries. Maybe you can find small individual inverters that can parallel output and separate batteries.
"SMA's 400V Sunny Boy Storage has three separate DC connections for three batteries. It appears to be a modified version of their PV inverter with 3 PV inputs. The inverter draws power from the three ports which can be at different voltages."
Hedges: I cannot find information on this comment you made. That is an interesting feature, but not sure how that might play out. I've been considering the idea of going 24v rather than 48v, mostly because many of the components I'd like are not available right now for 48v systems. Some are back-ordered more than a year. Also, can the SMA SBS work with no battery hooked up? (Just curious)
It would be nice to have a definitive answer on whether or not certain BMS's would actually talk with SMA. I've read dozens of posts from people trying to make some type of BMS work on Canbus, and having nothing but problems. And that from BMS that claim to be compatible. It is not within my power or knowledge base to tackle that type of challenge, and would simply end in frustration. This comment also pertains to Victron, and other inverters. And then, there are the other issues that could crop up, like getting a system approved for installation. I've already been warned that our local Utility really looks hard at ANY battery system.
Hedges: I cannot find information on this comment you made. That is an interesting feature, but not sure how that might play out. I've been considering the idea of going 24v rather than 48v, mostly because many of the components I'd like are not available right now for 48v systems. Some are back-ordered more than a year. Also, can the SMA SBS work with no battery hooked up? (Just curious)
It would be nice to have a definitive answer on whether or not certain BMS's would actually talk with SMA. I've read dozens of posts from people trying to make some type of BMS work on Canbus, and having nothing but problems. And that from BMS that claim to be compatible. It is not within my power or knowledge base to tackle that type of challenge, and would simply end in frustration. This comment also pertains to Victron, and other inverters. And then, there are the other issues that could crop up, like getting a system approved for installation. I've already been warned that our local Utility really looks hard at ANY battery system.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,841
Sunny Boy Storage uses a 100V to 550V battery, likely not what you want.
"Battery DC Input"
"Max. DC current power input / # of inputs 10 A / 3"
That's three battery inputs.
"Max. short-circuit current per input 40 A"
Clearly not intended for direct connection to a battery. The supported batteries are in 3kWh to 30kWh range, apparently all a boost converter connected to a battery, so current limited.
"Secure Power Supply — Backup Lite"
With batteries, but no utility grid (and no PV), it can power 120V 2kW load.
Similarly, newer Sunny Boy with PV but no grid or battery can do the same.
I think they ought to make the firmware work with both battery and PV, so a single unit could be a complete system.
Batteries for Sunny Boy Storage (don't know what BMS for DIY)
Batteries for Sunny Island. This says for models that are currently sold in Europe, inconsistent with web page for US models.
(We understand REC BMS works for DIY, there may be others)
"Battery DC Input"
"Max. DC current power input / # of inputs 10 A / 3"
That's three battery inputs.
"Max. short-circuit current per input 40 A"
Clearly not intended for direct connection to a battery. The supported batteries are in 3kWh to 30kWh range, apparently all a boost converter connected to a battery, so current limited.
"Secure Power Supply — Backup Lite"
With batteries, but no utility grid (and no PV), it can power 120V 2kW load.
Similarly, newer Sunny Boy with PV but no grid or battery can do the same.
I think they ought to make the firmware work with both battery and PV, so a single unit could be a complete system.
Batteries for Sunny Boy Storage (don't know what BMS for DIY)
Batteries for Sunny Island. This says for models that are currently sold in Europe, inconsistent with web page for US models.
(We understand REC BMS works for DIY, there may be others)
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,841
"It would be nice to have a definitive answer on whether or not certain BMS's would actually talk with SMA."
What SMA inverter do you want to have talk with BMS of a DIY battery?
Sunny Island talks to REC, and forum members use them together.
Multiple batteries to one inverter, Sunny Boy Storage was one I saw that could have batteries of different voltage (SoC).
Other than that, people often parallel cells on one BMS, or parallel multiple BMS, but I don't know whether Sunny Island talks to multiple REC BMS for paralleled batteries.
With two BMS in parallel, if one ever disconnected I could imagine a problem when they reconnect after diverging in voltage and SoC.
"I've already been warned that our local Utility really looks hard at ANY battery system."
Ours (PG&E) has some rules on how much battery inverter vs. PV inverter wattage. And they only want our PV generated power stored in battery for time-shift backfeeding of the grid, not their cheap off-peak power. My battery only serves as a UPS, or supplements grid power if current draw exceeds programmed limit for grid connection.
WattAboutThat
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2021
- Messages
- 123
Back to the original topic: I would like to purchase a Deye manufactured or oem rebranded deye such as Sunsynk type inverter in the United States. I prefer not to buy Sol-Ark.
Are there any sources in the Unites States that offer Deye or OEM Deye inverters other than Sol- Ark? if yes please reply with links
thank you
Are there any sources in the Unites States that offer Deye or OEM Deye inverters other than Sol- Ark? if yes please reply with links
thank you
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
short and simple : no
you may be avle to gray import for the carabieen , or South america, but that is it
