Dodgy wiring job

[FJimmy]

Hi guys,
Recently I posted a thread trying to figure out some issues I've been having with my solar set up. The thread can be found here.

I decided to inspect the panels and their connection, and I have to say I'm not particularly impressed. I'm seeking feedback from the community as to what my next moves should be.

It looks like they've used a blow torch to solder the panels in series, then torched some shrink wrap around it. Wrapped it up in electrical tape for good measure. My first thought is that the charring on the shrink wrap and able ends is due to excessive external heat, rather than overheating due to a short, but its hard to say.

I think we can safely say that this is not the proper way to connect solar cables, nor is it a technique I should be charged ~$450USD (inc cables and fusing (lol)) for.
Is this explicitly the cause of my issues? Not sure.
Would rewiring the panels with Y connectors fix the issue? Probably.
Did they complete the job they were assigned? Yes.
Is this quality workmanship? No.
Negligent? ?

The job was done at a shop some 16hrs away from my current location, so I won't be asking them to redo it. Should I request a refund for the installation fee? Fee and panels? High Court of Australia?

 

[Kenny_]

WTF!!!

 

[Steve_S]

Have to say it HOLY KRAP ! You are lucky you did not get burnt. I would certainly take as many photo's like you have as that is evidence. No clue about the Australian court system but if there is a Small Claims court or similar that may be an option. You can go back and try to get a refund, they are not qualified to touch any tool obviously. If you have FacePox etc Social Media Exposure can seriously slap down a business, especially for something like this mess. Better Business Bureau up here is "so so" but not usually helpful, probably the same in OZ I'd imagine.

This can't stay that way in any case, it is likely fixable but time & patience will win that battle.
You will have to string all new wire from the Solar Panel MC4 Connectors down to your fuse/breaker box. All of that bodged junk is toss away scrap. You can get in-line solar fuses but those have their quirks and don't belong on anything mobile, using a small breaker box with DC Breakers is a cleaner & more reliable solution.

 

[peakbagger]

In addtion to the non code wiring issue, that roof transition is going to leak in a few years. Goop is only a short term solution and eventually it fails.

There is roof interface called a Soladeck, it is flashed into the roof and has space to combine a couple of panels (or strings) with space for fusing. In the US the wiring from the Soladeck needs to be in metal either rigid or flexible down to the inverter but regular non PV rated wiring can be used.

 

[ledow]

It looks like they've used a blow torch to solder the panels in series, then torched some shrink wrap around it. Wrapped it up in electrical tape for good measure. My first thought is that the charring on the shrink wrap and able ends is due to excessive external heat, rather than overheating due to a short, but its hard to say.

It looks like a teenage hobbyist in his bedroom did a rush-job of something he intended to throw away.

I mean, I doubt it impacts the connectivity, etc. much but it's a job no paid professional should ever be doing, even somewhere where they think nobody would ever see it.

I think we can safely say that this is not the proper way to connect solar cables, nor is it a technique I should be charged ~$450USD (inc cables and fusing (lol)) for.
Is this explicitly the cause of my issues? Not sure.
Would rewiring the panels with Y connectors fix the issue? Probably.
Did they complete the job they were assigned? Yes.
Is this quality workmanship? No.
Negligent? ?

The job was done at a shop some 16hrs away from my current location, so I won't be asking them to redo it. Should I request a refund for the installation fee? Fee and panels? High Court of Australia?

Cause of issues? Probably not yet.
Rewiring? I'd do it anyway rather than have that on my roof.
Completed job? Sort-of.
Quality workmanship? Far from it.
Negligent? Depends on your local electrical code, I imagine.
Request a refund? Yeah, I'd try. At least a discount. Any vaguely reputable company you could do it just by sending a snotty email with photos and they should give you a discount at least. If you're not happy, social-media it under their company accounts.
Panels refund? Probably not.
Legal action? Really not worth the expense and hassle so long as your panels work (which is presumably the bulk of the expense).

Finding another company to fix that will also be trouble as they'll likely want to rip that cabling out and redo it all.

To be honest, on an RV? I'd just do it myself at that point, yet retain the invoices to the original install for if anyone ever asks.

Not sure what the local law is but low-voltage DC wiring on a mobile vehicle and it's done that badly? It's going to move and break.

I'm not even sure solder or tape should be involved at any point, to be honest. The only time I solder is that I might wrap the bare connectors in solder before inserting into a copper battery connector, then crimping it, and put heatshrinking around it (which then melts the solder inside the connector that's wrapped around the bare copper strands).

Even that, I'm not sure if it's going to cause problems further down the line but it was my amateur "belt-and-braces" method on a severely over-specced cable on a small amateur setup.

 

[timselectric]

That's disappointing.

 

[toms]

Unfortunately that is all too common of the workmanship from caravan shops. If the PV OCV is under ELV (120V or 60V depends on who you speak to), it is not covered by the same regulations as higher voltage installs.

It is crappy workmanship, but I think your chances of any kind of refund are non-existent.

 

[ricardocello]

Electrical equipment and cabling must be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner [NEC 110.12].
Later version: Electrical equipment shall be installed in a professional and skillful manner.

Of all of the subjective guidance in the NEC, this is the most important.
Voltage level is not a precondition.

 

[toms]

Electrical equipment and cabling must be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner [NEC 110.12].
Later version: Electrical equipment shall be installed in a professional and skillful manner.

Of all of the subjective guidance in the NEC, this is the most important.
Voltage level is not a precondition.

NEC is not relevant in this case.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Hi guys,
Recently I posted a thread trying to figure out some issues I've been having with my solar set up. The thread can be found here.

I decided to inspect the panels and their connection, and I have to say I'm not particularly impressed. I'm seeking feedback from the community as to what my next moves should be.

View attachment 175332View attachment 175333View attachment 175334

It looks like they've used a blow torch to solder the panels in series, then torched some shrink wrap around it. Wrapped it up in electrical tape for good measure. My first thought is that the charring on the shrink wrap and able ends is due to excessive external heat, rather than overheating due to a short, but its hard to say.

I think we can safely say that this is not the proper way to connect solar cables, nor is it a technique I should be charged ~$450USD (inc cables and fusing (lol)) for.
Is this explicitly the cause of my issues? Not sure.
Would rewiring the panels with Y connectors fix the issue? Probably.
Did they complete the job they were assigned? Yes.
Is this quality workmanship? No.
Negligent? ?

The job was done at a shop some 16hrs away from my current location, so I won't be asking them to redo it. Should I request a refund for the installation fee? Fee and panels? High Court of Australia?

That’s is disappointing for sure.

 

[ricardocello]

NEC is not relevant in this case.

right. perhaps

AS/NZS 5033:2021​

 

[Balrog006]

Electrical equipment and cabling must be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner [NEC 110.12].
Later version: Electrical equipment shall be installed in a professional and skillful manner.

Of all of the subjective guidance in the NEC, this is the most important.
Voltage level is not a precondition.

OP is Down under, I’m sure they have their own version of the electrical code, but it’s not the NEC nor do I know what it consists of or how it applies to this situation.

 

[hwy17]

Australia is such an interesting electrical environment. On one hand I hear you have rules that homeowners can't do their own electrical work. But on the other hand the pros there are so affordable.

I can't get an electrician to fart over here for $450.

I guess if electrical work was affordable I wouldn't mind if I couldn't do it myself. It's only really a hobby of mine because it has to be.

 

[toms]

Australia is such an interesting electrical environment. On one hand I hear you have rules that homeowners can't do their own electrical work. But on the other hand the pros there are so affordable.

I can't get an electrician to fart over here for $450.

I guess if electrical work was affordable I wouldn't mind if I couldn't do it myself. It's only really a hobby of mine because it has to be.

Homeowners can do limited electrical work, the OP’s situation most likely falls under that scenario.

right. perhaps

AS/NZS 5033:2021​

Also not relevant here.

I guess if you keep guessing long enough you might come up with some useful advice.

 

[FJimmy]

Thanks every one for your replies. You assured me that I was right to be concerned about the quality of the installation. I wrote the following email to the company that installed the installation:

Hi x,
I inspected the cables between the solar panels and the solar charge controller and I must express my grave concerns regarding the quality and safety of the installation.

Firstly, the panel cables have been soldered together, where branch connectors should have been used. Secondly, a blow torch was used to solder the cables and apply shrink wrap. This is evident by scorching of the cable ends and wrap. Thirdly, the invoice included a charge for fusing, yet I failed to see any fuses integrated into the setup. Finally, electrical tape was to insulate the shrink wrap.

Not only is this an evident deviation from standard installation practices, but it also poses serious safety risks. I believe these lapses in the installation process are directly correlated to the challenges I’ve been encountering in getting the solar system to function properly.

It's essential for both the reputation of your company and the safety of your customers that installation services are executed with the utmost precision and adherence to industry standards. I genuinely hope that my experience is an isolated incident and that necessary steps are taken to prevent such occurrences in the future.

Considering the gravity of the situation and the potential hazard it presents, I am compelled to have the solar panels rewired to ensure the safety of my caravan and its occupants. With this in mind, I kindly request a refund of $698.25 for the installation fee charged.

I look forward to hearing from you promptly regarding this matter. Please contact me at x to discuss the refund process or address any further concerns.


To which they responded:

Hi y,
After reviewing your solar installation with my team. Everything was done in a correct and safe manner.

The scope of the job that you brought us was to install 2 x 200w solar panels to your roof. We have then connected the solar cables to the pre-existing cables which were rated to carry the current. We do not use mc4 or other kinds of plugs as these corrode with moisture and do not handle the vibrations. These types of connectors are consistent with Residential solar applications. Not marine or automotive. As for the Fusing, The fusing is put between the Solar controller and the battery. As you supplied and installed your own solar Regulator. Also, not a brand that we indorse.

The description on the invoice is a computer-generated description as the charge is a set price from our system.

When the Van was dropped of there was no battery and untidy wiring . Holes in the roof and quite frankly in poor condition. Would you be able to provide me with a copy of the standard installation practices of solar panels to a caravan. I will review these and compare to our procedures.
Kind Regards,



So where to begin?
As noted by the technician, the condition of the caravan was rather poor. Holes in the roof allowed water ingress, so I removed the battery to prevent further damage to the caravan. That why I was taking the caravans for repairs in the first place.

As for the rest, can anyone point me to concrete literature or guidelines for the installation of solar panels in mobile applications? I would prefer to lean on authoritative sources.
I would like to check AS/NZS 5033:2021, however there is a ~$260 AUD access fee.

Edit: AS/NZS 3001.2:2022 Section 4 provides the installation requirements for recreational and non-recreational vehicles. The preview can be found here.

Thankfully, this document is only $190

Kind regards

 

[toms]

You won’t find what you are looking for. ELV (less than 120V DC) is outside the scope of the standards. Pretty much like wiring a dual battery into a car - not legislated.

Incidentally, although that PV solder job was poor workmanship, they are correct in it being more reliable than an MC4 connector in that scenario.

I’ve seen hundreds of caravan systems, the “workmanship” on display here is quite typical.

Your best bet is via recommendation find someone known to produce better quality work and get them to redo the job.

You won’t get any money back from this job, you’re just wasting your time.

 

[Bluedog225]

Agree with Toms. On this one, I’d move on. The rough shape prior to the job is going to be an ongoing defense.