Need sanity check on Victron Orion-Tr + Smart Shunt wiring please

[amartin]

Hello, I'm still a newbie and drinking from the firehose. I'm also now on a timecrunch for the start of my project and since I can no longer procrastinate it's time to dive in head first. General idea is a 12v LFP house battery inside the truck cab + Victron Orion-Tr to charge at 30A + Victron Smart Shunt to watch my loads (and for the future). LFP battery will likely be an SOK 100Ah for now only because I'm out of time - not terrible but not what I wanted, future plans will be something different.

Looking to get a sanity check on my wiring plan so I don't have a bad bad day. Also so I don't burn down my truck. Made a quick wiring diagram below - does this look correct? I may have missed adding some fuses/breakers on the 12v ports/loads and will probably add those in the actual build.

Thanks for any help to point me in the right direction!

Update 10/29/22: I built it and it works!! Skip to post #20 to read more. Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[FilterGuy]

Looks ok to me

 

[amartin]

Looks ok to me

Thanks! I posted over on the Victron forum and got some clarification. My original drawing was less than precise because I'm learning & playing with Visio, but in my head I had the right idea for real-world install. Cleaned up the drawing and posting back here as well in case it helps someone in the future. Appreciate having other pairs of eyes on this!

 

[FilterGuy]

Took a moment to see the difference.... Yes I missed that before.

The primary battery to the smart shunt will be the SOK so it should have the Bbat+ The starter should have the Aux.

 

[amartin]

Took a moment to see the difference.... Yes I missed that before.

The primary battery to the smart shunt will be the SOK so it should have the Bbat+ The starter should have the Aux.

D'oh good catch! Serves me right for making wiring diagrams late at night! I'll correct my drawing later but for now it's off to bed.

 

[amartin]

Well it's hard to go to bed when you are making progress....but I'm happy I have the main structure ironed out so I can order the bulk of supplies tomorrow. Drawing v0.3 completed. Lesson learned tonight: Visio kinda sucks.

 

[B-ManFX4]

Just curious - why a fuse and a circuit breaker to the Orion? Are you using the circuit breaker as a switch? It would be better to use a switch as a switch, especially if the circuit breaker is one of the cheap Chinese units. BTDT.

 

[mikefitz]

Need small 1A inline fuse in the aux and V bat cables to the smart snunt at the battery positives.

Tri smart needs a 60A fuse on its output cable at the positive buss bar.

Needs fuse for Iceco, 15A at positive buss bar.

Master fuse at SOK battery positive missing, needs MRBF as minimum type ( 10,000 A withstand)

 

[chrisski]

Couple of comments.

I’m not a fan of the cigarette lighter connetor for 12 volt DC. I prefer the smaller 45 amp Anderson Powerpole connectors. If the Iceco never leaves the circuit, I’d hardwire it.

The SB50 Anderson plug is nice, and if the battery gets taken in and out a lot, that’s good, but if not, I’d skip it.

The Victron Smart shunt is nice, but you may make do with a much cheaper AiLi Shint off Ali Baba or Amazon. No Bluetooth, but you could get two for less than one Victron shunt.

I use Victron, and I’ve found they tend to size there terminals to the wire size. So the 30 amp charger probablyonly takes a 10 AWG wire, which if the run is quite long it’d be nice to have thicker wire for voltage loss. There’s reducers you can get to crimp on the end if thatis the case.

 

[amartin]

Just curious - why a fuse and a circuit breaker to the Orion? Are you using the circuit breaker as a switch? It would be better to use a switch as a switch, especially if the circuit breaker is one of the cheap Chinese units. BTDT.

I put the image of the circuit breaker there mostly to remind myself to install some type of switch/cutoff. Likely I used that image because it was the first thing I put into MS Visio, not neccesarily because it's the best or correct item for the job. Good to point out that a switch would be better. The other reason is that I may have subconsciously put it there because I have a custom power panel under the hood with cutouts pre made for holding one of these Eaton/BlueSea style circuit breakers. Point is taken and rest assured in the real-world install it will be adressed.

Need small 1A inline fuse in the aux and V bat cables to the smart snunt at the battery positives.

Tri smart needs a 60A fuse on its output cable at the positive buss bar.

Needs fuse for Iceco, 15A at positive buss bar.

Master fuse at SOK battery positive missing, needs MRBF as minimum type ( 10,000 A withstand)

Looks like I need to get even more detailed on the drawing lol. Good points and fuses will be added.

Couple of comments.

I’m not a fan of the cigarette lighter connetor for 12 volt DC. I prefer the smaller 45 amp Anderson Powerpole connectors. If the Iceco never leaves the circuit, I’d hardwire it.

The SB50 Anderson plug is nice, and if the battery gets taken in and out a lot, that’s good, but if not, I’d skip it.

The Victron Smart shunt is nice, but you may make do with a much cheaper AiLi Shint off Ali Baba or Amazon. No Bluetooth, but you could get two for less than one Victron shunt.

I use Victron, and I’ve found they tend to size there terminals to the wire size. So the 30 amp charger probablyonly takes a 10 AWG wire, which if the run is quite long it’d be nice to have thicker wire for voltage loss. There’s reducers you can get to crimp on the end if thatis the case.

All good points and I appreciate them!

Cigarette lighter style connector in the picture is a special Dometic-brand 2 port item. The left port has a screw lock mechanism to more positively affix the plug. I was unaware of the 45A Anderson powerpole connector so thanks for sharing that, I like the look of that better already.

SB50 is desired for now because I do plan to remove it / have the ability to remove it frequently. In the future once I iron out some battery woes that may go away.

Good point on the Victron being spendy. I'm sticking with it because I can get it quickly from Current Connected and it's a reputable vendor, and because I'm going with Victron for everything else so I only have to load one app on my phone. Personal preference.

As of now I plan to run 6 AWG from the starter battery to the Orion mounted in my back seat over a run of ~15 feet which should be fine. Since all the other runs will be very short near the Orion/busbars/battery I'm planning to use the same 6 AWG which by the charts is likely overkill but won't hurt anything. Of course this all depends if I can actually source 6 AWG on the short timeline as it seems harder to find than the more common 4 or 8 (which neither are ideal/optimal for different reasons). I have a few local shops that I should be able to check today, otherwise it will be ordered by tomorrow online.

 

[FilterGuy]

I put the image of the circuit breaker there mostly to remind myself to install some type of switch/cutoff.

Now that someone pointed out fuses I realize there are no fuses on the house battery side of things.



Note: If you use 6AWG all the way from the Orion, to the busbar, through the Anderson connector, and to the house battery, the fuse on the line from the busbar to the Orion can be removed.

BTW: I believe there are in-line 1A fuses in the sense wires that are supplied with the smart shunt

 

[amartin]

Now that someone pointed out fuses I realize there are no fuses on the house battery side of things.


Note: If you use 6AWG all the way from the Orion, to the busbar, through the Anderson connector, and to the house battery, the fuse on the line from the busbar to the Orion can be removed.

BTW: I believe there are in-line 1A fuses in the sense wires that are supplied with the smart shunt

Went back and tried to get even more specific without going too nuts. Yes you are correct, there are inline fuses on the sense wires supplied with the Smart Shunt; I have added them in the image, and I should note the Aux wire to starter battery probably will get left off for now (I have something else to monitor it anyways). I am also now changing to a Blue Sea 5025 fuse block (pending availability on short notice so this might get subbed) to simplify the accessory side wiring. 12V DC cigarette-lighter style plugs are gone for now but might get added back later as this evolves. For now fridge is my main priority.

I am still debating whether or not to put in a battery cutoff switch between the + bus bar and house battery, as well as adding the circuit breaker or a battery cutoff switch. Right now I'm leaning towards not having it because the Anderson plug will be easily within reach for a quick disconnect, and turning off the Orion can be done in the app. Neither is ideal or perfect but my enemy is time and the reality is this may get omitted until later refinements.

Shopping has commenced and I wait impatiently for FedEx/UPS to show up. One item not shown here is a Temco TH0006 crimper and I might be the most excited just for that new tool. Another big order (for me at least) with Curent Connected; shout-out to Jarrett for great customer service on the phone. Orion coming from Battle Born because they had inventory and good price. Cooler will arrive first and get tested on AC at home to verify power draw via an old Kill-a-watt I have laying around.

My current motto for the build: "With a little reckless spending and mental distress, you too can pull this off in about a weeks time!"

 

[Ranger Rick]

Went back and tried to get even more specific without going too nuts. Yes you are correct, there are inline fuses on the sense wires supplied with the Smart Shunt; I have added them in the image, and I should note the Aux wire to starter battery probably will get left off for now (I have something else to monitor it anyways). I am also now changing to a Blue Sea 5025 fuse block (pending availability on short notice so this might get subbed) to simplify the accessory side wiring. 12V DC cigarette-lighter style plugs are gone for now but might get added back later as this evolves. For now fridge is my main priority.

I am still debating whether or not to put in a battery cutoff switch between the + bus bar and house battery, as well as adding the circuit breaker or a battery cutoff switch. Right now I'm leaning towards not having it because the Anderson plug will be easily within reach for a quick disconnect, and turning off the Orion can be done in the app. Neither is ideal or perfect but my enemy is time and the reality is this may get omitted until later refinements.

Shopping has commenced and I wait impatiently for FedEx/UPS to show up. One item not shown here is a Temco TH0006 crimper and I might be the most excited just for that new tool. Another big order (for me at least) with Curent Connected; shout-out to Jarrett for great customer service on the phone. Orion coming from Battle Born because they had inventory and good price. Cooler will arrive first and get tested on AC at home to verify power draw via an old Kill-a-watt I have laying around.

My current motto for the build: "With a little reckless spending and mental distress, you too can pull this off in about a weeks time!"

View attachment 111038

Good changes and recommendations from some of the best members of DIY Solar. PS SOK batteries are excellent - I have had zero issues with my 12v and also with my 24v systems.

 

[B-ManFX4]

@amartin - If you rotate your busbars 90° you can re-shape them to look like they do now but the text orientation will match the rest of the drawing.

Nice work - having a clear drawing really helps with configuration, troubleshooting and expansion planning.

 

[amartin]

@amartin - If you rotate your busbars 90° you can re-shape them to look like they do now but the text orientation will match the rest of the drawing.

Nice work - having a clear drawing really helps with configuration, troubleshooting and expansion planning.

Thanks for the tip, I couldn't figure out how to re-orient the text in Visio and felt like I was going crazy. I'll change that on the next drawing rev for better readability. And yes definitely having good documentation is invaluable, I couldn't agree more!

Parts are starting to arrive daily now and I am getting super busy with the actual build. The downside is I have no time to share progress updates until I get back from the trip later in October. It's going to move very quickly - deadline for install is 9/22 and then I'm on the road for 3+ weeks which will be an excellent real-world stress test. I already feel the stress but it will be worth it when I can power my fridge offgrid for days/weeks at a time without worry of draining my starter battery. To be continued!

 

[amartin]

This might be a really dumb question, but can I run the GND cable from the Orion-Tr to the negative bus bar, then run a cable from negative bus to chassis ground? As opposed to my drawing where I’m running two separate cables (and ultimately using the same chassis bolt for both anyways)?

Again apologies if that’s a really dumb question. I’m starting to do the real-world mockup and in my head it seems too smart and easy so I get the feeling it’s wrong. I just can’t reason out why it would be any different…

 

[FilterGuy]

This might be a really dumb question,

There are no dumb questions..... We all had to learn and asking questions is a great way to learn. It is only dumb if you don't ask.

can I run the GND cable from the Orion-Tr to the negative bus bar, then run a cable from negative bus to chassis ground? As opposed to my drawing where I’m running two separate cables (and ultimately using the same chassis bolt for both anyways)?

Yes, that is fine. In fact, it is my preferred way of wiring things.... Everything gets wired to a central bus-bar.

Again apologies if that’s a really dumb question. I’m starting to do the real-world mockup and in my head it seems too smart and easy so I get the feeling it’s wrong. I just can’t reason out why it would be any different…

Some day I will build a project exactly as I planned it, but given my track record that is a long way off. Once the crimping and bolting begins, I always find problems with the plan or better solutions than what I had planned.

 

[amartin]

There are no dumb questions..... We all had to learn and asking questions is a great way to learn. It is only dumb if you don't ask.



Yes, that is fine. In fact, it is my preferred way of wiring things.... Everything gets wired to a central bus-bar.


Some day I will build a project exactly as I planned it, but given my track record that is a long way off. Once the crimping and bolting begins, I always find problems with the plan or better solutions than what I had planned.

Awesome thanks! And yeah there’s always room for revisions. I already see so many things wrong with my plan due to space constraints but it’s going in anyways because papa needs cold beer on the road trip. Next revision will be a massive improvement because I’m basically a caveman rubbing sticks together at this stage. Mark 1 build should be mostly fabri-cobbled by Sunday.

 

[Steve Fractals]

Looks ok to me

Thanks for the links, very useful.

 

[amartin]

Wanted to come back and say thanks again to everyone who helped me out. Might do a write-up later if I get time. Anyways, here's a photo of the first revision - lots of last-minute design changes on my rear seat delete platform due to the size/dimensions not being what I thought, but functionality was flawless. I ran this for 2+ weeks and ~2,300 miles without a hiccup. Wiring isn't pretty in this shot but cable management was added later (I just didn't take a picture because it was like 11pm by that point).

Parts sourced from a combination of Current Connected, Battle Born, Powerwerx, Iceco, and my local hardware stores.

If anyone reads this in the future, here are my thoughts:

1. DO NOT DECIDE TO BUILD SOMETHING LIKE THIS TWO DAYS BEFORE YOU LEAVE ON A TRIP.
2. See number 1 again.
3. If all you are running is a fridge, a 206Ah battery is unneccessary overkill, especially if you will be driving to recharge it or have solar.
4. If you will be running other loads and won't be driving around much, 206Ah might be the ticket but do math on the loads.
5. The Victron Orion-TR DCDC charger works great but takes up a fair bit of room due to cooling. I will likely change it out in the future because it's not suited for this small of a space, but if you have more room like a van/RV then it's a great choice.