Odd Issue in Renogy System

[VermontOwl]

I just looked and I can’t find it in the app either.

You can ask in “Community”, which is located at the tab at the bottom of the app screen.

 

[Tomthumb62]

How do I get to "USER" mode? The manual is not helping in this regard. I mean, it tells me to access this by using the DC Home app, but on the app it has no such function or option, or maybe the place to change battery settings is very hard to find.

At least on my Rover 30A, the User settings are accessed not through an app, but directly on the device menus. I forget the sequence of button presses to get there, but it’s in the owners manual. I don’t have the Bluetooth module so can’t comment there but I can program the charge profile in User mode.

 

[Tomthumb62]

How do I get to "USER" mode? The manual is not helping in this regard. I mean, it tells me to access this by using the DC Home app, but on the app it has no such function or option, or maybe the place to change battery settings is very hard to find.

Page 17 of this document tells you how to get to User mode and how to program the settings:

https://www.renogy.com/template/files/Manuals/Rover%20203040%20Manual.pdf

Whatever you do, for lithium, make sure you set the Equalization voltage to no higher than 14.6v. Or set it to whatever your boost or float voltage is. The default setting is way too high for lithium. Lithium doesn’t need equalization but since there’s not a way to turn it off on the Rover, setting the voltage to something lithium likes will work.

 

[germainJpetrov]

Page 17 of this document tells you how to get to User mode and how to program the settings:

https://www.renogy.com/template/files/Manuals/Rover%20203040%20Manual.pdf

Whatever you do, for lithium, make sure you set the Equalization voltage to no higher than 14.6v. Or set it to whatever your boost or float voltage is. The default setting is way too high for lithium. Lithium doesn’t need equalization but since there’s not a way to turn it off on the Rover, setting the voltage to something lithium likes will work.

This is weird. The manual for my Rover is completely different. And in this manual it actually doesn't list an equalization voltage setting for LFP batteries, and I am assuming thats because LFP batteries automatically balance? Even in the manual for my battery it hardly even mentions balancing and equalization other than stating how the on-board balancing system operates.
I will try using the instructions in the link you provided though, hopefully I can achieve something. This has been driving me nuts and I am starting to research other LFP battery brands to go with. This has been a weird issue and apparently not even Renogy understands whats going on. They are just giving me verbatim excerpts from the manual in emails.

 

[Tomthumb62]

This is weird. The manual for my Rover is completely different. And in this manual it actually doesn't list an equalization voltage setting for LFP batteries, and I am assuming thats because LFP batteries automatically balance? Even in the manual for my battery it hardly even mentions balancing and equalization other than stating how the on-board balancing system operates.
I will try using the instructions in the link you provided though, hopefully I can achieve something. This has been driving me nuts and I am starting to research other LFP battery brands to go with. This has been a weird issue and apparently not even Renogy understands whats going on. They are just giving me verbatim excerpts from the manual in emails.

LFP don’t require equalization, it’sa good thing that Renogy removed it for your model. You must have a newer version than I have.

 

[germainJpetrov]

LFP don’t require equalization, it’sa good thing that Renogy removed it for your model. You must have a newer version than I have.

So I finally found the USER mode. Didn't realize that its in one of the option for programming the battery chemistry type. The manual doesn't explain this, like its hidden... So I took your advice and changed the equalization to no higher than 14.6v. Other than that I don't know what else to change, or if any of it will help solve this issue. Yesterday, my battery monitor reported roughly 170ah at 85%, while the DC Home app reports my battery capacity at 40%. I would use the BT app but it's not giving me any parameters at all, it just shows that it connected to the battery.

 

[Renogy Solar]

How do I get to "USER" mode? The manual is not helping in this regard. I mean, it tells me to access this by using the DC Home app, but on the app it has no such function or option, or maybe the place to change battery settings is very hard to find.

Press and hold the "→" button on the controller to observe the icon at the bottom of the LCD screen of the controller when it flashes, it means entering the setting interface, then adjust the battery type to USER by using the up and down buttons, it means entering the USER mode

 

[Tomthumb62]

So I finally found the USER mode. Didn't realize that its in one of the option for programming the battery chemistry type. The manual doesn't explain this, like its hidden... So I took your advice and changed the equalization to no higher than 14.6v. Other than that I don't know what else to change, or if any of it will help solve this issue. Yesterday, my battery monitor reported roughly 170ah at 85%, while the DC Home app reports my battery capacity at 40%. I would use the BT app but it's not giving me any parameters at all, it just shows that it connected to the battery.

If your battery monitor is a true shunt, then trust that over the Bluetooth reading.

 

[germainJpetrov]

If your battery monitor is a true shunt, then trust that over the Bluetooth reading.

That's what I was figuring. But my concern is that maybe the battery is actually behaving according to it's internal BT monitoring even though they are incorrect, which would mean its acting like a 150ah batt instead of the 200ah its supposed to be. Its just a theory. I am currently communicating with Renogy about warranty service.

 

[Tomthumb62]

That's what I was figuring. But my concern is that maybe the battery is actually behaving according to it's internal BT monitoring even though they are incorrect, which would mean its acting like a 150ah batt instead of the 200ah its supposed to be. Its just a theory. I am currently communicating with Renogy about warranty service.

The best way to measure your battery capacity is to drain it until the BMS cuts off, then charge it back up to full, using your shunt monitor to measure how many amp hours are put back into the battery.

My experience with Renogy’s warranty service has been hit or miss. They usually eventually would come through, but it was a headache to deal with. I’m slowly replacing my Renogy equipment with better stuff like Victron. I will never buy their AGM batteries again though, they were just really cheap batteries that couldn’t hold a charge and we had four of them die within two years and another that arrived leaking battery acid.

 

[mikefitz]

Me again, Renogy admit that the solar charge controller and the battery BMS may not be reporting the SOC correctly .
As I stated in an earlier post , if your battery is charging to over 14.0 volts before charging terminates, its full. If the battery, after a rest, reads over 13.4 volts, its full.
If you are modifying settings in the Rover, charge, boost, and equalisation , volts should not exceed 14.4 volts. Due to possible cell inbalance, 14.2 volts may give better charging.

Mike

 

[germainJpetrov]

The best way to measure your battery capacity is to drain it until the BMS cuts off, then charge it back up to full, using your shunt monitor to measure how many amp hours are put back into the battery.

My experience with Renogy’s warranty service has been hit or miss. They usually eventually would come through, but it was a headache to deal with. I’m slowly replacing my Renogy equipment with better stuff like Victron. I will never buy their AGM batteries again though, they were just really cheap batteries that couldn’t hold a charge and we had four of them die within two years and another that arrived leaking battery acid.

I might have to do that. Capacity on the monitor and CC are reading 100% (I know CC capacity is only voltage based) with both showing voltages of 13.4, and the monitor is indicating that it is still charging even though it shows cap at 100%. This makes me think that the battery and the other components are not agreeing....

I don't know what the hell is going on anymore. But yeah, I'm pretty sure I am done with Renogy at this point. I read their warranty policy and I am within the 3-year period, so I don't what would be stopping warranty service, but I know any company will do what they can not to go that route.

 

[germainJpetrov]

Me again, Renogy admit that the solar charge controller and the battery BMS may not be reporting the SOC correctly .
As I stated in an earlier post , if your battery is charging to over 14.0 volts before charging terminates, its full. If the battery, after a rest, reads over 13.4 volts, its full.
If you are modifying settings in the Rover, charge, boost, and equalisation , volts should not exceed 14.4 volts. Due to possible cell inbalance, 14.2 volts may give better charging.

Mike

Hey, Mike. Thanks for checking in.


If you look at my last reply to tomthumb62, my concern now is that as of today the batt monitor and CC are reporting full SOC, but they have been showing a voltage of 13.4 volts, and the batt monitor is still saying that its receiving a charge. I just checked it now, which must mean that its been sitting at 13.4 volts since yesterday. And yesterday I did go ahead and changed the equalization on the CC to less than 14.6v, even though the Renogy 12v 200ah Smart Battery auto balances.

As I mentioned earlier, I think i've about had it at this point. Renogy did contact me yesterday and they brought up possibly using the warranty, although I wish I could just get a refund and go with a different battery provider.

 

[Tomthumb62]

and the monitor is indicating that it is still charging even though it shows cap at 100%.

How many amps did it say it was still charging at?

Which battery monitor do you have anyways?

Renogy was good with their warranty on three of the 5 AGM batteries we got from them, but you had to “jump through the hoops” to get them to do so, which included taking the batteries to a chain auto parts store for them to test them with their fancy tester.

I’m not so sure yet that your Renogy lithium battery is the problem. It sounds like part of the problem is you’re getting confused and frustrated by the different readings you’re getting from different devices. Ignore them all except for the shunt. The shunt will be the most accurate.

To expand on what Mike said, I’ve heard from others that the Renogy charge controllers are usually off by 0.2V. Meaning that if you set it to charge at 14.6V, it’s actually charging at 14.8V, which is too high for lifepo4. I haven’t yet hooked up our Rover 30A to our new lithium battery to confirm this but I’m going to be setting at 14.2V to be sure.

 

[mikefitz]

The equalisation setting on the Rover is not needed for lithium and should not be used. If using a battery mode that has such a setting, it needs disabled or set to the same as the charge, boost, voltage.

It's quite possible the Renogy battery monitor is still showing charging when the volts are displayed at 13.4.

To support what Tomthumb suggested, ignore readings from the battery BMS and the Rover charge controller.

The readings from the Renogy battery monitor for voltage and current can be considered accurate. There is still some doubt regarding the SOC reading. However the readings of 170 and 85% seem spot on
Renogy batteries under charge, may shutdown the charge path if cell overvolts are detected. This will show on the battery monitor as no or very low charge current. This is a common occurrence in many lithium batteries, not just Renogy .
The solution is to lower the charge, boost volts, to a lower value that the Rover default for lithium. By monitoring the charge current a suitable voltage can be identified, any voltage in the range 13.8 to 14.4 can be used. Trial and error testing, gradually reducing the voltage until the battery shutdown under charge does not occur.
As the battery is used, better balance will occur.

In conclusion, I don't think you have major battery issues and due to the conflicting data provided by the Renogy units you have lost confidence in the system.
In a number of responses to Renogy issues, Renogy technical have stated, a) the data reporting from products regarding SOC may not be correct, b) charge, boost, voltage may need to be lower , down to 13.8 volts to allow battery charging.

Mike

 

[germainJpetrov]

How many amps did it say it was still charging at?

Which battery monitor do you have anyways?

Renogy was good with their warranty on three of the 5 AGM batteries we got from them, but you had to “jump through the hoops” to get them to do so, which included taking the batteries to a chain auto parts store for them to test them with their fancy tester.

I’m not so sure yet that your Renogy lithium battery is the problem. It sounds like part of the problem is you’re getting confused and frustrated by the different readings you’re getting from different devices. Ignore them all except for the shunt. The shunt will be the most accurate.

To expand on what Mike said, I’ve heard from others that the Renogy charge controllers are usually off by 0.2V. Meaning that if you set it to charge at 14.6V, it’s actually charging at 14.8V, which is too high for lifepo4. I haven’t yet hooked up our Rover 30A to our new lithium battery to confirm this but I’m going to be setting at 14.2V to be sure.

The battery monitor I have is Renogy's RBM500.
It could be that the CC needs specific programming.
Per the CC manual it shows the programming parameters to be Battery Type (LI), System Voltage (12v), Equalization Voltage, Boost Voltage, Over-Discharge Voltage, Over-Discharge Return Voltage, and Float Voltage.

The current settings I have are as follows:
Equalization V: 13.8
Boost: 14.4v
Float: 13.8v
Over-Discharge Return V: 12.6v
Over-Discharge V: 11.1v

I've attached pics from the manual of the CC and battery so y'all can see what I am looking at.
So, what parameter am I adjusting specifically? You guys are saying adjust the charge voltage, but for this CC would that mean adjusting the Boost Voltage parameter?
Should I be inputting parameters according to the values given in the battery's manual (see pics)? Such as "Battery Undervoltage" corresponding to "Over-Discharge Voltage" and "Over-Discharge Return Voltage" on the CC, as well as "Charge Voltage" on the battery specifications corresponding to "Boost Voltage" on the CC which is already set to the battery's specified value.
I am wondering if its just verbiage throwing me off...


Thank you guys for being patient and helping me out. My knowledge is only in wiring these systems up, outside of that I'm an amateur (obviously).

 

[mikefitz]

Battery management, BMS, settings are to protect the battery from abnormal conditions, charging values are a seperate issue.
The only settings that relate to charging are boost and float, ( ignore equalise for lithium). Boost Return volts determine when charging will resume to boost volts target. Boost duration holds the voltage constant for a time once boost volts has been reached.
Note that with the default lithium setting on the Rover there is no float setting, and no boost duration.
All other settings for the charge controler relate to the load output or warnings.

When the charger wakes up in the morning it puts as much energy from the solar panels as possible using the maximum power process, MPPT, until the battery volts reach the 'boost' volts level. You can regard the boost voltage as a kind of 'target' the controller strives to reach.
With lithium batteries and low charge currents, once the battery exceeds 14.0 volts under charge its full or almost fully charged.

With the Renogy charger, using the default lithium setting , on reaching the boost voltage it stops charging.

Using alternative settings there will be values for boost duration and float voltage. Boost duration is where the controler holds the voltage constant at boost volts level once the target boost volts has been reached.
Once boost duration is completed the voltage falls to float volts. For lithium batteries, 13.4 or13.5 volts is used.
If the voltage falls below 13.2 volts, ( boost return volts), for any of the preset modes, the charger puts into the battery as much power as possible untill the battery voltage reaches the boost target voltage .

The settings I gave for the battery monitor in post #5 are OK and should give good results. The only possible issue is if the battery , under charge, does not exceed the 'full V' voltage of 14 volts.( reaching 'full V' causes the monitor to sync to 100%)

As previously discussed, due to battery slight cell inbalance and inacurate calibration of the charger, 14.4 charge, boost volts, may cause battery BMS to enter protection mode. Lowering the charge voltage, boost voltage, may be needed.

Mike

 

[germainJpetrov]

Battery management, BMS, settings are to protect the battery from abnormal conditions, charging values are a seperate issue.
The only settings that relate to charging are boost and float, ( ignore equalise for lithium). Boost Return volts determine when charging will resume to boost volts target. Boost duration holds the voltage constant for a time once boost volts has been reached.
Note that with the default lithium setting on the Rover there is no float setting, and no boost duration.
All other settings for the charge controler relate to the load output or warnings.

When the charger wakes up in the morning it puts as much energy from the solar panels as possible using the maximum power process, MPPT, until the battery volts reach the 'boost' volts level. You can regard the boost voltage as a kind of 'target' the controller strives to reach.
With lithium batteries and low charge currents, once the battery exceeds 14.0 volts under charge its full or almost fully charged.

With the Renogy charger, using the default lithium setting , on reaching the boost voltage it stops charging.

Using alternative settings there will be values for boost duration and float voltage. Boost duration is where the controler holds the voltage constant at boost volts level once the target boost volts has been reached.
Once boost duration is completed the voltage falls to float volts. For lithium batteries, 13.4 or13.5 volts is used.
If the voltage falls below 13.2 volts, ( boost return volts), for any of the preset modes, the charger puts into the battery as much power as possible untill the battery voltage reaches the boost target voltage .

The settings I gave for the battery monitor in post #5 are OK and should give good results. The only possible issue is if the battery , under charge, does not exceed the 'full V' voltage of 14 volts.( reaching 'full V' causes the monitor to sync to 100%)

As previously discussed, due to battery slight cell inbalance and inacurate calibration of the charger, 14.4 charge, boost volts, may cause battery BMS to enter protection mode. Lowering the charge voltage, boost voltage, may be needed.

Mike

Okay, I think I am beginning to understand. I'll drop the boost volts down, as well as the float, and go from there. The battery monitor settings we discussed I have already put into place.

Something to take note of too perhaps is that my solar array is under a lot of shade all the time. I have a 400 watt solar array, but the max I've seen come in is just over 100 watts and that was only for maybe 30 minutes. Soon I will be constructing a solar panel rack that's mobile so I can somewhat chase the sun. That's why charging takes so long on my end. Lots of trees...

 

[germainJpetrov]

Just an update.

So voltage reading have been consistent. I tried lowering the boost voltage two different times. So far the only results I've seen is that the batt capacity reading on this app is getting lower, even though the volts read over 14.0. And again, the DC Home app has been useless, as it gives me no information.