Export Limit with Growatt inverters?

[fafrd]

Critical loads (powered by inverter AC output not inverter AC input) are only powered from the AC output when the grid is down. When the grid is up I’d assume the critical loads panel is powered by the main panel not the inverters AC output. When the grids up the main panel gets power from the inverters AC input not the inverters AC output. So the loads in the main panel and the loads in the critical panel are both using the grids transformer (and possibly the auto transformer) to handle the unbalanced legs when the grid is present so I’d assume the grids transformer alone can handle that.

Oh, it’s not a question of the grid’s transformer not being able to ‘handle’ any imbalance or going out of whack in any way.

The point is that the Autotransformer and the grid transformer are in parallel and any imbalance in house load will be seen by the Autotransformer before it is seen by the grid transformer )which is at the other end of much longer wires).

So whatever maximum capacity can be handled by the Autotransformer (presumably protected by a breaker), the whole-house imbalance may be enough to trip the breaker (at which point all of the imbalance will go on to the grid transformer, no biggie).

I’m guessing that ‘zero export’ solutions that can result in export on one leg balanced by import on the other leg will never be endorsed / approved by the Powers That Be.

Do that may explain why Growatt has seemingly pulled back on the SPH-Series inverters got the US market.

 

[Jim Lee]

"The Growatt SPF 5000W ES is the all-in-one inverter/charger you need to take control of your energy bill. The 5000ES can work without batteries and even pair with the Utility if solar is not enough to power a load. Can Stack 6 Units! (30kW of Capacity)
This backup power, self consumption, export blocking inverter is great for any off grid application. With a max PV Input of 450Vdc and 6000W, this 25lb inverter packs a MASSIVE punch." This is a Quote from their advertised page. To be precise the load I'm talking about is the only load panel on my house right now. Not one that is created in the future. What do they (signature Solar) mean when they say you can pair with the utility if solar is not enough to power a load. It seems to me that if I'm powering my house (The Load) with PV and I need more amps than the inverter will pull from the battery until it can't get enough from the battery then it will "PAIR" with the utility to power my house. The system I'm about to buy is 30-395 watt panels, 3 SPF 5000 ES Growatt off grid converters with a 5kw midpoint transformer and 6- 48v 100 AH LiFe batteries. My question is how do I connect the PV power to the house and still PAIR with the grid if the PV or batteries cant handle a serge or the batteries are low or down. If I'm paired with the grid what keeps the PV or battery from back feeding the grid. I understand how my ATS keeps my generator separate from the grid, but they NEVER pair. ?????

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Oh, it’s not a question of the grid’s transformer not being able to ‘handle’ any imbalance or going out of whack in any way.

The point is that the Autotransformer and the grid transformer are in parallel and any imbalance in house load will be seen by the Autotransformer before it is seen by the grid transformer )which is at the other end of much longer wires).

So whatever maximum capacity can be handled by the Autotransformer (presumably protected by a breaker), the whole-house imbalance may be enough to trip the breaker (at which point all of the imbalance will go on to the grid transformer, no biggie).

I’m guessing that ‘zero export’ solutions that can result in export on one leg balanced by import on the other leg will never be endorsed / approved by the Powers That Be.

Do that may explain why Growatt has seemingly pulled back on the SPH-Series inverters got the US market.

I’m thinking the auto transformer should be wired into only the critical loads panel. When the grids down, the inverters AC output should go thru the auto transformer.

 

[fafrd]

I’m thinking the auto transformer should be wired into only the critical loads panel. When the grids down, the inverters AC output should go thru the auto transformer.

Look at the wiring diagram - the Autotransformer is in parallel with the EPS Critical Loads.

Whatever powers the critical loads is also feeding the Autotransformer…

 

[Capt Bill]

Also found this installation manual which lists the full set of Growatt inverters supporting this zero-export capability: https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/growatt-2500-6000tl-xe-export-limitation.pdf

I would love to hear from someone in this forum who has sucessfully hooked up the Growatt MIN 2.5-6k TL-X grid tie inverter to usa 240vac split phase standards . I originally lost interest in those GroWatt Grid Ties when I read the spec sheet saying; 230vac (180-280v) 50/60Hz "single phase" ... for AC Output. At that time, that killed my interest ... until I saw signaturesolar on youtube explaining how that can work on usa split phase set up: Growatt 5kW ES + Mid-Point Transformer Explained! 120V/240V - HD

... & the Power Limiter Option has perked up my interest. I will come back and study this thread for discussions about grounding etc.

 

[fafrd]

I would love to hear from someone in this forum who has sucessfully hooked up the Growatt MIN 2.5-6k TL-X grid tie inverter to usa 240vac split phase standards . I originally lost interest in those GroWatt Grid Ties when I read the spec sheet saying; 230vac (180-280v) 50/60Hz "single phase" ... for AC Output. At that time, that killed my interest ... until I saw signaturesolar on youtube explaining how that can work on usa split phase set up: Growatt 5kW ES + Mid-Point Transformer Explained! 120V/240V - HD

... & the Power Limiter Option has perked up my interest. I will come back and study this thread for discussions about grounding etc.

If you only care about powering loads without export while the sun is shining, that set-up will work.

But since the Growatt MIN-series inverters can only be powered by solar energy and not powered by a battery, they are not going to suitable for offsetting consumption from battery power after the sun has gone down..

 

[fafrd]

Just ran into this: https://www.simplesolarix.com/product/sr-series-hybrid-off-grid-and-on-grid-inverter-with-ct-sensor/

It claims to support ‘zero export to CT sensor’ functionality, so the most important feature of Solark as far supporting self-consumption through the AC input.

Need to find cost as well as who manufactures it…

 

[fafrd]

Just ran into this: https://www.simplesolarix.com/product/sr-series-hybrid-off-grid-and-on-grid-inverter-with-ct-sensor/

It claims to support ‘zero export to CT sensor’ functionality, so the most important feature of Solark as far supporting self-consumption through the AC input.

Need to find cost as well as who manufactures it…

They also have this ‘low voltage’ hybrid that also appears to support zero-export-to-CT-sensor’: https://www.simplesolarix.com/produ...n-off-grid-solar-inverter-with-long-warranty/

This is another Chinese ‘company’ that appears to have just materialized.

At least this low-voltage hybrid inverter appears to be a rebadged versions of the new Pro lineup of hybrid inverters being manufactured by Huayu: https://www.huayu-energy.com/cpxq?product_id=504

These ‘low-voltage’ inverters from Huayu and Simple Solarix are single-phase 230/240VAC (so they will need an Autotransformer to supply split-phase backup power), while this higher-power ‘NA’ Hyayu hybrid model supports split-phase output: https://www.huayu-energy.com/cpxq?product_id=54

 

[fafrd]

One of the only things up and running on Huayu’s website is their catalog: https://hkw1f1f74-pic47.websiteonline.cn/upload/HuayuHybridInverterCatalogue.pdf

 

[cfreitas]

I have a Growatt SPH 3000 and I'm having trouble to configure the zero export functionality, since I can not run a cable from the meter to the inverter. Does anyone know a way of doing it using wireless?

 

[nelsonjrgomes]

There is supposedly a wireless solution but I believe that there is currently some kind of problem with SPH firmware that doesn't allow it - I've read it from the installer of my inverter that it used to work, but recently has stopped. Growatt is supposedly trying to solve that problem, but I have no details.

 

[fafrd]

I have a Growatt SPH 3000 and I'm having trouble to configure the zero export functionality, since I can not run a cable from the meter to the inverter. Does anyone know a way of doing it using wireless?

Can I ask where you purchased your SPH 3000 and how much you paid?

Will be interested to see if you find a solution - how far is the inverter from where you want to position the CT sensor?

 

[cfreitas]

The inverter cost was about 1270€ + 23% (VAT-sales tax).

I don't think the distance is the main problem, in my case. I've the main electric board on the ground floor and the inverter on the 2nd floor, but no decent way to run cables between them.

 

[fafrd]

The inverter cost was about 1270€ + 23% (VAT-sales tax).

I don't think the distance is the main problem, in my case. I've the main electric board on the ground floor and the inverter on the 2nd floor, but no decent way to run cables between them.

And the unit comes with a direct-connect (analog) CT sensor or is the CT sensor wired to a small communication box which is wired to the inverter?

 

[nelsonjrgomes]

And the unit comes with a direct-connect (analog) CT sensor or is the CT sensor wired to a small communication box which is wired to the inverter?

This is the CT sensor that comes with SPH inverter.

 

[fafrd]

This is the CT sensor that comes with SPH inverter.

Looks like direct-connect (Ethernet or phone-Jack-style connector?).

You can attempt to contact Elgris (since they claim to be compatible with Growatt): http://www.elgrispower.com/zero-export-solar-controller/

 

[bedpan]

I got the following Pricing in Canadian
GRO-3800TL-XH(3.8kW, 240VAC, stackable to 6x)-$1106
GRO-6000TL-XH (6kW, 240VAC, Stackable to 6x + WiFi module + Tigo transmitter)-$1526.
GRO-10000TL-XH (10kW, 240VAC, stackable to 6x + WiFi module)-$1855.
GRO-ARO 9.9 (9.9KWK, 360VDC battery for XH)-$9108.
SPH/XH ATS 5000T (25A, up to 5kW secondary circuit)-$674
SPH/XH ATS 11400T ( 50A, up to 5kW secondary circuit)-$897
SPH/XH ATS SYN 200TL (200A, up to 10kW secondary w/ smart meter)- $1947.
Smart Electricity Meter SM-US-20- $267

They are from https://microgreen.ca/growatt-residential/inverters-overview

So for me.. Looking at the 10000TL-XH
I would also need an ATS, so maybe the SPH/XH ATS 11400T. Not sure the difference between the the 11400T and 5000T as they both say up to 5kW Secondary circuit.

If I get my permit from my hydro company I might skit the Smart Meter. I am not sure what it gives you if your able to export to grid.

I found this diagram helpful for me to wrap my brain around the wiring:




I took this from Growatts installation guide found here: https://www.growatt-america.com/show-9-633.html
page 29

I need to read more about the ATS and the batteries they support.

 

[fafrd]

Wrong thread.

This thread is about Growatt inverters supporting zero-export-to-CT-sensor capability (of which only the SPH model qualifies, from what I’ve understood).

 

[bedpan]

Wrong thread.

This thread is about Growatt inverters supporting zero-export-to-CT-sensor capability (of which only the SPH model qualifies, from what I’ve understood).

I maybe wrong... These support the CT Clamp option (Smart Electricity Meter SM-US-20) and have export power limitations in the menu.
I have not found much on it yet and still making my way through some of the documentation. If you grab part 3 of the user manual https://www.growatt-america.com/show-9-633.html
Goto page 10



Not positive but these I believe will do what you want.

 

[bedpan]

Wrong thread.

This thread is about Growatt inverters supporting zero-export-to-CT-sensor capability (of which only the SPH model qualifies, from what I’ve understood).

Growatt

This helps to



To add they appear to be UL listed and have some CSA (for us Canadians) certs as well.

 

[fafrd]

Growatt

This helps to

View attachment 74034

To add they appear to be UL listed and have some CSA (for us Canadians) certs as well.

I admit that looks promising.

But that is a single-phase 240V model, correct?

I have not been able to find any manual for the MIN XH-US (240V/120V split-phase) model…

In any case, welcome to the thread !

 

[bedpan]

I admit that looks promising.

But that is a single-phase 240V model, correct?

I have not been able to find any manual for the MIN XH-US (240V/120V split-phase) model…

In any case, welcome to the thread !

The ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) has a Auto Transformer in it. This provides the split phase when the grid is down.

Thanks for having me ;-)

 

[bedpan]

Adding on.

https://microgreen.ca/downloads-growatt/ATS-2021-apr.pdf

and

https://microgreen.ca/downloads-growatt/ATS-SYN-200TL-XH-US.pdf

have a little detail on a couple supported ATS's for these inverters.

The first one
·ATS-US comes with built-in transformer
·ATS 5000T -US has a maximum sum of L1-N and L2-N simultaneous output is 5000VA
ATS 11400T -US has a maximum sum of L1-N and L2-N simultaneous output is 11400VA
·Maximum continuous power is 5.0kw for energy storage

One asterisk at the bottom - the power difference between the two split phases can not exceed 1.5kW.

 

[fafrd]

The ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) has a Auto Transformer in it. This provides the split phase when the grid is down.

Thanks for having me ;-)

If you’ve got a link to a diagram or the manual, I’m interested.

These min-tl-xh inverters are string inverters, not hybrid inverters (no battery input).

I probably should have made the title of the thread more clear because it is hybrid Growatt inverters supporting zero export that was the intended subject.

These min-tl-xh inverters can limit export, but only while the sun is shining.

The SPH hybrid line can limit export when powered by battery power after the sun is down (so they support time-shifting with a battery).

 

[bedpan]

They do have a battery input. Not sure if they support shifting or not. Or for that matter what types of batteries are supported.