diy solar

diy solar

Off-grid: illegal in Florida?

Plans are to solar/battery generator a shed to charge all the yard and power tools.
Does any one have info on permits required for melbourne fl?
No back feed to the grid. Panels on shed roof. Maybe put panels on a lean to.
thx
chuck
 
I had to take a break from researching all the rules, regulation, codes and requirements. It was melting my brain.

From what I have learned, you will almost certainly need a few permits. Even if it is just a few panels on the roof of a shed. this is because it is a permanent installation. (And if you really want to try and follow the laws too...)

For the shed, if it is a premade metal shed, you will probably have problems. For the mounting of the panels, you need to show roof loading. This is to show that the roof can support the weight of the panels. If the shed was built with traditional building methods like wood or masonry and has a truss or rafter style roof then you might be able to get somewhere. You just make a little plan-view drawing, show the roof loading in a note on the drawing, show a manual/cut sheet for the mounting brackets you will use, show the cut-sheet and UL/CEC sheet for the panels Show all that to you local permit office and see what happens.

The you need electrical permits for connecting the cable from the panels to a junction box, fuse, breaker, etc. That is pretty easy stuff. You should be able to get a permit as a owner-builder for that as well similar to the above building permit.

Now converting the DC electric from the panels to AC is a fishy area. I 'think' if you stop permitting at the DC point of connection from the panel, just set a little 1000w inverter on a work bench and plug in some tools than no one can really do anything to you. Or you could get an off the shelf battery box/inverter/solar generator backup and just charge it from your panels.

Honesty though, for you situation, just make a non-permanently mounted setup. Maybe just lean the panels up against a wall where you can easily just pick them up and put them away. Or just slap them on the shed and not worry. If then man comes and says to take them down, it is really not much liability to you. Just say "ok" give a thumbs up and take them down.
 
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Here are some other interesting tidbits I have learned.

<Edit - I believe that the 1. statement below is wrong now but I will not change it per the rules of the forum>
1. You are not technically allowed to make your own power in Florida. Duke Energy and FPL have their monopolies on that. If you start to power your living area with solar then you will have to bend the knee to these giants. you will have to connect your solar to the grid and sell excess back to them. And they pay pennies on the dollar form what you pay them. (you are technically not allowed to build and occupy a house that is not connected to the grid either.)

2, You CAN store energy in batteries. There are limitation to where you can mount batteries. (can't put it in a living area or closet of a bedroom). You are limited to 40kwh for a UL listed battery installed within the building envelope (the space under the roof and inside the exterior walls.) You can install up to 80kwh if you are outside on the exterior wall.

3. If your battery is not UL listed then it needs to be an approved repurposed EV battery and be 40kwh or less (have no idea what 'approved repurposed EV battery' really means though). Or you can use your EV car to store energy if the manufacture of the car has some provision to do so. You would have to strictly follow their instructions.
 
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I admit it is contentious and not clear for rules for #1.

I can site an article here: https://www.rt.com/usa/florida-woman-private-utilities-735/
This is an instance where a local jurisdiction was probably abusing the interpretation of International Property Maintenance Code (IPMC)

There is this article: https://compasssolar.com/is-it-illegal-to-go-off-grid-in-florida/
"Florida jurisdiction on both county and city level may pursue civil penalties against residence who go off-grid"

I have come across other articles where utilities require the grid tie to be part of the permit requirements.

I am still trying to navigate what is enforceable and how you can legally defend these regulations.
 
Badfrogg said:
I am still trying to navigate what is enforceable and how you can legally defend these regulations.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with how it works in Florida, but the second article cited above clearly says it is legal to have an Off Grid installation with caveats.
In California, it is part of the building code and is considered a safety issue. To be clear, a utility connection is only required if one is provided. Off grid per se is not illegal, but you do need a building permit in California. You also could be connected but as far as I know you are not required to use it. They still would require a building permit for the additional equipment and circuits. I hardly use the grid in summer but in winter I need it to keep my heat pump working because I do not get enough solar production.
 
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Badfrogg said:
I admit it is contentious and not clear for rules for #1.

I can site an article here: https://www.rt.com/usa/florida-woman-private-utilities-735/
This is an instance where a local jurisdiction was probably abusing the interpretation of International Property Maintenance Code (IPMC)

There is this article: https://compasssolar.com/is-it-illegal-to-go-off-grid-in-florida/
"Florida jurisdiction on both county and city level may pursue civil penalties against residence who go off-grid"

I have come across other articles where utilities require the grid tie to be part of the permit requirements.

I am still trying to navigate what is enforceable and how you can legally defend these regulations.
Click to expand...
First article is the well known Woman who did not pay her sewer or trash bill, collected drinking water off the roof etc. Nothing to do with electricity.
Second is from a solar company......nuff said.
 
I am honestly not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I have been trying to understand all the actual rules so that I can arm myself with knowledge to take to the permitting office in my city.

I don't want to show up ill prepared, be denied, and then become a target for the drive-by code enforcer.
 
I went back down the rabbit hole.

I must concede that I am almost certainly wrong about the statement I made above about being required to connect your solar to the grid. I did find that source again and dug a bit deeper and found that the reporting was poorly researched.

I think the article confused the requirement for a household that is located in a power utilities jurisdiction is mandated to be connected to the service. I still think that requirement is strongly enforceable but there may still be ways around it.

So. it looks like I am wrong, your solar generation is not mandated to be connected to feed back to the grid. But you may still need to pay a minimum fee for a mandated meter on the side of your house with a minimum usage fee (Duke is $30/month).

It is all very messy. and it hurts my head.
 
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Also. My perspective if from living in a large city so I must dig trough A LOT of rules and regulations.

If you live in rural Florida and not in the Utilities jurisdiction then I envy you. It is going to be sooo much simpler.
 
Badfrogg said:
Also. My perspective if from living in a large city so I must dig trough A LOT of rules and regulations.

If you live in rural Florida and not in the Utilities jurisdiction then I envy you. It is going to be sooo much simpler.
Click to expand...
People think I’m crazy when I say I’m glad my nearest power pole is 10 miles away
 
Thanks so much for the reply. Lots to read and take in. I did do some searching but its so confusing. Its a DIY solar generator with 30kw batteries and two 5kw 48v 120v ac inverters. Have 20 300w panels.

we just moved here from Texas and had the set up on the porch. And it really paid off when the 5 day snow storm rolled through the area. We had heat! But the system was never connected to the grid. Didnt run to many lights at night so the neighbors would not have any questions. The solar panels were in the back yard and not seen from the road.
Really cant hide the panels in the current home.
Will do some more looking around on this and figure out something.
Thank you
chuck
 
20 panels. This one big porch and shed. I am guessing the 'shed' is a proper building then?
 
Most of the panels in Texas were attached to the wood fence. Batteries on the porch.

Shed we're looking at here is 12x32. So mount as many as possible on the roof and then build a lean to for the rest.

No AC power will be going to the house unless there's an emergency. Also the shed will be used for very small crypto mining rigs.
Thanks for you reply
chuck
 
Badfrogg said:
I went back down the rabbit hole.

I must concede that I am almost certainly wrong about the statement I made above about being required to connect your solar to the grid. I did find that source again and dug a bit deeper and found that the reporting was poorly researched.

I think the article confused the requirement for a household that is located in a power utilities jurisdiction is mandated to be connected to the service. I still think that requirement is strongly enforceable but there may still be ways around it.

So. it looks like I am wrong, your solar generation is not mandated to be connected to feed back to the grid. But you may still need to pay a minimum fee for a mandated meter on the side of your house with a minimum usage fee (Duke is $30/month).

It is all very messy. and it hurts my head.
Click to expand...
I am in Florida. RURAL part of Suwannee County. My inspector said as long as my house is wired AS IF it was going to be attached to the grid, they would be fine. I have a well and my own septic. I told him not really my problem for the next owner, but he was concerned it would be DC wiring. I laughed and said I was not rich and could not afford that kind of wire, length of runs, etc. So, at least where I am, yes, you can totally be off-grid.
 
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