Help with 128 batteries each one is 280ah, and want to configure for 48v system.

[Honuz]

One thing I've noticed is your really interested in telling others what they need to be doing with their own stuff. What If i posted a present pic that showed concrete board mounted behind the batteries?

Post pics of your setup

If you do not like critics, do not post on public website. If it's not for critic or improvement why posting.
Puting something that can catch fire on a piece of wood is asking for trouble.
In our country, code say you need at least...2xBA13 sheet between electric panel and flamable wall.
Do not know if you got BA 13 in the us

 

[Zwy]

One thing I've noticed is your really interested in telling others what they need to be doing with their own stuff. What If i posted a present pic that showed concrete board mounted behind the batteries?

Post pics of your setup

If you don't believe fire hazard is in issue, then you're OK and free to choose what you want to do. There are threads out there in the archives that do indicate there is a fire hazard due to the inherent risk of using and producing electricity.

It is all about risk management and your choice of how much risk you're willing to endure. Some can afford to rebuild a dwelling damaged by fire that insurance won't pay on, some are willing to risk their life taking risks others won't.

If you're satisfied with your setup, then OK. If someone might question it, accept their opinion knowing they may be more risk adverse than yourself. The purpose of these forums is help and guidance to not only the individual but also the group of all members.

 

[Bleedingblue]

If you do not like critics, do not post on public website. If it's not for critic or improvement why posting.
Puting something that can catch fire on a piece of wood is asking for trouble.
In our country, code say you need at least...2xBA13 sheet between electric panel and flamable wall.
Do not know if you got BA 13 in the us

If you do not like critics, do not post on public website. If it's not for critic or improvement why posting.
Puting something that can catch fire on a piece of wood is asking for trouble.
In our country, code say you need at least...2xBA13 sheet between electric panel and flamable wall.
Do not know if you got BA 13 in the us

Hopefully my batteries don't magically turn into blow torches with a steady supply of propane.

Maybe you should look up concrete board.


Also post pics of your solar system so It can be critiqued like what you do to others. Like I said before your all about picking on others but can't seem to post pics of your system




I've been waiting for pics of your mighty solar system to put everyone else's to shame but havent posted it??

 

[Bleedingblue]

If you don't believe fire hazard is in issue, then you're OK and free to choose what you want to do. There are threads out there in the archives that do indicate there is a fire hazard due to the inherent risk of using and producing electricity.

It is all about risk management and your choice of how much risk you're willing to endure. Some can afford to rebuild a dwelling damaged by fire that insurance won't pay on, some are willing to risk their life taking risks others won't.

If you're satisfied with your setup, then OK. If someone might question it, accept their opinion knowing they may be more risk adverse than yourself. The purpose of these forums is help and guidance to not only the individual but also the group of all members.

Everything is a fire hazard no way in life to get around it. You risk turning Into a flaming ball of fire driving a car down the road. But it's risk we all take.

I see pics of guys putting their cells in metal tool boxes, metal cabinets, plastic tool boxes, osb compressed ends time after time after time. I have yet to see comments on there installs on how unsafe it is. Easily could shorten out cells touching metal. Plastic can burn much more intensely than wood etc etc


The way I see it if you guys wanna critique others then you should finance and build their system for them. If someone asks for help then provide it.

 

[Sanwizard]

Everything is a fire hazard no way in life to get around it. You risk turning Into a flaming ball of fire driving a car down the road. But it's risk we all take.

I see pics of guys putting their cells in metal tool boxes, metal cabinets, plastic tool boxes, osb compressed ends time after time after time. I have yet to see comments on there installs on how unsafe it is. Easily could shorten out cells touching metal. Plastic can burn much more intensely than wood etc etc


The way I see it if you guys wanna critique others then you should finance and build their system for them. If someone asks for help then provide it.

And you are free to be a dick to folks who are just be trying to help and advise, and may actually have more experience than yourself, if that's possible.

 

[Bleedingblue]

And you are free to be a dick to folks who are just be trying to help and advise, and may actually have more experience than yourself, if that's possible.

No they are not. They are being a dick just like you are now. And I didn't ask for advisement.

 

[Hedges]

I guess we'll just have to be patient, maybe later console ourselves with schadenfreude.

 

[Honuz]

Hopefully my batteries don't magically turn into blow torches with a steady supply of propane.

Maybe you should look up concrete board.


Also post pics of your solar system so It can be critiqued like what you do to others. Like I said before your all about picking on others but can't seem to post pics of your system




I've been waiting for pics of your mighty solar system to put everyone else's to shame but havent posted it??

"Hopefully" you will not burn alive, hopefully.
"There is no way to get around fire hazard" : Well there are many ways, using fireproof material is one..

 

[Bleedingblue]

"Hopefully" you will not burn alive, hopefully.
"There is no way to get around fire hazard" : Well there are many ways, using fireproof material is one..

I take it you have your batteries in your living quarters, I do not. What you going to do when your batteries catch on fire and gas out while you are asleep and your breathing in poisonous fumes? Have it vented to the outside?

Every single system on this board has risks.


To the OP. Sry for the hijack of your thread. All I was doing is giving ya some ideas on potential lithium ideas. You got lectured and so did I.

 

[Zwy]

I take it you have your batteries in your living quarters, I do not. What you going to do when your batteries catch on fire and gas out while you are asleep and your breathing in poisonous fumes? Have it vented to the outside?

Every single system on this board has risks.


To the OP. Sry for the hijack of your thread. All I was doing is giving ya some ideas on potential lithium ideas. You got lectured and so did I.

My batteries aren't going into my bedroom. They are going into a metal cabinet that is a Hoffman electrical enclosure.

I'll sleep very well with fire suppression inside the enclosure plus smoke and heat detectors wired to alarms in the house.

Just last week in the small town (300 pop) I live by, an electrical fire started in the detached garage and spread quickly to the house. Was either electrical or a freezer. The family luckily escaped due to the smoke detectors in the house. The house is a total loss, they lost almost everything. They like you, went to bed that night never thinking they would be awakened by a fire and having to escape. They were very lucky. Some people aren't as lucky.

We are working with systems that contain large amounts of stored energy. That energy sometimes can be discharged quite quickly and with considerable damage. The idea is to mitigate risks should this ever occur. Steps can be taken to counteract failures of system components. Face it, these are just man made items and they do have a failure rate.

If you're willing to take risks, then do it. Don't chide others for not being willing to take the same risk.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Some might think to put a smoke detector, that’s great idea!

However, most are quiet until suddenly very loud and no configurable threshold.

There are cheap (30-50usd) sensors that count air particles very reliably and are even used in a nationwide air monitoring network. Can count different sizes, from PM1.0 to PM2.5 to PM10.0.

Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout

Breathe easy, knowing that you can track and sense the quality of the air around you with this Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout. This sensor is great for monitoring air quality, ...

www.adafruit.com

This is the sensor I will be using for the area around my battery build.

Maybe think of it like a canary.

This little sensor “breathes” the air and reports how many particles of different sizes from second to second.

This is the same type of sensor that thousands of people are using to determine when the wildfire smoke is rolling into their area. An AQI above 250 is a CLEAR signal suggesting that smoke danger or fire danger is imminent or already present. Check out Purpleair if you want to know what I mean. It’s a dead certain way to know when something is even smoldering in the battery compartment. The tiny particles coming from the chemical reaction will give it away.

All due respect to everyone making decisions For Themselves.

From my experience with navigating the health threat of wildfire smoke, and using the purpleair network, which uses laser particle counting at a fundamental level, this is a natural and clear option to mitigate the risk of not catching a fire early.

May everyone enjoy the benefits of a life animated by electricity and also enjoy health for long time.

 

[Honuz]

Some might think to put a smoke detector, that’s great idea!

However, most are quiet until suddenly very loud and no configurable threshold.

There are cheap (30-50usd) sensors that count air particles very reliably and are even used in a nationwide air monitoring network. Can count different sizes, from PM1.0 to PM2.5 to PM10.0.

View attachment 75039

Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout

Breathe easy, knowing that you can track and sense the quality of the air around you with this Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout. This sensor is great for monitoring air quality, ...

www.adafruit.com

This is the sensor I will be using for the area around my battery build.

Maybe think of it like a canary.

This little sensor “breathes” the air and reports how many particles of different sizes from second to second.

This is the same type of sensor that thousands of people are using to determine when the wildfire smoke is rolling into their area. An AQI above 250 is a CLEAR signal suggesting that smoke danger or fire danger is imminent or already present. Check out Purpleair if you want to know what I mean. It’s a dead certain way to know when something is even smoldering in the battery compartment. The tiny particles coming from the chemical reaction will give it away.

All due respect to everyone making decisions For Themselves.

From my experience with navigating the health threat of wildfire smoke, and using the purpleair network, which uses laser particle counting at a fundamental level, this is a natural and clear option to mitigate the risk of not catching a fire early.

May everyone enjoy the benefits of a life animated by electricity and also enjoy health for long time.

Amen....?

Agreed with you guys on detectors, it should be mandatory, I got 2 basic smoke detectors.

 

[Zwy]

Some might think to put a smoke detector, that’s great idea!

However, most are quiet until suddenly very loud and no configurable threshold.

There are cheap (30-50usd) sensors that count air particles very reliably and are even used in a nationwide air monitoring network. Can count different sizes, from PM1.0 to PM2.5 to PM10.0.

View attachment 75039

Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout

Breathe easy, knowing that you can track and sense the quality of the air around you with this Adafruit PMSA003I Air Quality Breakout. This sensor is great for monitoring air quality, ...

www.adafruit.com

This is the sensor I will be using for the area around my battery build.

Maybe think of it like a canary.

This little sensor “breathes” the air and reports how many particles of different sizes from second to second.

This is the same type of sensor that thousands of people are using to determine when the wildfire smoke is rolling into their area. An AQI above 250 is a CLEAR signal suggesting that smoke danger or fire danger is imminent or already present. Check out Purpleair if you want to know what I mean. It’s a dead certain way to know when something is even smoldering in the battery compartment. The tiny particles coming from the chemical reaction will give it away.

All due respect to everyone making decisions For Themselves.

From my experience with navigating the health threat of wildfire smoke, and using the purpleair network, which uses laser particle counting at a fundamental level, this is a natural and clear option to mitigate the risk of not catching a fire early.

May everyone enjoy the benefits of a life animated by electricity and also enjoy health for long time.

It's a little too geeky for me, I have about 10 projects at any time so don't code. But neat little sensor, ran across this video which was pretty neat.

 

[dweick]

Some can afford to rebuild a dwelling damaged by fire that insurance won't pay on, some are willing to risk their life taking risks others won't.

I've yet to see a homeowners insurance policy that excluded damage from a fire due to your poor engineering skills or any other form of incompetence or for using some non-UL rated equipment. Deliberately set your house on fire and it is excluded, doing something stupid or incompetent isn't an exclusion. if your policy reads differently I'd love to see the pertinent language.

 

[Bleedingblue]

My batteries aren't going into my bedroom. They are going into a metal cabinet that is a Hoffman electrical enclosure.

I'll sleep very well with fire suppression inside the enclosure plus smoke and heat detectors wired to alarms in the house.

Just last week in the small town (300 pop) I live by, an electrical fire started in the detached garage and spread quickly to the house. Was either electrical or a freezer. The family luckily escaped due to the smoke detectors in the house. The house is a total loss, they lost almost everything. They like you, went to bed that night never thinking they would be awakened by a fire and having to escape. They were very lucky. Some people aren't as lucky.

We are working with systems that contain large amounts of stored energy. That energy sometimes can be discharged quite quickly and with considerable damage. The idea is to mitigate risks should this ever occur. Steps can be taken to counteract failures of system components. Face it, these are just man made items and they do have a failure rate.

If you're willing to take risks, then do it. Don't chide others for not being willing to take the same risk.

Oh I wasn't chiding anyone just defending myself from those who are quick to point fingers and provide nothing of their own system. My batteries are around 100 ft from my house. I'll think I'll be OK.

 

[Hedges]

My batteries are around 100 ft from my house. I'll think I'll be OK.

I'm not sure that's far enough - the explosion could throw a fireman right through the wall of your house.

Report: Four Firefighters Injured In Lithium-Ion Battery Energy Storage System Explosion - Arizona | UL's FSRI – Fire Safety Research Institute

FSRI releases new report investigating near-miss lithium-ion battery energy storage system explosion. Funded by the U.S.

fsri.org

 

[curiouscarbon]

It's a little too geeky for me, I have about 10 projects at any time so don't code. But neat little sensor, ran across this video which was pretty neat.

Found this gem, giving a bit of insight into the operation of the particle thingy

 

[hummmingbear]

16S, 48V/280AH battery at 0%SOC (all cells at 2.50v) = 40.0V. 11.2 kWh
16S, 48V/280AH battery at 100%SOC (all cells at 3.65v) = 58.4V. 16.352 kWh
The "sweet spot" in general for these cells is between 3.40 to 3.50V at the top and 3.0-2.80V at the bottom and that is exactly where the voltage curve loves to be. As most folks run them 10% below the top & 10% above the top "more or less".

Found your post and have some questions as I'm setting up some EVE cells myself. If I want to maintain that healthy sweet-spot for the cells, you're saying setting my Absorption voltage to 3.50V would do just that? Do you have any recommendations for float voltages, or should I also maintain float at 3.5V?

 

[hummmingbear]

If you use LiFePO4
Study this;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SyzKUZ5_KxLB6megSLTXYv_1LlbcFqE4gxMgK8SrMvs/edit?usp=sharing

Reading your google doc, thank you for that.

If I want to maintain 90% SOC according to that I would charge to 3.35V/cell. I have a few questions:
Is 3.35V both my 'absorption' and 'float' voltage, or would I set a lower float voltage?

These are all brand new cells and I will top balance before I put them into service. However will I have issues with them being in balance if I'm only charging to 3.35V as it sits in a flat spot of the voltage curve. Do you recommend occasionally charging higher so that the BMS can better balance the cells?

How do SmartShunts that measure SOC work with this? Is it going to show me ~90% if I'm charging to 3.35V? I have a lot of experience with my FLA batteries but 0 experience with LiFePO4

Does your doc reflect voltages for EVE cells as well? The voltage curve looks a bit different from their doc.

 

[Ampster]

I would not float lithium at the same voltage as absorb unless your use case is a home or similar environment which has loads and you are charging from solar. 3.35 is very close to the voltage in which the cells settle at at might not trigger balancing. I charge my EVE cells to 3.40 volts with a long absorb time. I only charge from solar. My inverter does not have a setting for Float when I choose Lithium profile.