EV versus ICE

[Bluedog225]

Does anyone know of a cost per mile driven analysis of a diy solar setup charging and EV versus an internal combustion engine?

With or without the cost if the vehicle and maintenance figured in.

Have we gotten to the point with diy that it is cheaper on a per mile basis?

Thanks!

@Will Prowse

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Lotsa unspecified variables.

ICE $/mile is extremely dependent on vehicle and fuel type.

EV $/mile is also variable.

DIY solar is rarely cheaper than off-peak grid power when you factor in $/kWh on a battery cycle life cost basis.

IMHO, the only way you could get a meaningful result is for a specific DIY system compared to that location's grid power costs and comparing exact ICE and EV models.

 

[timselectric]

If you already have solar, and are producing enough extra power. And, it's time for a new car. Then yes, it's definitely worth the investment.
If you want to buy solar and an EV right now, it's going to take many years before you see the savings.

 

[gg576]

The one thing I appreciate about my situation of having a new EV Hybrid, Heat pump (Central and Water) is that my energy costs are no longer as volatile. Nat gas and power plant electric are up 50 and 30 percent respectively compared to last year. And your return on investment time frame keeps getting moved up during this inflationary time. So you do get a theoretical pump in your bottom line even if you do not explicitly feel it.

 

[timselectric]

My next vehicle will be an EV.
By then, my solar installation will be complete.
I'm not doing solar, specifically for the EV. It's just an added bonus, in the future.

 

[MichaelK]

From a logistics standpoint, charging your car off the grid most likely is going to end up being cheaper than charging off-grid.

You're going to drive the car to work, right? Assuming you can't charge it at work's parking lot, you have to come home at the end of the day, with a depleted battery that needs charging. After 5pm when I'd guess you are arriving home, your solar resources are getting close to dropping to zero, so that means either draining a LOT of power out of very, very big, expensive house battery, or waiting till the next day to plug into your solar system.

Personally, I would not want to be draining my home battery to the extent that the car's battery gets filled. If you telework, and go into the office on alternate days, I can see you making it work. I'll assume you won't get your employer to allow you to set up a major solar system in the company parking lot.

What might work for me is to use an EV for a weekend vehicle, for driving into town for groceries/supplies. I'd say for most systems I see on this site, it would take about 2 full days at tier-1 charge levels to get a vehicle fully charged. With my system, I might be able to get ~6 hours of tier-2 charging.

 

[schmism]

You're going to drive the car to work, right? Assuming you can't charge it at work's parking lot, you have to come home at the end of the day, with a depleted battery that needs charging. After 5pm when I'd guess you are arriving home, your solar resources are getting close to dropping to zero, so that means either draining a LOT of power out of very, very big, expensive house battery, or waiting till the next day to plug into your solar system.

This is what grid tie solar is for. Push the engergy to the grid durring peak sun and peak AC requirement. Pull from the grid to charge the car at night. net zero bill for driveing. If we wind up with another pandemic were we work from home for 2 more years, and your car stays parked for 2 years, then you just end up saveing money on the electric bill.

After all the price of power is set to become a weeeeee bit more expensive.

The Midcontinent Independent System Operator (MISO) last week said clearing prices in its annual capacity auction surged to $236.66 per megawatt-day from $5 a year ago for the Midwest subregion"

 

[timselectric]

Everyone has to figure out what would work best for them. Like everything else, you have to do your homework. My next vehicle purchase will be for personal use. (Charging at home, while I'm at work)
My next work truck, will deploy its own solar. And charge, while it sits on the jobsite.

 

[time2roll]

Have we gotten to the point with diy that it is cheaper on a per mile basis?

Happened at least ten years ago. Most are a bit late to the party. Value has only improved.

 

[timselectric]

The last new vehicle I purchased was in 2001.
It's not worn out, yet.
Give me time, I'll get there. lol

 

[Delmar]

My personal preference would be an ICE hybrid which can act as a silent backup generator in the event of an extended grid outage. In my case a hurricane where it will be cloudy thus rendering my panels as useless. The ICE can recharge the battery pack for efficient and long-term operation. Run the high-voltage DC through a charge controller to your powerwall.

 

[memilanuk]

This is what grid tie solar is for. Push the engergy to the grid durring peak sun and peak AC requirement. Pull from the grid to charge the car at night.

I'll preface this by saying I have zero experience with grid-tie solar, or how the payment/billing schema looks for such a setup.

But...

In a previous job, as a substation technician for an electrical utility, one of the things I got a first-hand look at was how the power demands shifted from one area to another depending on the time of day.

As an example... there would usually be a small peak in the residential areas around 0700-0900, as people woke up, fired up their coffee pots, toasters, microwaves and such. Then you'd see that die off, and a corresponding peak from 0800-1000 in the business areas as people reported to work, turned on the lights, fired up the office equipment, etc. etc. Peak draw overall was usually early afternoon as A/C started to kick in. But you'd see the demand drop off in the business districts as people began heading home, and then peak again in the 'burbs as those people got to their houses, fired up the TV and the oven and started fixing dinner, etc.

Overall a very simple version of what was going on, and on a fairly small scale, but it does illustrate a point - peak demand, especially in residential areas, isn't necessarily during peak sunlight hours. How or if that plays into the pricing schema for grid-tie solar, dunno. Food for thought, though.

 

[acdoctor]

The last time gas got to 4 dollars a gallon in central US we bought a Ford plug in hybrid EV that we charged from the grid. After a lot of real world measurements I concluded that gasoline at $2.55 per gallon was the balance point for cost per mile driving it as a hybrid versus straight EV. My electricity cost was straight 10 cent per kw.
This doesn’t really answer question about solar but may be useful.

 

[soylentgreen]

My thinking:

* a good EV can get up to 5 miles / kWh, or 50 miles per 10 kWh.
* a good ICE (such as a Prius, etc.) can get up to 50 mpg.

To a very rough approximation, the break-even point is when 10 kWh of electricity costs the same as one gallon of gasoline.

Here in San Diego, we are blessed with high prices on both: 10 kWh is about $3.50, and gasoline is just under $6/gallon. The EV clearly wins.

This ignores purchase price, subsidies, maintenance costs, externalities (global warming, war...)

 

[AntronX]

I drive 2011 Nissan Leaf. It goes 3.6mi on 1kWh AC electricity. That is 3.6 cents per mile at my grid power cost. At 36 mpg gasoline would have to cost $1.30 per gallon to equal that. Battery has lasted 75K miles and is down to 70% capacity. I guess i can get it to 100K mi before replacement. At the time when it was new it cost $6000. So that's additional 6 cents per mile cost to operate which becomes 9.6 cents total with electricity cost. That is equivalent to gasoline cost of $3.46 per gallon with battery wear included. Was it worth it? Yes, it's more fun and comfort driving electric car.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I drive 2011 Nissan Leaf. It goes 3.6mi on 1kWh AC electricity. That is 3.6 cents per mile at my grid power cost. At 36 mpg gasoline would have to cost $1.30 per gallon to equal that. Battery has lasted 75K miles and is down to 70% capacity. I guess i can get it to 100K mi before replacement. At the time when it was new it cost $6000. So that's additional 6 cents per mile cost to operate which becomes 9.6 cents total with electricity cost. That is equivalent to gasoline cost of $3.46 per gallon with battery wear included. Was it worth it? Yes, it's more fun and comfort driving electric car.

Phoenix chewed those up and spit them out. Most owners saw dramatic range loss after just the first year. Nissan had to replace a LOT of batteries due to their poorly designed cooling system.

 

[Ampster]

Nissan had to replace a LOT of batteries due to their poorly designed cooling system.

Poorly designed? The reality is there was no cooling system. One might call it air cooled except the pack was enclosed inside a steel tub with no air circulation.

 

[Ampster]

Does anyone know of a cost per mile driven analysis of a diy solar setup charging and EV versus an internal combustion engine?

My Model 3 Tesla gets four miles per kWh. My off peak rate is $0.22 per kWh so that is just over $0.05 per mile. However I often charge from solar during the day and that cost is less than $0.10 per kWh which equates to $0.025 per mile. That may be closer to my actual cost because the off peak charging is offset by the kWhs that I generate at peak and at the end of the year all I pay is about $160 which is minimums and some Non Bypassable charges. My location is Northern California. We use that car for road trips and the costs vary between $0.20-35 per kWh.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Poorly designed? The reality is there was no cooling system. One might call it air cooled except the pack was enclosed inside a steel tub with no air circulation.

Sometimes I try to be nice.

 

[Any name you wish]

Phoenix chewed those up and spit them out. Most owners saw dramatic range loss after just the first year. Nissan had to replace a LOT of batteries due to their poorly designed cooling system.

Can attest to that poor design. Moved to a Bolt that seems to handle the heat better with more range. RIP 2013 Leaf SV.