HELP - Watts - leap frog - I'm wrong somewhere

[RAA]

LVS SP 6548 inverter/charger - everything purchased from Sungoldpower through this sites links - THANKS!!
Panels - Aionrise 330W Mono-Crystalline PERC ( BLACK )

Did a leap frog using (8 gauge wire for a 20 foot home run), the leap frog using 10 panels seems reasonable since the home runs are the same, and it saved me 25 feet of wire. I have another 200 feet of extra wire if needed, not using for now. ***RESULT*** - I got an F11 error - PV overvoltage
knocked it down to 8 panels and again F11 error - PV overvoltage - 250VOC max
knocked it down to 6 panels and no error but with 6 - 330watt panels I am only pulling 200 watts - again they are leap frogged but I am obviously wrong somewhere
I connected a power strip and can run a work light and a harbor freight outdoor fan - pulling 140-150watts
Connected the window unit and it shut the inverter down, obviously

Why is it only getting 200 watts from the 6 panels that are leap frogged?

THANKS!

 

[Ampster]

I am unfamiliar with the term, "leap frogged" with regard to solar panels. You figured out you had too many in series if you got over voltage error messages. It sounds like 6 panels is series is the maximum voltage but you can put groups of six series panels in parallel to increase amperage which will increase Wattage. Some inverter manufacturers offer panel configuration guides that may be able to help you. There are probably several combinations that can optimize Wattage production.

 

[timselectric]

I believe what they mean by leapfroging is connecting every other panel.
As in 6 panels in a row connected in an alternating order.
1>3>5>6>4>2

 

[Ampster]

I believe what they mean by leapfroging is connecting every other panel.

Thanks, I have done that to save wire but it still resulted in panels in series. The important issue is to find the optimum balance of series and parallel, regardles of physical layout. If he only has ten panels then his choices are five pairs in series of two in each pair being parallel or two sets of five in in series and parallel those two strings.

 

[timselectric]

Thanks, I have done that to save wire but it still resulted in panels in series. The important issue is to find the optimum balance of series and parallel, regardles of physical layout. If he only has ten panels then his choices are five pairs in series of two in each pair being parallel or two sets of five in in series and parallel those two strings.

I definitely would choose 5s2p.

 

[RAA]

So it is in series (leap frog) and done to save from one end having along home run. My problem is I have panels I purchased new that are Aionrise and 330watts each.
I turned 2 of the leap frogs into old school in series with 2 long home runs but still do not have anywhere near what the watts should be (5 panels joined together with a Y) I generate 200 watts max even when I run 5 panels alone (5x330=1650 but understand loss could make it less) I should be getting WAY OVER 200 watts???
5 panels in series by themselves = 1,650 watts a 50% loss would still exceed 800 watts
5x2 strings joined with a y = 3,300 watts a 50% loss would still exceed 1,500 watts
?? what could be going on? These are how I installed the panels

 

[mikefitz]

what could be going on?

Shaded panels?

 

[zanydroid]

There might be a bad panel dragging everything down, and the MPPT is not able to activate bypass bc the diodes are busted too?

Or just straight busted wiring

 

[RAA]

wiring was done during install but not the home run. Volts are coming in correctly 6 panels creating 209-208 (6 panels) volts at the inverter and the voltage meter is reading the same on both sides of my shut off. There is no shade on the panels except for the crate myrtles on the left run shading a touch. The amps form the inverter are reading .1 which would tell me why I am only seeing 20-40 watts from the inverter. The inverter was in my office for 1.5 years in its box, the only thing I removed was the directions/guide book.
There is no shade on the second photo, none. Blue sky no clouds. Only 1 of those 5 panes strings is operating with correct voltage of 168. There is 38 volts per panel so the math adds up as far as voltage and comparing the 6 that are leap frogged and the 5 that are daisy chained with 1 long home run.
The inverter is suppose to run off of panels and not need a battery, I hooked up the AC input and it tripped the GFI outlet
Not sure what else to trouble shoot other than buying a cheap inverter and hooking it up

 

[zanydroid]

Next thing I can think of is bypassing part of the string at the time so you can divide and conquer to find the problem

Switching MPPT / alternate inverter is a good idea

Battery-less and non grid tie adds troubleshooting challenge bc you don’t have a reliable load you can plug in without overloading panels. Battery and grid feedback auto adjust

 

[RAA]

OK, I checked every panel on the front roof - brown color roof. The amps and volts are correct on every panel (10 panels) I ran 5 in series to the inverter and the amps are correct at the fuse and volts. The inverter shows proper volts but .1 amps and 25 watts - attached are the photos. This inverter is supposed to be able to run w/o a battery LVS6548. What else can I check and do I need to do the AC connection for the inverter to generate the amps? 5 in series 38 volts each what am I missing?

 

[zanydroid]

Yuck, battery less off grid. You need to reason through the consequences

If you have no batteries what are you using to generate a test load? The MPPT will only pull power if load is there. You want something with manageable surge that you can ramp up slowly. And actually many many things have startup current surge, just not as bad as inductive ones. Also some things with multiple power levels do it with on off modulation. If on modulation is more than your panels can handle then the lack of a buffer battery means you are hosed.

What is the bypass mode if there is not enough power?

Window AC unit has huge startup surge. There is no buffer battery to supply it so it has to come from the panels. You may need massive overpaneling.

 

[RAA]

Yuck, battery less off grid. You need to reason through the consequences

If you have no batteries what are you using to generate a test load? The MPPT will only pull power if load is there. You want something with manageable surge that you can ramp up slowly. And actually many many things have startup current surge, just not as bad as inductive ones. Also some things with multiple power levels do it with on off modulation. If on modulation is more than your panels can handle then the lack of a buffer battery means you are hosed.

What is the bypass mode if there is not enough power?

Window AC unit has huge startup surge. There is no buffer battery to supply it so it has to come from the panels. You may need massive overpaneling.

This inverter was suppose to run with or without a battery. I am trying to figure out why the AMPS are showing .1 when it shows proper at each panel and at the end of the string(5panels in series). The volts are showing correctly at the inverter, panel and the end of the string and match what the inverter shows compared to the meter reading......
Can not using a battery do this to the AMPS?
Should I hook it to the AC load as well?
This inverter was suppose to work off of panels alone
I am getting a 48v battery but this was suppose to work alone - I have 20 panels 330watts each so 6,600 watts but even at 50% it should run a
Fridge (3) already cooled, window unit during power outage ie Hurricane season
I emailed sungold power as well - awaiting response.

 

[zanydroid]

I don't think your understanding of how these devices works is enough to build a battery-less system, and I don't think sungoldpower will be better than the forum.

You HAVE to have a load to draw power from solar panels. The battery helps here because if the battery is empty, charging the battery generates a load. And the load is well behaved from an electrical angle.

The inverter works off panels but if you exceed the available power (which I don't think you have the right mental model for) it will shut off. For instance, you aren't factoring in

• time of day -> different amount of light due to the sun angle. I can tell b/c you simply derated your panels by 50%.
• surge to start fridge and AC loads, which have a high inductive startup surge

So yes you have to hook up something to AC to draw more amps.

Hopefully others can help you more, I think I've brought up all necessary concepts at least once in this thread. Good luck.

 

[RAA]

 

[RAA]

I don't think your understanding of how these devices works is enough to build a battery-less system, and I don't think sungoldpower will be better than the forum.

You HAVE to have a load to draw power from solar panels. The battery helps here because if the battery is empty, charging the battery generates a load. And the load is well behaved from an electrical angle.

The inverter works off panels but if you exceed the available power (which I don't think you have the right mental model for) it will shut off. For instance, you aren't factoring in

• time of day -> different amount of light due to the sun angle. I can tell b/c you simply derated your panels by 50%.
• surge to start fridge and AC loads, which have a high inductive startup surge

So yes you have to hook up something to AC to draw more amps.

Hopefully others can help you more, I think I've brought up all necessary concepts at least once in this thread. Good luck.

Thanks Z!
I am either going to get a 48v battery and another inverter or just a 48v battery
It seems I am not communicating what is going on - I have measured each panel individually and the end of the string, continuity etc etc

There is no draw on the inverter - nothing is hooked up that requires power, nothing. The plan is to run window units and freezers, I also have the U shaped window unit which requires less watts and a soft start for my main HVAC unit etc etc, so I understand a little bit, not much but a little.

The only thing plugged into the inverter are the solar panels.
WHY would the inverter correctly show the Volts 177 but only .1 amps -while the handheld meter shows 8.7-9 amps and 177 volts at the end of the string - this inverter is supposed to work without a battery
****So Amps x volts gives us watts****
According to the meter the inverter should show much more watts - given 8.7 amps x 177 volts would be more than 25 watts, LOL,
FYI Full sub on the panels and they are clean
I also tried to use the AC supply to the inverter and shows the power source from the AC outlet at 116-117 volts- but when you turn the inverter on it trips the GFCI

It seems I am not communicating what is going on or no one here can explain what is going on - Panels seem to be working, the 8 gauge 100% copper lines are good, sun is/was shinning, panels are clean, meter readings show the string is good, meter reading on individual panels show the panels are good

 

[timselectric]

There is no draw on the inverter - nothing is hooked up that requires power, nothing

And this is why it isn't drawing any amps from the panels.
It only drawing enough power to run the inverter.