There are wire box enclosures you can purchase for them that cover all exposed metal and compress the cables to prevent any possibility of being able to pull cable out so only the insulated cable entering from bottom is exposed but still no way to use anything metal.
Failed Inspection - need some advice and guidance for NEC 690 infractions.
- Thread starter meager
- Start date
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I think the Victron SCC lack AFCI anyway, so it’s sort of game over right there for NEC compliance.
derekja
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2021
- Messages
- 51
In regards to 3), I had to do that. Canadian code, but similar.
photos.app.goo.gl
New item by Derek Jacoby
photos.app.goo.gl
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
In NEC code, nothing new there.
In NEC code, nothing new.
In NEC code, nothing new.
I'd fail this and I'm not an inspector.
So basically you are mad because you didn't follow NEC and the inspector failed your install? The PV in metal conduit has been discussed several times in these forums. It is easily done. Have a box outside where PV enters, this can be pvc. Metal conduit is run from this box into the house. It is as simple as that.Here are the 12 items I failed on. Most of them are super easy fixes and simple oversight on my behalf. #3, #4 and #5 are fairly major.
- Back-fed inverter output breaker in AC panel, tie down required 408.36 D
- Fixed this by ordering a Homeline Back-Fed Main Breaker Barrier from Home Depot
- Green bonding screw required in inverter output panel. 250.28
- Whoops. Total rookie mistake. Fixed this by installing bonding screw that was just sitting in the panel
- PV system DC circuits that exceed 30VDC run inside a building shall be contained in a metal raceway. 690.31 D
- OMG! Seriously? I've yet to see an online video where the entirety of the PV DC circuit is encased in metal from the point of entry. Most installations are very similar to mine. I've used liquid-tight for everything and it all needs to be replaced with metal conduit...including my 1-1/2in Sched 80 entry and junction box. I've done my best to figure out an exemption for this, but I can't find one. I have to assume that others here have come across this. I still haven't figured out how / where to transition from PVC to MC. This is going to be quite a cluster indeed.
- Equipment grounding conductor shall be run with the PV source conductors and the bonding requirements of 250.97 apply with voltages over 250V, exposed non current-carrying metal parts of PV electrical equipment and enclosures shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor. 690.43
- This one has me very puzzled and I need help...please! I simply cannot figure out exactly what the infraction is. I try to get answers from the inspector, but he simply cannot / will not offer any suggestions. He basically says "refer to the NEC handbook for the code". He claims there needs to be an additional ground wire from the inverter to the common ground. The EG4 6500's only have AC-in ground and AC-out ground. I have AC-out ground going directly to the load center as illustrated in the above point to point, which ultimately goes out to earth ground just outside the shed. I know for fact that the inverter case is fully grounded. We even did a continuity test to prove it was when he came out. I even had some back and forth emails with a Signature Solar technician and he has no clue what to think of it.
- The inspector did email me back for this infraction and referred me to this posting as a reference on how to "fix" this infraction, but reading it leaves me even further in the dark.
Connecting the Inverter
iaeimagazine.org
- PV source conductors operating at voltages over 30VDC and readily accessible must be guarded. 690.31 A
- This infraction is in regards to the very small length (less than 1ft) of PV wire I have "exposed" from the top of the DC disconnect to the bottom of the inverter. I didn't know it needed to be "guarded". Apparently, this does NOT have to be metal conduit based on the very vague answer he gave me when he was on site. All of this "guarding" is going to make it difficult to rearrange stuff when I either see fit to do so...or worst case, in an emergency where I have to move stuff around for various reasons. Not cool at all!
- Show ground lugs at array are listed for PV 690.43 B
- I cannot find evidence that the ones I ordered on Amazon are listed...so I have to replace all 20 lugs with "listed" lugs. Lame!
- Show OCPD's are listed at array. 110.3
- Turns out that Amazon is not a good place to find listed DC breakers. The DC breakers I have in my point to point above (at the array) where shot down because they only meet the IEC60947-2 standard. They are NOT listed and I have to order new ones that are. That being said, I guess avoid purchasing these breakers if you plan on getting your system inspected.
- View attachment 161618
- PV source voltage and current label required at locations listed in. 690.53
- I have tons of PV stickers, I just didn't know exactly where to put them. Now I do...sort of. I get the idea behind the stickers, but I assure you I've yet to meet a fire fighter that is going to take the time to read them.
- AC output voltage and current label required. 690.54
- Same as above (#8)
- Light over AC panel required inside power shed. 110.26 D
- Although I certainly planned on adding lighting inside the shed, I didn't realize it was a requirement. I'll just add a light before next inspection.
- Supplemental grounding electrode required at power shed 690.47 (250.53 A 2)
- Once again, this is an example of my diagram passing with the inspectors blessing, but when he showed up onsite, he failed for it. I went ahead and added a supplemental rod 8 feet from the other ground rod just outside the power shed.
- Drive ground rods flush or below grade. 250.53 A 4
- Easy fix. Just hammered to flush.
The EGC run from the array to grounding system is nothing new, again discussed at length in the forums. Just last week I was involved again in another discussion where for some reason members think they know more than NEC or any electrical inspector and don't need to run the EGC from the array. How hard is it to add one wire when running wire from point A to point B?
Last edited:
Solar Guppy
Red Cobra Guppy
I would say consider yourself lucky as what was tagged is simple stuff to correct and your not getting tagged on not meeting UL9540 requirements, which would require a listed battery / inverter pairing which your system does not have. ( CO is NEC2020 ).
You are also using lots of unlisted disconnects ( PV and AC are in those low cost PVC boxes, not listed ) and your battery wiring is a hot mess, code wise speaking.
It's a big challenge to be your own system designer and shouldn't be a surprise that learning a trade your own there will be mistakes being made. You are on the right path, work with the inspectors, not against, be humble and appreciative that they are providing an education for free.
You are also using lots of unlisted disconnects ( PV and AC are in those low cost PVC boxes, not listed ) and your battery wiring is a hot mess, code wise speaking.
It's a big challenge to be your own system designer and shouldn't be a surprise that learning a trade your own there will be mistakes being made. You are on the right path, work with the inspectors, not against, be humble and appreciative that they are providing an education for free.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Those are UL listed, genuine IMO.
If it was a sticking point, then a simple metal box using the switch can be used.
He does have the wrong label on the IMO, it should be PV disconnect and no PV breaker.
@Solar Guppy , great point. I'm doing my best to work with the inspector for sure. If I don't kiss his ass this could definitely go south. I guess the moral of the story is NOT to follow the direction of the youtuber's as the holy grail. I guess I've been caught up in how easy DIY install's are and assumed it was correct. I really want all of this to be safe and correct for my family and myself. I do wish there were channels that complied with NEC code from start to finish...and discuss all the variances. I also wish the inspectors would hold a local workshop (or something like that) that would wold allow DIY'ers to ask questions and learn from. In the end, we all way safety and reliability at the forefront. None of this stuff should be left to interpretation at all...meaning no gray areas. It should be black and white and it should be financially attainable for all that are willing to take on the project. If I hired this project out, it wouldn't be a project b/c I couldn't afford it. Thanks for your feed back.
Correct. That was one of the label sticking points. I need to add a label stating the current and voltage. He definitely mentioned that. Nobody will ever read it, but it is a requirement. As mentioned, I have about 6 pages of stickers, I just didn't know exactly where to put them. Thanks for the feed back.
Hi @Zwy , I wouldn't say I'm mad, just feeling a little mislead is all. All my fault for sure. I am the one to blame for watching all of these videos and presuming is was the correct way to do things. Lesson learned!! Now I just have to pick myself up by my bootstraps, fund all the code compliant stuff, and just get it done. This isn't a hobby project. It is my sole means of power for my family out in the wilderness...where we live. Thanks for your input.
Metal raceway is what get's me confused. "Metal raceway" includes metal flex conduit, right?
I've already sent the inspector pictures of what I think needs to be replaced, but he will not respond to those emails. I think that falls into the "suggestion" category. This is absolutely like pulling teeth when trying to get information from the inspector. I don't know if they have a god complex, but it seems it would be beneficial to the homeowner (me) to just tell it like it is rather than being super vague. I just want to know what I need to do and do it safely. This NEC code stuff isn't that easy to follow. I'm a software engineer and I cannot imagine throwing "hints" of my trade to an electrician. I've asked him to share another point to point that did pass inspection, but so far it's just crickets on that. I cannot imagine why the state wouldn't just post this information as help to the DIY'er. It's not like it's proprietary information.
John Schmidt
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2020
- Messages
- 82
Looks like your inspector has some valid points. My inspector simply said "I don't know anything about solar". He just wanted a 60A breaker between the inverter and the main panel of my on-grid (SolarEdge) system.
jjww
Stuck in PG&E Land
looks like conduit missing from pv disconnect to eg4 inverter,
also what does the back side of your array look like? are conductors readily accessible and not guarded?
less than 8 ft above grade is considered readily accessible-I have heard a fence counts as making a ground mount array
not readily accessible
also what does the back side of your array look like? are conductors readily accessible and not guarded?
less than 8 ft above grade is considered readily accessible-I have heard a fence counts as making a ground mount array
not readily accessible
As far as I can tell you have to spend hundreds of dollars to actually get a copy of the NEC. Seems like this is something that should be provided for free? Unless I am totally missing where to look.
The ground array is enclosed in a barbed wired fence and he didn't have any issues at the array side of things, with the exception of the grounding lugs. Looks like I'm going to have to redo those with a "listed" product. What I have out there now is perfectly fine and would certainly stand the longevity, but it is what it is.
You can register for free access at https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70 click the free access button.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The inspector's job is to make sure you follow code, not to teach you the code or the theory behind the code. He told you where you failed. If you don't understand the mistakes and how to correct them how is he supposed to trust the rest of the install? Maybe you should hire a certified electrician to get you sorted?
He seems pretty close and is willing to make the changes.. There are plenty of people willing to help here as well. It is "brave" enough that he posted a pic of his install which most people don't do for fear of ridicule so I commend him for that.
We, as tax payers, pay for these sometimes ridiculous requirements to be conjured up by public officials, so I would think it is free. I guess I've not been paying much attention to where my google results take me, but the search results appear to be legit. The actual book itself, whether hard copy or online, would likely be terribly hard to consume anyways. I doubt the "average joe" would be able to make much sense of it anyways.
It's not in the budget. If I add another human being to the equation I can expect the cost to go up considerably. I appreciate your advice, but this is a project / journey that I will go alone on and learn along the way. Anyone can do this...it just takes a few licks and bruises along the way. This is by no means rocket science
It is simple respect for the power of electricity and putting stuff together in a manner that a committee (NEC) finds suitable. No disrespect to the trade of course.Similar threads
