Duke Energy SC - New rates for grid tied export

[Supervstech]

A solar heat pump would count as an hvac unit and require a permit here in Texas, from the city.. boy howdy. You need a permit to replace a hot water heater also, what's up with that? Not to install one, but to replace one you already have.

Here it is the opposite, need permit to install one, but replacing without changing fuel no permit required.

 

[Zwy]

Rural life is calling.

I used to live in a community where I, literally, had to apply for permission (HOA) to repaint my door (the same color!!). Now I can build a barn bigger than many houses without a single permit? Freedom is a wonderful taste, especially when you've spent most of your life (as I had before we moved here) in an area where you have so litle of it.

No zoning here, no building permits either unless in a town but as long as you don't encroach on next door neighbor, meet setback requirements so people can around a corner, it is pretty much anything goes.

Electrical inspections here due to state law. Most people ignore it.

I won't live in a place where I'm not free. If the county decides to consider zoning again, I'll run for office and make certain it gets killed. A few thousand people showed up at supervisor meetings/hearings the last time it was brought up. It did not pass.

 

[Sanwizard]

No zoning here, no building permits either unless in a town but as long as you don't encroach on next door neighbor, meet setback requirements so people can around a corner, it is pretty much anything goes.

Electrical inspections here due to state law. Most people ignore it.

I won't live in a place where I'm not free. If the county decides to consider zoning again, I'll run for office and make certain it gets killed. A few thousand people showed up at supervisor meetings/hearings the last time it was brought up. It did not pass.

I always think of Mel Gibson yelling FREEDOM! In Braveheart. My favorite state motto is "Live Free or Die", and New Hampshire is one of the only states in the Northeast US that is still Republican.

 

[cs1234]

Here it is the opposite, need permit to install one, but replacing without changing fuel no permit required.

My wording was not precise enough, you require a permit to both install and replace one.

 

[cs1234]

I always think of Mel Gibson yelling FREEDOM! In Braveheart. My favorite state motto is "Live Free or Die", and New Hampshire is one of the only states in the Northeast US that is still Republican.

My state, county and city are all Republican, and have been for like the last 30+ years. Hasn't changed anything for the better in regards to permits and such.

Not saying it couldn't be worse if they were all Democrat controlled.. can't say, as they haven't been for 30+ years.

 

[Sanwizard]

My state, county and city are all Republican, and have been for like the last 30+ years. Hasn't changed anything for the better in regards to permits and such.

Not saying it couldn't be worse if they were all Democrat controlled.. can't say, as they haven't been for 30+ years.

I moved from NY to South Carolina. The difference in freedoms are un-believable.

 

[Overtaxed]

I moved from NY to South Carolina. The difference in freedoms are un-believable.

NJ to SC here. And yes, it's like living in a different world. No permits required to put up a huge barn? Nope, it's your land son, we're not gonna tell you want to do with it.

 

[Sanwizard]

NJ to SC here. And yes, it's like living in a different world. No permits required to put up a huge barn? Nope, it's your land son, we're not gonna tell you want to do with it.

Right!? I live in a black neighborhood, and the folks here are just so wonderful! We can do rifle practice off the front porch, no worries about getting robbed, the only bad traffic is on Sunday leaving Church, taxes are 500% less than I was paying in NY, great BBQ, and I get 10 months of outdoor activity, and the two hot months are in the pool. Solar handles the AC electric bill in the summer, and no need to clean off snow.

I worked in Manhattan most of my life, and experienced the differences of Democrat rule and how it changed almost overnight into disney land under Rudy.

Night and day difference, even in NY, just by changing the Mayor and Governor. (I am a registered democrat, that party is now the socialist party. Never again).

Loving it here in South Carolina, but too many folks are moving here as they flee the blue states. I hope the character of the area is kept.

 

[cs1234]

We must have a different kind of Republican here in Texas, because it's nothing like the paradise you describe in SC.

I honestly feel it's a city vs country thing, and not a Republican vs Democrat thing. If you're near a city or in a heavily populated state, you're screwed regardless of who is in charge.

 

[Prefersdirt]

That's exactly my question. Can I just "pretend" I don't have solar and reduce my usage (on my current rate schedule) with no export? Of course, I'd have times when my panels would be idle, but I could find something to do with that power (I have 1000 A/hrs/12V in my RV that's tied in, sure I could do a little Node Red work and kick off charging the battery at the "right" time).

I am doing this myself. Don't care about selling back - I don't want their comments.

 

[Hedges]

This is all about my 4-500/mo electric bill and trying to pare that back a bit.

How about showing a Pareto diagram of what loads that goes to. Summer and Winter.

Knocking down the big ones with either efficiency or PV power might be the way to go.
A/C and pool pumping are what should be easiest to power from the sun.

 

[cs1234]

I am doing this myself. Don't care about selling back - I don't want their comments.

The only issue is that any system where you are injecting AC into your grid tied setup with export limiting has the potential to send small amounts of power out into the utility. Personally, I think they should just have to accept spurious export and shut up, but I'm in the minority on that one.

 

[Sanwizard]

We must have a different kind of Republican here in Texas, because it's nothing like the paradise you describe in SC.

I honestly feel it's a city vs country thing, and not a Republican vs Democrat thing. If you're near a city or in a heavily populated state, you're screwed regardless of who is in charge.

Most of the cities in every state are run by democrats. I know Houston is, but the Dallas mayor just switched parties from Democrat to Repubican over the migrant crisis.
In fact, Charleston was democrat run since the late 1800's. It just went Republican this year for the first time. The difference is the democrats around here are still God fearing moral people, and totally different from the large city corrupt aholes.

 

[cs1234]

Most of the cities in every state are run by democrats. I know Houston is, but the Dallas mayor just switched parties from Democrat to Repubican over the migrant crisis.
In fact, Charleston was democrat run since the late 1800's. It just went Republican this year for the first time. The difference is the democrats around here are still God fearing moral people, and totally different from the large city corrupt aholes.

My "city" and "county" are both controlled by Republicans, and have been for their entire history essentially. When it comes to permits and other invasions of privacy and land ownership, they don't really differ in any way from the bigger city they neighbor. There is no rule that the suburbs of cities like Austin, Dallas, Houston, etc.. have to have nearly the exact same rules as their "hub" city when it comes to permits and other such things. We can blame it on the larger city that is run by Democrats, but that seems to be passing the buck in this situation.

It's a too many bu**holes per square inch issue. The more people, (regardless of what political affiliation they have), the less freedom you are going to have. The types of people that like getting into everyone else's business are going to show up, regardless of what letter they need to have next to their name on the ballot.

 

[Sanwizard]

My "city" and "county" are both controlled by Republicans, and have been for their entire history essentially. When it comes to permits and other invasions of privacy and land ownership, they don't really differ in any way from the bigger city they neighbor. There is no rule that the suburbs of cities like Austin, Dallas, Houston, etc.. have to have nearly the exact same rules as their "hub" city when it comes to permits and other such things. We can blame it on the larger city that is run by Democrats, but that seems to be passing the buck in this situation.

It's a too many bu**holes per square inch issue. The more people, (regardless of what political affiliation they have), the less freedom you are going to have. The types of people that like getting into everyone else's business are going to show up, regardless of what letter they need to have next to their name on the ballot.

Yup, there are corrupt power hungry individuals in every group.

 

[cs1234]

Yup, there are corrupt power hungry individuals in every group.

They are like vampires. They need a sizable population to suck off of. Too few people and they would get caught and staked.

 

[Overtaxed]

It's a too many bu**holes per square inch issue. The more people, (regardless of what political affiliation they have), the less freedom you are going to have.

Well said. It's far more a divide rural vs urban than R vs D (one does follow the other, but I think it's more driven by density than it is politics).

How about showing a Pareto diagram of what loads that goes to. Summer and Winter.

The big draw is almost all heat/cooling. I really don't have any other big consumers, my hot water is a heat pump (draws like 500W running), no pool, no huge motors. The only serious draw is the 3 3 ton compressors. Basically, the further the average temp gets from ~70 degrees, the more power we use, heating or cooling back to around 70.

The only issue is that any system where you are injecting AC into your grid tied setup with export limiting has the potential to send small amounts of power out into the utility. Personally, I think they should just have to accept spurious export and shut up, but I'm in the minority on that one.

Does a more traditional setup using a standard inverter have the same problem? Something like an EG4 18KVa that can couple directly to the infeed and outfeed (at 200A)? My thought here is that it's "inline" so it might have better control? Honestly, if you felt like going totally nuts, you could decouple entirely; put battery chargers on the incoming line from the power company and run the entire house off inverter(s) and battery/solar on the other side. Basically make it so the only thing on the grid is the battery charger, no coupling at all to the house. If you're familiar with an inline UPS (used in data centers, for example), this is how they work, there's no direct tie between the incoming power and the power going out to the servers.

 

[Hedges]

A/C is a good match to PV, unless you continue to need it late evening and night.
Zero-export GT PV (current transformers at meter) will offset consumption. Maybe panels oriented SW, to produce more in the afternoon.

For heating in winter, if you have net metering you can apply summer production. Otherwise just buy from grid.

But "My current rate is ~11c/kwh", you can't beat that with turn-key PV installation. DIY so labor is free, you can get hardware for $0.03/kWh (amortized over 20 years.)

Better insulation? Shade, maybe trees?

Your money may be better invested in something else (to earn money for your power bill and other expenses.)

 

[cs1234]

Well said. It's far more a divide rural vs urban than R vs D (one does follow the other, but I think it's more driven by density than it is politics).

Probably because a good number of Republicans are only Republicans because they are actually Fiscal Libertarians. Sort of like people that would vote Green or Social Libertarian , go Democrat by default. We need more parties, but can't have it because of how are system is currently controlled by the two parties who don't want to give up any power.

Does a more traditional setup using a standard inverter have the same problem? Something like an EG4 18KVa that can couple directly to the infeed and outfeed (at 200A)? My thought here is that it's "inline" so it might have better control? Honestly, if you felt like going totally nuts, you could decouple entirely; put battery chargers on the incoming line from the power company and run the entire house off inverter(s) and battery/solar on the other side. Basically make it so the only thing on the grid is the battery charger, no coupling at all to the house. If you're familiar with an inline UPS (used in data centers, for example), this is how they work, there's no direct tie between the incoming power and the power going out to the servers.

I believe the 18KWPV can be set to have zero possibility of any spurious export by toggling a relay of some sort so it only allows AC power in. If you set it to sync and inject AC, even with "zero export", it will still have a possibility of spurious export, much less than it did originally though when it first came out. If you did your battery charger method, that would prevent any possibility whatsoever, but is probably unnecessary with that relay toggled.

 

[Overtaxed]

Probably because a good number of Republicans are only Republicans because they are actually Fiscal Libertarians.

<Raises hand>

I believe the 18KWPV can be set to have zero possibility of any spurious export by toggling a relay of some sort so it only allows AC power in.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking/wondering if I can do. Kind of like the "Ignore AC Input" setting from Victron, disconnect the relay that bridges AC in and AC out. Does cause a slightly different problem though, I'm not sure 18kw is enough to run our house full time. 99% of the time, I'm sure it is, but if all 3 ACs are running? We might draw more than that.

On the Victron, you can make it selective; so if the load goes over X watts, it'll reconnect to the AC. Think I need to have a talk with Signature Solar about the EG4 and see what's possible inside that device. Unfortunately, sounds like the original plan is out (microinverters with a direct grid tie). And I'm not thrilled with the complexity this introduces, guess I need to do some thinking and see if I really want a hybrid system. Honestly, if I go down this route, I might actually move to TOU rates so I can load shift with batteries out of peak/super peak. The "Abusing Time of Use Rates" post from Moonlight gave me some interesting ideas!