diy solar

diy solar

LTO battery fire

I am an auto buff - by other addiction er hobby, and on the car forums I have seen quite a lot of chat about LTO - from Honda Plug-in hybrids IIRC. They have often talked about doing a manual balance a few times per year "if needed" or checking the balance every few months. This was why I asked the OP if they 'needed' 10-amp balance - since it didn't seem to add up with what I have read over the last few years in the automotive area.


agree.

Some proper connections, bus bars and cases would be a great start. He said five packs - so this was not some spur of the moment set up, just to test an idea for a few days, this was a build. Hope he comes back and learns something from the more experienced among the forum.

I have to wonder if the voltage range for those LTP allowed his current to climb as the voltage dropped down lower and lower, I can imagine from the comments about "pushing the system to the limit" could mean the voltage dropped to sub-48v and the amperage climbed to maintain the power output increasing heating at a poor connection leading to the arc and cell exploding. Too bad there wasn't a camera set up to record the whole event, we could have seen what happened. I should put a cheap aftermarket dash-cam in my solar room, to watch and record in a loop what is going on in there!
If as you say, if he replaces the blown cell, what are the other changes this set up needs to be safe(er):
Proper bus bars and cell holders,
proper sensor wires and ring terminals for the BMS leads,
metal cases for each pack,
Heat and smoke detectors in the vacinity - alarm in the house and link to his phone,
some relays to allow remote disconnect of the ESS ?

I would be interested to know what the rest of the system set up looks like, and what loads are being applied.
Now I know what I’ll do with my spare Nest cameras. The motion detector will definitely see something change (flash, flame or smoke) and send an alert to my phone. if I set sensitivity to max. Already have house network smoke and heat detectors above(not internet). That would definitely wake the house and 99% of the time an adult is there.

List to do today, tidy up garage, order Co2 extinguisher, check cell torque, set out new glue traps and mount Nest cameras.
 
I don't know enough about fire extinguishers, but I would assume that any extinguisher would be acceptable because you are just trying to prevent the fire from spreading. Putting out a lithium fire is wasted effort. If this is the case, the $40 extinguisher I got online that is hanging on the wall next to my batteries should be perfectly acceptable

Can anyone tell me if this is wrong thinking?
 
Dude. I've lived through Outback, Solark and EG4 inverters.
This is not my first rodeo.

This was a test rack that I built myself by hand and it behaved beautifully for four years. I've intentionally ran it balls out 100% charge to discharge daily.

I got every dollar out of what little I invested.

So go give your unsolicited advice to some other thread.
You are not needed here.
four years balls out test is a long test, glad every one is ok
 
Just keep in mind that when using a CO2 unit to get to fresh air quickly to avoid suffocating.
 
Just keep in mind that when using a CO2 unit to get to fresh air quickly to avoid suffocating
Also NMC when overheated produces its own oxygen so using any extinguisher which relies on smothering will be of no use. Only lots of water to cool the overheating will stop that fire
 
Last edited:
@rodrick, can I ask which CO2 extinguisher you use? I am shopping around for black friday deals on CO2 extinguishers, but I am finding most are in the $400 to $500 dollar range.

I bought Ansul Clean Guard. Had considered Halotron, but effective concentration and LC50 (concentration lethal to 50% of rats tested) changed my mind.
Note that any of these extinguishing agents with fluorine can make nasty chemicals depending on the temperatures they experience, so exit and ventilate the room.


This is because I have expensive electronic test equipment as well.
If you've just got a low cost inverter (some priced less than these extinguishers!) other options make more sense.

I don't know enough about fire extinguishers, but I would assume that any extinguisher would be acceptable because you are just trying to prevent the fire from spreading. Putting out a lithium fire is wasted effort. If this is the case, the $40 extinguisher I got online that is hanging on the wall next to my batteries should be perfectly acceptable

Can anyone tell me if this is wrong thinking?

Depends on what else is in the vicinity.

I sat on a failure analysis team after a contractor grabbed a dry chemical extinguisher ran ran into a computer room to put out an electrical fire. $Millions of of equipment destroyed. Simply turning off power was all that was required to stop FR4 PC board from burning, due to about 1kW of red hot glowing metal (shield shorted across 5V 200A power supply.) The purpose of the analysis was to determine who's material was responsible for starting the fire. (combination of design flaw and defect.)
 
I don't know enough about fire extinguishers, but I would assume that any extinguisher would be acceptable because you are just trying to prevent the fire from spreading. Putting out a lithium fire is wasted effort.
I'd vote more for inherent safety rather than trying to put out fire in adjacent materials: keep combustibles away from an ignition/fuel/oxidizer boxed together. The fire extinguisher will put out a fire in wood... but it will likely re-ignite almost immediately if the source heat is not addressed.
 
In addition to an abc extinguisher, I keep an H2O extinguisher and an old fashioned big bucket of sand.
 
I found a company out of Niagra Falls that manufactures a paint that has been shown to dramatically reduce the ignition potential. Not cheap
 
The take home message for me is to double check your system connections. A dc arc fault near a combustible material is not a good idea. Also another example of benefits of properly sized fuses and breakers.
 
@rodrick, can I ask which CO2 extinguisher you use? I am shopping around for black friday deals on CO2 extinguishers, but I am finding most are in the $400 to $500 dollar range.
I am running amerex 15 pound units when I got them about 2 years ago I think it was about $300 each the local hardware store cut me a deal because I bought 8

they are expensive but the combines and tractors have so much electronics in them now days setting off a dry chem in the cab could cause years of headaches and 10s of thousands of dollars so the cost of the extinguisher is not that much in comparison
 
I have a cart on wheels that will have an Anderson connector with a ring to pull for quick disconnect. Considering having a welding blanket draped over the rack (or possibly just the back so easily pulled over front too?). Might buy a few minutes to move the rack or maybe a decent fire solution?

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this for an LiFePO4 rack?


Possibly a 18"x24"carbon mat for under each 16S battery:


Thinking these would be a well spent $100.
 
I have a cart on wheels that will have an Anderson connector with a ring to pull for quick disconnect. Considering having a welding blanket draped over the rack (or possibly just the back so easily pulled over front too?). Might buy a few minutes to move the rack or maybe a decent fire solution?

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this for an LiFePO4 rack?


Possibly a 18"x24"carbon mat for under each 16S battery:


Thinking these would be a well spent $100.
Is the carbon mat conducive and must not contact the busses?
 
Back
Top