How long can you (and your family) survive if the grid went down for an extended period?

[wattmatters]

Well… this map shows there are a lot more around me

Our nearest operating nuclear power plant is ~7,000km away

 

[12VoltInstalls]

if you can’t protect your stuff, you won’t have your stuff very long

I’ve always had the opinion that protecting one’s stuff is going to work a few times. Then the volume of ‘shoppers’ will start to decline and it’ll switch from scary people to the dangerous people. If you make it through those people you’ll have to be good enough to last long enough to the point where either people become rare or some sort of order is restored.
I don’t think the chances of something happening that catastrophic are high. But like in my area? November through at least mid March, if something major happens there’s gonna be a very bad scenario two- to three weeks in when people get cold, hungry, and desperate.
It will probably solve the drug problem, though…

 

[Brucey]

I got one 60 miles away. The internet says the exclusion zone for Chenobal is 18.6 miles but that was just a partial meltdown and then it was encapsulated.

Chernobyl was extra nasty as there was no containment building so it just exploded and ejected a ton of radiation all over Europe. Of course not notifying any other countries until the evidence was undeniable.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

If the toilet paper is gone its covid season

I didn’t get the runs when I had it ?

 

[Crowz]

I didn’t get the runs when I had it b

I have no clue what the symptoms are but I know when the "great panic" set in toilet paper and gold had the same per ounce price

 

[teal95]

U

Dang brother, you started late also.

When your youngest is 21 you will be eligible for SS.

My youngest is 30 so I understand. I was 40 when had him.

I'm also 56 and youngest is 8. I'll retire before she finishes high school.

I grew up in a fairly rural area off the south end of Lake Michigan. Blizzards were an annual event, usually covering my birthday. Usually the blizzards didn't take out the power, but the spring time ice storms would. We had one outage that we were out for 2 weeks. The neighbors down the road were out for 4.

I have 1kW of panels FLA batteries and a 2500 watt inverter in the shed that's usually used for charging the golf cart, which could also be used for mobile power. We have 8kW of grid tied panels and I'm in the process of building another system 20kW of panels and 30kWh of batteries. That plus a 9kW generator should handle the power for an extended period. I also have a hand pump for water in the garden. Food would be the limiting factor but we probably have enough to gardening time.

 

[augiedoggy]

Closest one is McGuire Nuclear which is about 100 miles away.
Hopefully that’s far enough.

Research it... honestly once all of them fail it doesnt matter where you are... I understand some would rather just choose to ignore this and waste crazy amounts of time they have now while things are good, prepping for the end of the world but.... The reality is the worlds greatest minds already removed that option or you... Or should I say they actually succeeded on making sure they end it for everyone?
Sorry.

 

[augiedoggy]

Chernobyl was extra nasty as there was no containment building so it just exploded and ejected a ton of radiation all over Europe. Of course not notifying any other countries until the evidence was undeniable.

Once all the reactors, and just as important all the cooling facilities for the spent rods fail it truly wont matter. Theres actually a documentary about this.. why am I the only one who apparently saw and read about this? I hope I didnt just spoil somebody's life goal here?

Its cool though ill pretend... I built a golf cart that never needs to be plugged in as long as the sun works...I have solar on my house and camper and a spare setup for the future cabin.
I can garden, hunt im handy too And I can brew Beer and make spirits.... so unless some random thing kills me I would do ok...

 

[augiedoggy]

Chernobyl was extra nasty as there was no containment building so it just exploded and ejected a ton of radiation all over Europe. Of course not notifying any other countries until the evidence was undeniable

Chernobyl was extra nasty as there was no containment building so it just exploded and ejected a ton of radiation all over Europe. Of course not notifying any other countries until the evidence was undeniable.

well I'm sure they will plan and be sure to not make that mistake twice if the end of civilization happens to occur... which is the only way the "grid" would go down permanently

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

U

Dang brother, you started late also.

When your youngest is 21 you will be eligible for SS.

My youngest is 30 so I understand. I was 40 when had him.

2nd time around, two boys already down with college at 38 and 32. remarried and now two girls. 12, and 13

 

[Nobodybusiness]

2nd time around, two boys already down with college at 38 and 32. remarried and now two girls. 12, and 13

So you had them young and older.
You have quite the progeny.
What do your boys think about having teenage sisters??
I’ll bet that’s a hoot during Holidays.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

So you had them young and older.
You have quite the progeny.
What do your boys think about having teenage sisters??
I’ll bet that’s a hoot during Holidays.

actually not an issue as they live on the southern islands and rarely come up north. they just kind of think (they never say it) that I am bat shit crazy anyways... i just tell them that due to the declining birth rate in Japan I am trying to repopulate it with half Irish American, half Japanese hybrids to try and put some fighting spirit back in the blood lines here.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

hunt

Don’t depend on that! Maybe it’s different in less rural areas, cities, etc., but MANY people hunt. Within the law and harvest limits. Around here, though, if an actual major grid-down event occurs (lasting months versus 2-3 weeks) once people start starving and getting desperate even the typically robust population of food/game animals will be decimated in short order in my opinion.
If food supply / transportation / stores get compromised, those capable of feeding themselves won’t be firing a gun (announcing themselves) for very long as attrition sets in- the true resilient will be trapping, snaring, or using other efficient means of acquiring meat that are ‘silent’ and in my opinion that will deplete the wild supply of warm-blooded food in a matter of months. Just my opinion. Just watching dumb people now.
It does amaze me: I know someone with like ten or twelve freezers in their basement, no generator, no solar, no wood heat, and a few hundred canning jars of various vegetables but no flour, rice, or other grains. They think they’re prepared, think they are survivors. If the grid falls down? How long before those freezers melt and spoil?!! How long before that draft basement freezes without heat? In two to four weeks all those canning jars will start to freeze and burst.
I’m not advocating for ignoring situations or for not ‘preparing’ - I’m just saying that for me, currently, being fairly unprepared as far as supplies and stored food, I feel more prepared and secure 1) being aware, 2) having solar, 3) being resourceful, 4) being realistic about my vulnerable state than those folks I mentioned who are totally grid dependent. And I know a number of people that think/act like they do, just with less on hand.
‘Hunting’ is going to be fairly short term if a totally disruptive national or international ‘event’ occurs.

think (they never say it) that I am bat shit crazy

That’s a cultural phenomenon- even in the not too distant past this thinking was the flier. The sixties and seventies essentially codified the foundations of the cultural belief that anything not new is irrelevant.

Think about all the adventure books and stuff like Boy Scouts, the order in classrooms… even the Hardy Boys series and the street-race novels, hot rod magazines, etc (that were a part of ‘my’ youth) and you can see the cultural shift to the idea that the older generations are out of touch and unrealistic. It’s funny: even ‘the hunger games’ - much more current- depicted a kind of respect for the ‘elders’ that the culture does not generally reflect.
My own daughters- 28 and 32- somehow missed certain values I tried to instill as well as not having a practical understanding of our vulnerability to infrastructure systems and what that could lead to; in many aspects they think I am a bit crazy, even with basics like not carrying a debt load for cars or furnishings, etc.

Once all the reactors, and just as important all the cooling facilities for the spent rods fail it truly wont matter.

I’m not rose-colored-glasses but that is such a low probability concern- and such an unavoidable outcome should it occur- that I don’t even think about it. You are right: it truly won’t matter.
What worries me is what happens when walmart doesn’t have milk, bread, meat (or toilet paper) on the shelves for weeks at a time. Covid got us a glimpse of wandering cyclically nearly empty shelves at the grocery store - those folks with their fear of covid and desperation to buy food were a harbinger of zombies imho. Or like watching the anger and ire of people being denied the opportunity to buy paint at home depot… prezombie behavior.

Back to an extended grid-down situation: I too read the question as not being a survivalist question, but rather, “how long can my power last?”
Because I haven’t got everything set up yet and The Dark Months arriving early, my production has only been 500-1200W and I require 1.2-2kWh daily. I haven’t been fully recharged in over 10 days; had to run the generator an hour twice. But I’m only running about 20% of my panels so I need to get the setup done and I may not need the gen, and when I get the 2500W of ‘extras’ running I’ll be even better off. I, like most of us, am not lazy but rather prioritize things based on the time available and urgency LOL

 

[SilverbackMP]

Don’t depend on that! Maybe it’s different in less rural areas, cities, etc., but MANY people hunt. Within the law and harvest limits. Around here, though, if an actual major grid-down event occurs (lasting months versus 2-3 weeks) once people start starving and getting desperate even the typically robust population of food/game animals will be decimated in short order in my opinion.
If food supply / transportation / stores get compromised, those capable of feeding themselves won’t be firing a gun (announcing themselves) for very long as attrition sets in- the true resilient will be trapping, snaring, or using other efficient means of acquiring meat that are ‘silent’ and in my opinion that will deplete the wild supply of warm-blooded food in a matter of months. Just my opinion. Just watching dumb people now.
It does amaze me: I know someone with like ten or twelve freezers in their basement, no generator, no solar, no wood heat, and a few hundred canning jars of various vegetables but no flour, rice, or other grains. They think they’re prepared, think they are survivors. If the grid falls down? How long before those freezers melt and spoil?!! How long before that draft basement freezes without heat? In two to four weeks all those canning jars will start to freeze and burst.
I’m not advocating for ignoring situations or for not ‘preparing’ - I’m just saying that for me, currently, being fairly unprepared as far as supplies and stored food, I feel more prepared and secure 1) being aware, 2) having solar, 3) being resourceful, 4) being realistic about my vulnerable state than those folks I mentioned who are totally grid dependent. And I know a number of people that think/act like they do, just with less on hand.
‘Hunting’ is going to be fairly short term if a totally disruptive national or international ‘event’ occurs.

That’s a cultural phenomenon- even in the not too distant past this thinking was the flier. The sixties and seventies essentially codified the foundations of the cultural belief that anything not new is irrelevant.

Think about all the adventure books and stuff like Boy Scouts, the order in classrooms… even the Hardy Boys series and the street-race novels, hot rod magazines, etc (that were a part of ‘my’ youth) and you can see the cultural shift to the idea that the older generations are out of touch and unrealistic. It’s funny: even ‘the hunger games’ - much more current- depicted a kind of respect for the ‘elders’ that the culture does not generally reflect.
My own daughters- 28 and 32- somehow missed certain values I tried to instill as well as not having a practical understanding of our vulnerability to infrastructure systems and what that could lead to; in many aspects they think I am a bit crazy, even with basics like not carrying a debt load for cars or furnishings, etc.

I’m not rose-colored-glasses but that is such a low probability concern- and such an unavoidable outcome should it occur- that I don’t even think about it. You are right: it truly won’t matter.
What worries me is what happens when walmart doesn’t have milk, bread, meat (or toilet paper) on the shelves for weeks at a time. Covid got us a glimpse of wandering cyclically nearly empty shelves at the grocery store - those folks with their fear of covid and desperation to buy food were a harbinger of zombies imho. Or like watching the anger and ire of people being denied the opportunity to buy paint at home depot… prezombie behavior.

Back to an extended grid-down situation: I too read the question as not being a survivalist question, but rather, “how long can my power last?”
Because I haven’t got everything set up yet and The Dark Months arriving early, my production has only been 500-1200W and I require 1.2-2kWh daily. I haven’t been fully recharged in over 10 days; had to run the generator an hour twice. But I’m only running about 20% of my panels so I need to get the setup done and I may not need the gen, and when I get the 2500W of ‘extras’ running I’ll be even better off. I, like most of us, am not lazy but rather prioritize things based on the time available and urgency LOL

The hunting aspect is accurate. It took until late 1980s plus CRP and other conservation programs for deer populations to recover from the Great Depression (and some 1950s-60s field expansions by bulldozing of riparian areas). I am old enough to remember when seeing a deer was a fairly rare thing - in Missouri!

 

[NC_hydro]

The DHS, FBI, IRS, ATF, (alphabet agency of choice) appreciate everyone providing a full description of your entire operation. Definitely a good way to save tax money making their job easier. ??

 

[Browse]

This discussion is bringing back memories of the movie "The Road" (2009). Unforgettable experience.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZbXA4lyCtqoKKF6IDJ89HqPSfwUkHg42

 

[augiedoggy]

Don’t depend on that! Maybe it’s different in less rural areas, cities, etc., but MANY people hunt. Within the law and harvest limits. Around here, though, if an actual major grid-down event occurs (lasting months versus 2-3 weeks) once people start starving and getting desperate even the typically robust population of food/game animals will be decimated in short order in my opinion.
If food supply / transportation / stores get compromised, those capable of feeding themselves won’t be firing a gun (announcing themselves) for very long as attrition sets in- the true resilient will be trapping, snaring, or using other efficient means of acquiring meat that are ‘silent’ and in my opinion that will deplete the wild supply of warm-blooded food in a matter of months. Just my opinion. Just watching dumb people now.
It does amaze me: I know someone with like ten or twelve freezers in their basement, no generator, no solar, no wood heat, and a few hundred canning jars of various vegetables but no flour, rice, or other grains. They think they’re prepared, think they are survivors. If the grid falls down? How long before those freezers melt and spoil?!! How long before that draft basement freezes without heat? In two to four weeks all those canning jars will start to freeze and burst.
I’m not advocating for ignoring situations or for not ‘preparing’ - I’m just saying that for me, currently, being fairly unprepared as far as supplies and stored food, I feel more prepared and secure 1) being aware, 2) having solar, 3) being resourceful, 4) being realistic about my vulnerable state than those folks I mentioned who are totally grid dependent. And I know a number of people that think/act like they do, just with less on hand.
‘Hunting’ is going to be fairly short term if a totally disruptive national or international ‘event’ occurs.

That’s a cultural phenomenon- even in the not too distant past this thinking was the flier. The sixties and seventies essentially codified the foundations of the cultural belief that anything not new is irrelevant.

Think about all the adventure books and stuff like Boy Scouts, the order in classrooms… even the Hardy Boys series and the street-race novels, hot rod magazines, etc (that were a part of ‘my’ youth) and you can see the cultural shift to the idea that the older generations are out of touch and unrealistic. It’s funny: even ‘the hunger games’ - much more current- depicted a kind of respect for the ‘elders’ that the culture does not generally reflect.
My own daughters- 28 and 32- somehow missed certain values I tried to instill as well as not having a practical understanding of our vulnerability to infrastructure systems and what that could lead to; in many aspects they think I am a bit crazy, even with basics like not carrying a debt load for cars or furnishings, etc.

I’m not rose-colored-glasses but that is such a low probability concern- and such an unavoidable outcome should it occur- that I don’t even think about it. You are right: it truly won’t matter.
What worries me is what happens when walmart doesn’t have milk, bread, meat (or toilet paper) on the shelves for weeks at a time. Covid got us a glimpse of wandering cyclically nearly empty shelves at the grocery store - those folks with their fear of covid and desperation to buy food were a harbinger of zombies imho. Or like watching the anger and ire of people being denied the opportunity to buy paint at home depot… prezombie behavior.

Back to an extended grid-down situation: I too read the question as not being a survivalist question, but rather, “how long can my power last?”
Because I haven’t got everything set up yet and The Dark Months arriving early, my production has only been 500-1200W and I require 1.2-2kWh daily. I haven’t been fully recharged in over 10 days; had to run the generator an hour twice. But I’m only running about 20% of my panels so I need to get the setup done and I may not need the gen, and when I get the 2500W of ‘extras’ running I’ll be even better off. I, like most of us, am not lazy but rather prioritize things based on the time available and urgency LOL

When it comes to power I could be self sufficient I only use grid power 4 months a year in the winter now so I would have to make changes like get rid of the salt water reef tank and hot tub... and I still generate more throughout the year than I use even with ac through the whole house all summer. With 31 panels on my roof now, im generating plenty my fireplaces run without power but require gas..I do have a pellet stove also though and my furnace is so old it does not require power. I have multiple lifepo4 and nmc diy packs floating around from things like my golf cart rv and electric riding mower, I could make it work. I have the means to prevent others from taking it also.. I also have a pile of extra panels waiting for future projects and various charge controllers..

My diesel can run on biodeisel with its modifications and I have all the equipment and know how available to do it.

The hunting comment was a joke because with the nuclear fallout I truly wont want to be around if civilization fell.. We would have those few months though before they all had meltdowns.

 

[SilverbackMP]

The hunting comment was a joke because with the nuclear fallout I truly wont want to be around if civilization fell.. We would have those few months though before they all had meltdowns.

Just keep digging deeper. Eventually your offspring will evolve into either morlocks or tall grays.

 

[Crowz]

I still think hunting would be a pretty good option around here for awhile if things went bad. Deer are EVERYWHERE here. I see them every single night. You really have to be careful driving at night around here its so bad. Also you don't see A deer here you see a HERD of deer when you see them. Average herd size is 7 plus which is surprising since I have seen them with that disease that has been going around. Scary seeing 6 foot of snot dragging behind a deer from its nose. Not sure if its dangerous to humans or not so that might be a down side.

 

[Crowz]

Found info on that deer disease I was mentioning :

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)

Classified in an infectious disease group as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) that cause brain degeneration in cervids
like whitetail deer and mule deer. Other members of the deer family like moose and elk are also affected.

Similar to mad cow disease, this disease is sometimes called the "zombie deer disease" by some uninformed media outlets.
It may take months if not years for this prion disease to manifest and it has devastating effects on the animal. This is an always fatal disease.

Symptoms include fever, excessive salivation, loss of coordinated movement, and extreme weight loss. CWD spreads from animal-to-animal contact or animal-to-soil contact. Which is how it has spread easily with captive deer herds. Being the social animals that deer are, the disease is prone to spread quickly in wild deer herds too.

There is no documented evidence that the CWD can be transmitted to humans, but public health officials at places like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and USDA still urge caution eating infected venison. CWD has been found all over the United States and Canada. Cases of CWD have also popped up outside of North America in places like Norway.

Unfortunately, the spread of CWD can continue long after the animal is dead, because the prion can hide out in the lymph nodes, brain and spinal cord, leading to regulations on bringing those parts into many states.

 

[Danke]

. Average herd size is 7 plus which is surprising since I have seen them with that disease that has been going around. Scary seeing 6 foot of snot dragging behind a deer from its nose. Not sure if it’s dangerous to humans or not so that might be a down side.

Try it now while you have access to hospitals, then you’ll know for emergencies.

 

[cs1234]

I have no clue what the symptoms are but I know when the "great panic" set in toilet paper and gold had the same per ounce price

Sh*t gets real fast when you are out of TP and need it.

 

[Supervstech]

I still think hunting would be a pretty good option around here for awhile if things went bad. Deer are EVERYWHERE here. I see them every single night. You really have to be careful driving at night around here its so bad. Also you don't see A deer here you see a HERD of deer when you see them. Average herd size is 7 plus which is surprising since I have seen them with that disease that has been going around. Scary seeing 6 foot of snot dragging behind a deer from its nose. Not sure if its dangerous to humans or not so that might be a down side.

Once hunting starts, they hide...

 

[12VoltInstalls]

There is no documented evidence that the CWD can be transmitted to humans, but public health officials at places like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and USDA still urge caution eating infected venison.

Canada genetically modified mice to have ‘humanized’ mice that they could test. While apparently ‘mice in the wild’ do not contract CWD, humanized mice when presented with cwd prions demonstrated that human transfer is possible. At least it’s a protein not a virus.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Once hunting starts, they hide...

Once desperation survival hunting starts, what we think as ‘hunting’ will not be most the hunting that happens. I’m no expert and I’m not a super-prepper, but there’s plenty that are and they are extremely more competent and knowledgeable than I.
Of the methods I would use, the top choices are silent and virtually guarantee a kill every single time. My assumption is that with my lack of prowess that there are PLENTY of folks that know what I know and so much more. With the precision and efficiency of certain approaches even any rural area with a modest population is going to get cleaned out pretty quickly.
Just my opinion.