Is it possible to protect your Solar System against EMP?

[MurphyGuy]

I am in the country. My peaceful idyllic homestead would turn into a FOB. I got a list of folks based on relationships and skill sets.

Firewood stacked in IBC totes make a dandy hesco barrier replacement. Hoping the tractor still works. Samuel Colt didn’t make men equal, that honor belongs to front end loaders and pallet forks.

ROFLMAO.. I'm chuckling because you sound like me.

I take IBC totes, pull out the plastic tank, then cut off the front and back of the cage leaving only two walls. Then I take the part I cut off and bolt it to the top to hold the walls rigid. We stack firewood in them. Each tote cage holds about a facecord of wood.

My tractor has a bucket and forks. I store the firewood way out back and just bring up four or five pallets to the back porch when it gets cold each year.
While they would certainly provide ballistic protection, I'm not so sure I would want to be behind one if someone was shooting at me with a centerfire rifle. Wood is not THAT great at stopping bullets... I suspect if you shoot at one enough, some will get through.

We store about 10,000 feed bags. They're 30 inches long, 18 wide and 4 inches thick and made of the same material (polypropylene) as regular military sandbags. As a bonus, the printing on them also helps with UV protection. Tested one out in the sun for 4 years and it held up great. I also have a device that fills 8 of them at the same time by using the loader on the tractor. On top of that, we also have a couple hundred open-top style 55 gallon drums.. two staggered rows of those filled with dirt and even a 50bmg has no chance.. I tested it.

Our tractor has no electronics to fail and we store about 400 gallons of diesel (fuel heating oil). I also have about 300 gallons of food grade mineral oil that I collect from the factory that gives me the drums. Each drum has about a gallon or two left in it and I save it. Tractor runs great on the stuff. I mix it 4 parts fuel oil, 1 part mineral oil, and then add a coffee cup of biodiesel for extra lubricity.

Our home is all brick so most rounds short of a 338 aren't going to get through anyhow.

 

[Bluedog225]

Firewood in ibc totes is clever.

 

[Bluedog225]

I need to see a pic of your firewood ibc. If you don’t mind.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I need to see a pic of your firewood ibc. If you don’t mind.

 

[squowse]

Theres a facebook group that seem to be into it. “Solar and wind homesteading” or something similar. Can’t look it up I was booted and blocked for asking if they were preppers.

Do solar panels survive? Charge controller? Batteries? Inverter?

We are probably doomed by fallout from exploded nuclear power plants anyway in the case of emp, but do we have any EMP experts in the house?

 

[Bluedog225]

cool storage. Thanks!

 

[SilverbackMP]

ROFLMAO.. I'm chuckling because you sound like me.

I take IBC totes, pull out the plastic tank, then cut off the front and back of the cage leaving only two walls. Then I take the part I cut off and bolt it to the top to hold the walls rigid. We stack firewood in them. Each tote cage holds about a facecord of wood.

My tractor has a bucket and forks. I store the firewood way out back and just bring up four or five pallets to the back porch when it gets cold each year.
While they would certainly provide ballistic protection, I'm not so sure I would want to be behind one if someone was shooting at me with a centerfire rifle. Wood is not THAT great at stopping bullets... I suspect if you shoot at one enough, some will get through.

We store about 10,000 feed bags. They're 30 inches long, 18 wide and 4 inches thick and made of the same material (polypropylene) as regular military sandbags. As a bonus, the printing on them also helps with UV protection. Tested one out in the sun for 4 years and it held up great. I also have a device that fills 8 of them at the same time by using the loader on the tractor. On top of that, we also have a couple hundred open-top style 55 gallon drums.. two staggered rows of those filled with dirt and even a 50bmg has no chance.. I tested it.

Our tractor has no electronics to fail and we store about 400 gallons of diesel (fuel heating oil). I also have about 300 gallons of food grade mineral oil that I collect from the factory that gives me the drums. Each drum has about a gallon or two left in it and I save it. Tractor runs great on the stuff. I mix it 4 parts fuel oil, 1 part mineral oil, and then add a coffee cup of biodiesel for extra lubricity.

Our home is all brick so most rounds short of a 338 aren't going to get through anyhow.

I figured I’d berm the wood stacks with clay/top soil but I like the feed sack idea.

I’m doing a similar berm with my propanes tanks and (future) diesel tanks but am using big blocks (current project).

But I don’t want something as drastic along the road/gates right now. I don’t want it looking like a Branch Davidian compound…but have the ability to convert into one in case it’s ever needed.

Ideally, I might end up adding a nice English garden style brick wall…at least at the main gate areas. Which could be easily bermed with clay if the need ever comes.

I really need to acquire a big miniex or a 419 Unimog. I missed out when DRMO was selling off most of the inventory and prices were cheap.

 

[SilverbackMP]

cool storage. Thanks!

Also check out Outdoors with the Morgan’s YouTube and search for IBC totes.

 

[Supervstech]

SO GUYS I FOUND THIS thread before posting a new one. if it's a hijack let me know but i don't think so.
Here we are 2-11-23. forget the media, those balloons are likely doing surface contour measurements or collecting low level tech signals that don't go far. Pretty sure everything else can be done from satellites.
So that increases the likelihood of EMP (the surface contour stuff is for that, can't remember the technical term).
An EMP may be a long shot, but it's certainly not a c-theory in view of the globe right now. So like one would for lightening or wind, I would like to at least try and protect what I can.
So in that crazy world would keeping extra diodes in a 'safe" place be adequate for the panels? I can't find info (yet) anywhere that clarifies how hot the (super short) pulse is, regarding over voltaging a chip or resistor, or erasing eproms, or simply physical "overcurrent bloom" for lack of the correct term.
Here is a "thoughts" list any solutions or additions? thanks in advance.
panels- not effected except for maybe diodes?
inverters and or charge controllers- faraday cages- the lines in and out are still a problem
batteries- can we jump the internal BMS components?
microinverters- spares/, shielding?

this is a real can of worms ya know?
It depends who you are but it almost is like you need to start with a big shielded room. years ago i was in one of those to effect some repairs-they really do look like in that mel gibson will smith gene hackman movie

You do know solar panels ARE diodes, right?

 

[Supervstech]

ROFLMAO.. I'm chuckling because you sound like me.

I take IBC totes, pull out the plastic tank, then cut off the front and back of the cage leaving only two walls. Then I take the part I cut off and bolt it to the top to hold the walls rigid. We stack firewood in them. Each tote cage holds about a facecord of wood.

My tractor has a bucket and forks. I store the firewood way out back and just bring up four or five pallets to the back porch when it gets cold each year.
While they would certainly provide ballistic protection, I'm not so sure I would want to be behind one if someone was shooting at me with a centerfire rifle. Wood is not THAT great at stopping bullets... I suspect if you shoot at one enough, some will get through.

We store about 10,000 feed bags. They're 30 inches long, 18 wide and 4 inches thick and made of the same material (polypropylene) as regular military sandbags. As a bonus, the printing on them also helps with UV protection. Tested one out in the sun for 4 years and it held up great. I also have a device that fills 8 of them at the same time by using the loader on the tractor. On top of that, we also have a couple hundred open-top style 55 gallon drums.. two staggered rows of those filled with dirt and even a 50bmg has no chance.. I tested it.

Our tractor has no electronics to fail and we store about 400 gallons of diesel (fuel heating oil). I also have about 300 gallons of food grade mineral oil that I collect from the factory that gives me the drums. Each drum has about a gallon or two left in it and I save it. Tractor runs great on the stuff. I mix it 4 parts fuel oil, 1 part mineral oil, and then add a coffee cup of biodiesel for extra lubricity.

Our home is all brick so most rounds short of a 338 aren't going to get through anyhow.

All brick... as in, cinderblock? 2x4 brick over wood frame? Whats the actual construction? Brick isnt very good at stopping many calibres of rifle rounds... .223 and up go right through...

 

[Hedges]

And EMP generator, no matter how big, isn't going to kill all the equipment in the country.
Things up close could get sufficient energy to kill them.
Various forms of radiation can turn on semiconductors, e.g. the H bridge in an inverter, so battery burns it out. If this happens, you aren't going to be around to worry about it.
At a great distance, like the idea of a high-altitude nuke near Canadian border taking out our power grid, it is a < 1 Hz wave driving basically DC in power lines. One amp would be enough. It saturates transformers, so our grid burns them out.

Your PV system at a distance probably won't be affected. Stored equipment certainly won't.

CME, now that could be another story. Strong, and blanketing the Earth. Don't think it has any high-frequency to affect small devices, however, just long lines.

 

[Hedges]

You do know solar panels ARE diodes, right?

And bypass diodes make back to back diodes, which protects against over-voltage. But only if fast enough, which these may not be.
Given such clamping protection, next question is whether enough energy is present to damage. Probably needs to be > 200W/m^2 absorbed.

 

[Hedges]

All brick... as in, cinderblock? 2x4 brick over wood frame? Whats the actual construction? Brick isnt very good at stopping many calibres of rifle rounds... .223 and up go right through...

Layer of gravel, can be bonded with tar or rubber (flammable), maybe silicone would be better.
This was effective armor on the sides of ships.

 

[Hedges]

Faraday cage wall in close proximity to your electronics won't protect it so well.

Consider putting a THICK layer of dielectric material (cardboard, styrofoam ...) around your electronics before the metal shield.
(protect against ESD from things like styrofoam.)

Thick as in 2x the longest wavelength of concern.

Conductive shielding does not block electromagnetic fields. Rather, the impinging field induces a circulating current, which radiates a field that propagates in all directions (with some radiation pattern, as an antenna). This is similar to a wavefront in water hitting a piling, or a shoreline. Interesting thing about a row of pilings is that each radiates in a circular pattern, but row of them sums to look like a flat surface but percentage reflection and percentage transmission. That is similar to conductive shield. The radiated field then interacts with the incoming wave, causing interference patterns. The net sum includes partial cancellation of field on opposite side and reflected wave on side of source.

The issue is, circulating currents have dimensions related to wavelength. A close object will experience inductive coupling and also have circulating currents (which is what you are trying to prevent.) This effect is greatly reduced after two wavelengths.

Does Shielding "Electrically" shield "Magnetically" too?

I know it sounds like a newbie question but I can't wrap my mind around it. An electromagnetic field is electric + magnetic field. So this means that when shielding an equipment offensively, for e...

electronics.stackexchange.com

Scroll down to "How it Works":

Electromagnetic shielding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bones1]

These guys are into it https://shop.faradaydefense.com

 

[OffGridForGood]

but a 5kW pallet of spare solar panels is obviously too big, so they are first wrapped in plastic, then foil.

Wow! I admire your self discipline; If I had 5kW of 'Spare' panels, I would be unable to help myself, I would install them.{I am weak!}
Interesting thread, following along.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Wow! I admire your self discipline; If I had 5kW of 'Spare' panels, I would be unable to help myself, I would install them.{I am weak!}
Interesting thread, following along.

We already have so much solar power I don't know what to do with it all. Our 12kW array easily powers the house and provides electric heat during the winter.

Solar panels are stupidly cheap for what they return.

As it is now, I think most of the cost of a solar system is wrapped up in copper wiring and ground mount structure stuff. Even the inverters have come down in price.

 

[OffGridForGood]

cool storage. Thanks!

I didn't have a source for IBC so used pallets, add 2x sides with heavy mesh, and a plywood back to hold them rigid. like others, store them away from the house but move them up as winter sets in, they work awesome, and reduce how many times ecch piece needs to be handled.

 

[OffGridForGood]

We already have so much solar power I don't know what to do with it all.

I hope to get to that stage one day!
For now, any expansion to my system is getting installed! LOL.
I can imagine having a smaller system set aside and protected, as a back up. You got me thinking about it I admit!

 

[MurphyGuy]

I didn't have a source for IBC so used pallets, add 2x sides with heavy mesh, and a plywood back to hold them rigid. like others, store them away from the house but move them up as winter sets in, they work awesome, and reduce how many times ecch piece needs to be handled.

I tried the wood construction.. lasted for 5 years, which isn't bad, but with the price of wood these days it just doesn't make sense when I can get IBC totes for free all day long.

So here's what you do... Get on google earth and zoom into the industrial parks around your area.. Look in the back yards of the buildings and if they have a problem disposing of totes, you'll see rows and stacks of them. The tell tale sign is a white squarish blob with a black or red dot in the middle. (that's the cap)

Once you identify who has them, go say hello and tell them what you're doing.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I hope to get to that stage one day!
For now, any expansion to my system is getting installed! LOL.
I can imagine having a smaller system set aside and protected, as a back up. You got me thinking about it I admit!

Yup.. we keep a Radian 8048 inverter behind 3 layers of Faraday cage along with the Mate3 interface and FlexMax80 charge controller. I also keep a 2000 watt GoPower! inverter in there, a 600 watt unit, and anything else I think I might need to set power up again.

I will probably never need the stuff, but like any insurance policy, sometimes you throw down a bet and win, sometimes you lose.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I tried the wood construction.. lasted for 5 years, which isn't bad, but with the price of wood these days it just doesn't make sense when I can get IBC totes for free all day long.

So here's what you do... Get on google earth and zoom into the industrial parks around your area.. Look in the back yards of the buildings and if they have a problem disposing of totes, you'll see rows and stacks of them. The tell tale sign is a white squarish blob with a black or red dot in the middle. (that's the cap)

Once you identify who has them, go say hello and tell them what you're doing.

HA HA HA - love it, great suggestion.
my wood totes are 20 years old, going strong, and cost nearly nothing for me, I have a band saw mill and rough cut the 2x lumber from my own trees, the rest I got from my work, free for the cost of picking it up. Alway the best solution! I process the firewood in a large covered area in the woods, and the totes are never in rain. Some of the first ones I put some wood preservative on the bases, but didn't need to. Siting on concrete floor under a roof they will last.
Years ago I tried to get the IBC but they seemed to have a deposit on them in this area, no-one would give them away, only if you paid for them! Maybe that has changed over time, but for me I have all the totes (thats what I call them) I need for my set up.
I built the totes 7 feet tall, so I can walk through them when set in rows. - The trick for this set up is to remove the backs as you go, and line up the totes. During the winter as a tote is empty, I can walk right through it to access the wood in the one right behind it. Works for my set up, I burn 5 full cords per winter (well maybe not this winter! been too warm) but normally I go through 15 totes, which I arrange in three rows of five. I don't bother moving empty ones during the winter, just in Spring.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Yup.. we keep a Radian 8048 inverter behind 3 layers of Faraday cage along with the Mate3 interface and FlexMax80 charge controller. I also keep a 2000 watt GoPower! inverter in there, a 600 watt unit, and anything else I think I might need to set power up again.

I will probably never need the stuff, but like any insurance policy, sometimes you throw down a bet and win, sometimes you lose.

Yup, and we can choose how much insurance to buy, I have a MPP 2724 that is very handy around the homestead. I can run with one or two PV panels and a DIY 24vDC LiFePO4 making it very easy to move around. I plan to use it in the green house and in summer for the RV camping. If I did like you have, and made a dedicated place to store it where it is protected, then I could have some level of "insurance" for just the cost of the layers. Can't really see any reason NOT to do it!

 

[Bluedog225]

That's smart. Put them behind two layers of Faraday cage to be sure.

I keep an entire 5kW system behind three layers of steel, aluminum, aluminum, for a total attenuation of about -110db. We bought an OutBack Radian 8048, Outback charge controller, Mate3 programmer, and an extra 20 solar panels. All wrapped up along with a bunch of other stuff.

Its an insurance policy.

In practical terms, is that a 55 gallon drum then layers of aluminum foil and cardboard? I’m trying not to start from scratch. Thanks.

 

[Orca66]

We don't have any spares for the big transformers and it takes 2 years to build one.

Also, CME would not be as bad as an EMP. CME only destroys things connected to the grid, whereas an EMP not only destroys things connected to the grid, it will also destroy things that are not connected to the grid.

After a CME, your generator will still work, your car will still work, your laptop will still work, tractors, utility vehicles, and everything else will still work. But an EMP will take out almost everything with a chip. Some cars will survive due to the natu of their computer systems from the vehicle's ignition system, but most other electronics will be fried, connected to the grid or not.

In practical terms, is that a 55 gallon drum then layers of aluminum foil and cardboard? I’m trying not to start from scratch. Thanks.