First annual True up bill came last week and we owe PGE 118 dollars (since there are certain fees that generation credits can't offset). If anyone is curious I can expand more on usage, generation, or what having a solar edge storedge system is like.
First True up electric bill - first year cost
- Thread starter Rolee
- Start date
MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
Please, with pix too!
6.12KW peak system (17 panels - 360W LG NEON) on west facing roof. I defined one cycle of my batteries as 80% DOD. Computed based off the 15 minute interval data provided by solaredge. We have EVs so our TOU means that off peak is around 13-15 cents/kwh, partial peak is 24-28 cents/kwh and peak is 34-48 cents/kwh (the range is based on different numbers depending on the season). This is how we were able to generate a lot less than what we used but much of our consumption was moved to off peak (over night) so that helped quite a bit. Note that our house is 100% electric - the furnace was replaced with heat pumps, the water heater is a heat pump and even our dryer is a heat pump! I am noticing a trend here....
Annual (numbers in Kilowatt Hour):
Total Production: 7,844.19
Total Consumption: 11,533.47
Battery:
Total Cycles: 281.93
Per Day (all numbers in watt-hours):
Median Production: 21,965.36
Median Consumption: 29,417.86
5th Percentile Production: 4,516.55
5th Percentile Consumption: 13,293.93
95th Percentile Production: 37,383.27
95th Percentile Consumption: 55,234.24
Annual (numbers in Kilowatt Hour):
Total Production: 7,844.19
Total Consumption: 11,533.47
Battery:
Total Cycles: 281.93
Per Day (all numbers in watt-hours):
Median Production: 21,965.36
Median Consumption: 29,417.86
5th Percentile Production: 4,516.55
5th Percentile Consumption: 13,293.93
95th Percentile Production: 37,383.27
95th Percentile Consumption: 55,234.24
Also decided to calculate output from the array itself :
Median Solar Power: 1994.32 watts
95th Solar Power: 4643.13 watts.
So essentially under ideal conditions my 6.12kw array tops out at ~4.6kw as measured by the inverter.
The inverter itself has a max output of 7.6kw continuous and the solar panels have dc optimizers so that the array can vary voltage as needed to do things like do dc-dc charging from the panels to the batteries or pull from both the panels and battery to offset loads that the house is generating. The system doesn't need to go DC->AC-> DC to charge the battery.
The inverter can operate under the following modes and you can make a custom profile that mixes these at different times of the day/week/year:
- Solar Only: pretend the batteries don't exist and behave like a normal grid tied system w/o storage
- Charge from clipped power: charge battery from generation that exceeds the capacity of the inverter (so if like I had 10kw of solar then anything about 7.6kw being generated at that moment would go to the batteries)
- Charge from solar: Route all power from solar to fill the batteries first and only after they are full do you load shed or export back to grid. I use this one in the first half of the day so I can ensure my batteries are as full as possible before peak expensive electricity starts.
- Charge from solar + grid: Use solar and pull from grid to charge batteries at max charge rate. I've used this temporarily when PGE announced shutoffs were about to start and I didn't know when they would hit my house.
- Discharge to maximize export: no idea why someone would want to drain their batteries as quickly as possible to the grid but it is a thing.
- Discharge to minimize import: confusingly this is the setting you would use if you are not allowed export to the grid. Basically uses solar + batteries to only meet your house demands and nothing more. I don't use this.
- Maximize self consumption: Use solar to power house first, if generation > load then charge batteries. If generation < load then discharge batteries so as not to pull from grid (as long as > minimum SOC). If batteries are full then and you are generating more than you are using, only then export back to grid. This is the setting I typically have during peak hours.
Solaredge doesn't make it easy to program these profiles (their UI kinda sucks) and you need special installer permissions in order to even be able to create them (my installer had to make these for me). As a user you can switch back and forth between different profiles on your own but it is a download from the internet. It would be so much nicer if you could save some "presets" locally and swap between them as you wish, but no. Each battery can charge/discharge at a max rate of 5kw. Annoyingly, with two batteries its still 5kw and the inverter just ping-pongs between them while charging and discharging (I've observed them and it doesn't drain/charge a single battery completely before switching to the other. It seems to use one for a bit then switch - it isn't clear if it is SOC based or if there is some algorithm based on "use" that it is trying to make even. Note that the two batteries are NOT the same part number even though they look the same. One is specifically a master battery and the other is a secondary. When I ordered the second one there was a mixup and a second master was installed and the system refused to work. fun. ) All in the system cost ~40k pre tax but let me tell you that it was 150% worth it when the power got shut off for 3 days here and we could still cook, charge the cars, and not worry about the food in the fridge spoiling. I am also going to install a manual transfer switch and use a circuit from the dedicated loads panel as a "generator" input so I can power other parts of my house temporarily. So basically a giant solar generator. In the truest sense of the word.
Median Solar Power: 1994.32 watts
95th Solar Power: 4643.13 watts.
So essentially under ideal conditions my 6.12kw array tops out at ~4.6kw as measured by the inverter.
The inverter itself has a max output of 7.6kw continuous and the solar panels have dc optimizers so that the array can vary voltage as needed to do things like do dc-dc charging from the panels to the batteries or pull from both the panels and battery to offset loads that the house is generating. The system doesn't need to go DC->AC-> DC to charge the battery.
The inverter can operate under the following modes and you can make a custom profile that mixes these at different times of the day/week/year:
- Solar Only: pretend the batteries don't exist and behave like a normal grid tied system w/o storage
- Charge from clipped power: charge battery from generation that exceeds the capacity of the inverter (so if like I had 10kw of solar then anything about 7.6kw being generated at that moment would go to the batteries)
- Charge from solar: Route all power from solar to fill the batteries first and only after they are full do you load shed or export back to grid. I use this one in the first half of the day so I can ensure my batteries are as full as possible before peak expensive electricity starts.
- Charge from solar + grid: Use solar and pull from grid to charge batteries at max charge rate. I've used this temporarily when PGE announced shutoffs were about to start and I didn't know when they would hit my house.
- Discharge to maximize export: no idea why someone would want to drain their batteries as quickly as possible to the grid but it is a thing.
- Discharge to minimize import: confusingly this is the setting you would use if you are not allowed export to the grid. Basically uses solar + batteries to only meet your house demands and nothing more. I don't use this.
- Maximize self consumption: Use solar to power house first, if generation > load then charge batteries. If generation < load then discharge batteries so as not to pull from grid (as long as > minimum SOC). If batteries are full then and you are generating more than you are using, only then export back to grid. This is the setting I typically have during peak hours.
Solaredge doesn't make it easy to program these profiles (their UI kinda sucks) and you need special installer permissions in order to even be able to create them (my installer had to make these for me). As a user you can switch back and forth between different profiles on your own but it is a download from the internet. It would be so much nicer if you could save some "presets" locally and swap between them as you wish, but no. Each battery can charge/discharge at a max rate of 5kw. Annoyingly, with two batteries its still 5kw and the inverter just ping-pongs between them while charging and discharging (I've observed them and it doesn't drain/charge a single battery completely before switching to the other. It seems to use one for a bit then switch - it isn't clear if it is SOC based or if there is some algorithm based on "use" that it is trying to make even. Note that the two batteries are NOT the same part number even though they look the same. One is specifically a master battery and the other is a secondary. When I ordered the second one there was a mixup and a second master was installed and the system refused to work. fun. ) All in the system cost ~40k pre tax but let me tell you that it was 150% worth it when the power got shut off for 3 days here and we could still cook, charge the cars, and not worry about the food in the fridge spoiling. I am also going to install a manual transfer switch and use a circuit from the dedicated loads panel as a "generator" input so I can power other parts of my house temporarily. So basically a giant solar generator. In the truest sense of the word.
MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
Sorry i cannot tell from your pix (thanks!) but what equipment are in your system? That is a heck of a system though on the expensive side. Glad you are 150% satisfied with it!
I went thru my PG&E bill and generate about 90% of the "amount" of power that I consume. I get killed selling power cheap and buying the same amount back at sometimes double the rate. And the $10 per month minimum usage and the connection fees really add up too.
I have about 3kw but gas oven/stove, clothes dryer, furnace, spa heater.
Thanks for sharing, i needed a reason to revisit my PG&E bill (though it makes my blood boil sometimes).
I went thru my PG&E bill and generate about 90% of the "amount" of power that I consume. I get killed selling power cheap and buying the same amount back at sometimes double the rate. And the $10 per month minimum usage and the connection fees really add up too.
I have about 3kw but gas oven/stove, clothes dryer, furnace, spa heater.
Thanks for sharing, i needed a reason to revisit my PG&E bill (though it makes my blood boil sometimes).
The batteries are LG CHEM RESU10Hs and the rest is all the various components that solaredge sells: the inverter, auto transformer (the white box above one of the batteries), the monitoring controller (white box in bottom left corner of picture). The rest is just misc stuff (dc combiner box so the two batteries can be connected to the inverter), a sub panel that has breakers for the inverter and monitor (so that it can be disconnected from the inside) and a junction box that runs out to the main panel/meter outside.
MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
Lithium Ion ... "Must be installed by certified installer..." - good idea!
Solar Edge Hybrid (found in specs as compatible then google).
I like the 10 year performance warranty, hopefully you won't need it or the solar installer will handle it.
Thanks for sharing!
Solar Edge Hybrid (found in specs as compatible then google).
I like the 10 year performance warranty, hopefully you won't need it or the solar installer will handle it.
Thanks for sharing!
PGE did not make it easy for me. After the system was installed it took 7 months of jumping through hoops to get them to give me permission to turn it on. Hence why the whole thing is completely not DIY- I couldn't give them any excuse to make it harder for me. Ideally I'd like a whole other system that is off grid and probably lifepo batteries but I think the wife doesn't want me going too crazy for now...
Similar threads
