Is it possible to protect your Solar System against EMP?

[MurphyGuy]

Well a EMP attack is similar to a high class solar flare so it depends on the amount of magnetic radiation the best shield is a lead unless you want to construct a Faraday cage and can be smart but hard to do post build.

An EMP attack has almost nothing in common with a CME produced from a solar flare. They have about as much in common as a high pressure fire hose and a tsunami. Yes, its still water doing the damage, but they are very different.

The best shield is not lead, not even remotely close. For an EMP attack, the best shielding is silver, but since that stuff is ridiculously expensive, the 2nd best is copper, and not far behind copper is aluminum. That said, none of it is really important as a simple steel enclosure that is properly sealed will do the job.

But lead? What made you come up with that? Lead is used to shield from radiological exposures like x-rays, gamma and neutrons, and even then, the only reason to lead is when physical space is a concern. When it comes to ionizing radiation, every material has what is called a "halving thickness". Having Thickness (HT) is defined as the amount of material needed to cut the radiation in half. A half inch of lead, or an inch of steel, or 2.5 inches of concrete, or even a foot of dense wood, all provide about the same level or gamma attenuation.

 

[Paul_R]

Nuclear power plants don't explode. Sure, radiation can get out but not by means of an EMP producing explosion.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Do solar panels survive? Charge controller? Batteries? Inverter?

We are probably doomed by fallout from exploded nuclear power plants anyway in the case of emp, but do we have any EMP experts in the house?

There has been some testing done with artificial EMP generators that indicate a solar panel that isn't being used should survive, but solar panels that are in use my lose up to 1/2 of their output.

Your charge controller will be toast, your inverter will be toast, but your battery won't care unless it's a lithium battery and has a BMS, in which case, while the battery will probably be fine, the BMS is likely toast.

Nuclear power plants will probably not explode, it is more likely they will melt down. Any explosion will be relatively small and the radioactive elements they spew out will usually be limited to a small geographical area of 30 to 50 miles. Chernobyl was a special case, the Japan reactor is more typical of what would happen.

Unless you live next to a nuclear power plant, your biggest worry will be your neighbor down the street who has 4 hungry young children and no way to feed them.

 

[Maitake]

MurhpyGuy has it right.......although the hungry neighbor thing hasn't played out over time. Hungry people don't go from decent people to "Ima kill you for food". For the most part history shows they start walking until they find food or die. Yes expect property crime for a while until they walk along or fall over.
NEMP and CME are as different electronically speaking as you can get.
CME wont affect any of your solar stuff even iff it's on line during the event.
NEMP, well let's hope that's not gonna happen, no good answers unless your goung full groundhog prep.

 

[Bluedog225]

Yeah. But those examples are not from a world where people loot en masse if the power goes out for a few days.

 

[Hauls Assington]

There has been some testing done with artificial EMP generators that indicate a solar panel that isn't being used should survive, but solar panels that are in use my lose up to 1/2 of their output.

Your charge controller will be toast, your inverter will be toast, but your battery won't care unless it's a lithium battery and has a BMS, in which case, while the battery will probably be fine, the BMS is likely toast.

Nuclear power plants will probably not explode, it is more likely they will melt down. Any explosion will be relatively small and the radioactive elements they spew out will usually be limited to a small geographical area of 30 to 50 miles. Chernobyl was a special case, the Japan reactor is more typical of what would happen.

Unless you live next to a nuclear power plant, your biggest worry will be your neighbor down the street who has 4 hungry young children and no way to feed them.

These are word of wisdom and great info, thanks!

 

[Hauls Assington]

MurhpyGuy has it right.......although the hungry neighbor thing hasn't played out over time. Hungry people don't go from decent people to "Ima kill you for food". For the most part history shows they start walking until they find food or die. Yes expect property crime for a while until they walk along or fall over.
NEMP and CME are as different electronically speaking as you can get.
CME wont affect any of your solar stuff even iff it's on line during the event.
NEMP, well let's hope that's not gonna happen, no good answers unless your goung full groundhog prep.

Interesting, I was under the impression that something like the Carrington event would be the exact same effect as NEMP.

 

[T-486 Ashepoo]

I prep by properly storing all of my old system components. I have several midnite classics and inverters from my pre-AIO system days.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

That is what I am saying, if there is a huge EMP, the nuclear power plants will eventually all fukushima, and there would be a hideous amout of radiation everywhere. Their cooling systems would fail.

So the designers of Nuclear power plants didn’t take into account an EMP attack?

No Shielding or faraday cage around emergency equipment?

Seems pretty short sighted.

 

[T-486 Ashepoo]

Not so much the required shielding as it is running a nuclear plant off-grid. An EMP event would impact all supply chains. That means no fuel for generators that provide electricity for water pumps. The military would prioritize fuel if available, but it could be a problem after the initial fuel runs out.

I left the utility industry in 2016 and nuclear in 2014. There were several Fukushima mandates going on at the time. I don't have the details but can report back on what I find. These may or may not address an EMP event.

 

[MurphyGuy]

MurhpyGuy has it right.......although the hungry neighbor thing hasn't played out over time. Hungry people don't go from decent people to "Ima kill you for food". For the most part history shows they start walking until they find food or die. Yes expect property crime for a while until they walk along or fall over.
NEMP and CME are as different electronically speaking as you can get.
CME wont affect any of your solar stuff even iff it's on line during the event.
NEMP, well let's hope that's not gonna happen, no good answers unless your goung full groundhog prep.

I read a blog from an American who traveled to Venezuela to visit his brother and brother's family. This was during the food shortage a couple years ago.
While he was there, an old lady's cat was seen in a window by someone walking down the street. A couple hours later, a gang showed up and dragged the old lady out of her house and ransacked the place.

They thought that she had food, because if she still had a cat and hadn't eaten it yet, there must be food in the house.

I can't verify the story but the blog was just about the guy's travels.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I prep by properly storing all of my old system components. I have several midnite classics and inverters from my pre-AIO system days.

That's smart. Put them behind two layers of Faraday cage to be sure.

I keep an entire 5kW system behind three layers of steel, aluminum, aluminum, for a total attenuation of about -110db. We bought an OutBack Radian 8048, Outback charge controller, Mate3 programmer, and an extra 20 solar panels. All wrapped up along with a bunch of other stuff.

Its an insurance policy.

 

[MurphyGuy]

So the designers of Nuclear power plants didn’t take into account an EMP attack?

No Shielding or faraday cage around emergency equipment?

Seems pretty short sighted.

They claim they can get the reactors cooled down enough with the on-site emergency fuel. I believe they prevent problems if the grid problem is a short lived event lasting a week or two. Beyond that though, even the cooling pools for spent rods would start to boil off.

We keep a supply of IoStat pills as well as a military grade radiological meter and a civilian version made in the USA.

I have a nuclear power plant about 80 miles down wind of me, and one on the other side of Michigan (upwind) 175+ miles away. I don't think we would be affected by any severe fallout even in a worst case scenario.

 

[Maitake]

They thought that she had food, because if she still had a cat and hadn't eaten it yet, there must be food in the house.

My dislike of cats seems totally justified now...

 

[kanelr]

SO GUYS I FOUND THIS thread before posting a new one. if it's a hijack let me know but i don't think so.
Here we are 2-11-23. forget the media, those balloons are likely doing surface contour measurements or collecting low level tech signals that don't go far. Pretty sure everything else can be done from satellites.
So that increases the likelihood of EMP (the surface contour stuff is for that, can't remember the technical term).
An EMP may be a long shot, but it's certainly not a c-theory in view of the globe right now. So like one would for lightening or wind, I would like to at least try and protect what I can.
So in that crazy world would keeping extra diodes in a 'safe" place be adequate for the panels? I can't find info (yet) anywhere that clarifies how hot the (super short) pulse is, regarding over voltaging a chip or resistor, or erasing eproms, or simply physical "overcurrent bloom" for lack of the correct term.
Here is a "thoughts" list any solutions or additions? thanks in advance.
panels- not effected except for maybe diodes?
inverters and or charge controllers- faraday cages- the lines in and out are still a problem
batteries- can we jump the internal BMS components?
microinverters- spares/, shielding?

this is a real can of worms ya know?
It depends who you are but it almost is like you need to start with a big shielded room. years ago i was in one of those to effect some repairs-they really do look like in that mel gibson will smith gene hackman movie

 

[bones1]

That's smart. Put them behind two layers of Faraday cage to be sure.

I keep an entire 5kW system behind three layers of steel, aluminum, aluminum, for a total attenuation of about -110db. We bought an OutBack Radian 8048, Outback charge controller, Mate3 programmer, and an extra 20 solar panels. All wrapped up along with a bunch of other stuff.

Its an insurance policy.

Did you build a big metal box or wrap equipment in foil? Looking for ideas on how to achieve this.

 

[Quattrohead]

If you know there is a blast coming even a lightning storm then you should disconnect all wires from your equipment and if you're super worried, short the input output data terminals etc to reduce or eliminate voltage spikes on your equipment. Obviously don't try this with your batteries and your solar panels cuz that's going to get really interesting.

 

[Hedges]

The other way to say this is No. You can not have a functioning solar system and expect it to survive an EMP.

Why not?

Up close EMP, like the Doomsday plane experiencing a near miss, delivers high frequency energy. So it is shielded (things like ITO on windows) and tested with an EMP generator.

Any self-respecting prepper will be far from ground zero, won't be exposed to much of that high frequency. What he will see is the extremely low frequency, < 60 Hz, < 1 Hz that blankets the U.S.

Very low frequencies induce low frequency current in power lines, near DC so they saturate power transformers, which blow up if they don't have fused primaries.

Your PV array won't pick up so much energy, not being miles long. And they don't go to a transformer. Only if the energy overwhelms surge arrestors will you have a problem.

Power lines are "twisted"; as you drive down the road you'll notice the 3 wires periodically changing places. That will reduce differential mode (but not common mode.) You could do the same to your PV array, by selecting order of panel connections to balance area on left and right hand side, loop of wire/panels crossing back an forth.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Did you build a big metal box or wrap equipment in foil? Looking for ideas on how to achieve this.

Both.
I have three metal Faraday cages.. Most items fit into those three, but a 5kW pallet of spare solar panels is obviously too big, so they are first wrapped in plastic, then foil.

Aluminum foils makes for an excellent Faraday cage if you are neat about wrapping it and if you make sure you generously overlap the foil and tape all seams smoothly.

My friend wanted to protect his generator so we made him a foam box for it. We used that 3/4 inch foam board insulation stuff, glued the panels together, then wrapped it up in foil.

 

[bones1]

Excellent ideas, thanks. Do you think those aluminized-looking emergency blankets would work, maybe they are mylar instead of aluminum.