Off-grid in the city is illegal ?

[Badfrogg]

I am a homeowner in Florida. I started down the road of DIY solar and now find that there is a quagmire of rules and restrictions. What is worse is that I can't seem to verify any truth or facts. If someone says that I am not allowed to do something, that is fine, but I would like to see the laws for myself.

I have been told that I cannot install solar myself and must hire a company. - Can't find the law though.
I have been told that any solar installed on my property must be connected to the grid. - Can't find that law either.
I though I would just go pull a permit, make some drawing, follow some codes, get inspected and all would be good... Not how it is working out though.

Do I need a contractor or a lawyer? Holy smokes!

 

[400bird]

I'm not in Florida, so I don't have any specifically helpful examples. Just some general info.

I believe in some areas you are required to maintain utility connection for certification of occupancy.

Ask about owner builder permit. I've installed solar, Diy battery, and more solar on my home in California with an owner builder permit, no prob.

I don't have an answer on the off-grid, but if they give you a hard time about it, draw the grid into the plan and don't mention off-grid anywhere. You'll need to buy approved/appropriate equipment. My last permit was just for panels and a charge controller to charge the battery I installed on a previous permit. Nothing related to the grid, I drew the grid in and the permit went right through, no prob.

 

[Badfrogg]

My intention was just to move one circuit on my house to a small 5kw solar system. It would not be tied to the grid but the rest of the house would. But a 'solar guy' I talked to said NOPE. He said I must tie it to the grid and I must get the grid tie approval.

Then my other problem is that even if I could get a permit, my 11kwh DIY battery is not UL certified. I guess I have to sell it.

 

[k490]

Is your home in an HOA? They also give you lot of trouble they don't like DIY anything. There are solar companies online that will assist you with producing a plan to submit to the city for a permit. Permitted system is the most legal way of doing it. The city told you only a grid-tie was allowed they should be able to produce the city code that says that. I would not be surprised electric utilities are usually monopolies they don't like competition. Power utilities hate solar takes money out of their pocket's city will do whatever they say when it comes to electrical. I know I work for an electric utility I know what is said in behind closed doors. Not all utilities are like that, but I looked at what is required to grid tie with my employer you need a law degree to figure it out. Probably like that on purpose so your stuck using a contractor who makes $1000 an hour to install it and you end up with 50-year ROI.

I'm looking to do the same my employer charges me a demand charge cost me $100-180 a month I want to take my AC off the grid on a battery and charge it during off peak hours. I don't want to use UL listed batteries the ROI take too long I want to use DIY cell from China I can get for 12 cents a watt delivered.

"Solar Guy" is a solar contractor I doubt he knows what he is talking about with regard to off grid all he does in grid tie systems. He might be confusing grid tie meaning back feeding to the grid getting paid for power sent back into the grid. Off grid system only takes power in you are connecting the inverter to the grid but it's not back-fed. I suspect he means is if you connect an inverter city will require a contract with the utility, they consider any inverter plugged into the grid no matter what it's doing is grid-tied. You should check with the city first see what they say it's up to them really.

 

[Badfrogg]

No HOA, thankfully. One more layer of bureaucracy, no thanks.

Yeah, 'Solar Guy' was really interested in convicting me that I was an idiot and needed a $30k debt instead of an electric bill. I wonder how much debt solar guy has? My house is payed and I have no dept. Strange, I don't fell like an idiot.

 

[fafrd]

My intention was just to move one circuit on my house to a small 5kw solar system. It would not be tied to the grid but the rest of the house would. But a 'solar guy' I talked to said NOPE. He said I must tie it to the grid and I must get the grid tie approval.

Then my other problem is that even if I could get a permit, my 11kwh DIY battery is not UL certified. I guess I have to sell it.

Have you gone down and spoken to your building department face-to-face yet?

That’s what I strongly recommend.

Of course the solar installer is going to tell you you can’t do it yourself - he / she wants work.

Ask your building department whether Owner-Install of a small 12V solar backup system is allowed.

Don’t bring up your DIY battery or the fact you may want higher than 12VDC initially.

If certain things are allowed, you can then suss out any ‘red lines’ in terms of DC voltage, maximum power, etc.

If they tell you ‘no DIY solar under any circumstances’ then you know the installer was right after all…

 

[fafrd]

No HOA, thankfully. One more layer of bureaucracy, no thanks.

Yeah, 'Solar Guy' was really interested in convicting me that I was an idiot and needed a $30k debt instead of an electric bill. I wonder how much debt solar guy has? My house is payed and I have no dept. Strange, I don't fell like an idiot.

You can almost certainly get a portable solar power generator, set it up on your backyard ad run an extension cord into the house to power your fridge…

Beyond that, it all comes down to what your local building department and AHJ allow.

Is there a Forum with solar enthusiasts from your are who can comment on what was allowed and what was not? Perhaps a new thread for Florida-based members here?

 

[Badfrogg]

I've done quite a few things as an owner builder at my property. I know the process of going downtown and talking to 'the man'. But I have always had my ducks in a row beforehand. They love that. But I can't find the dang rules on solar here.

I will just have to hunker down and figure it out. I do feel a little less free today then I did yesterday though. The sun ain't free in the Sunshine State. Who would have guessed...

 

[Badfrogg]

Ah. Just found this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/off-grid-illegal-in-florida.49625/
Not quite my situation but close.

 

[Hedges]

Then my other problem is that even if I could get a permit, my 11kwh DIY battery is not UL certified. I guess I have to sell it.

There are AIO that can be installed without battery, work as GT PV + batteryless backup. SolArk, for instance. New SMA Hybrid Smart Energy, just came out (some details pending.)

Wait until inspector's tail lights disappear from view.
And do NOT burn your house down.

 

[k490]

This is just an example of one company who can generate set of plans for the permit. You could use place like this to do 90% of the work then modify as needed. Not sure what they mean for free there are several online I have played around with these online sites they have every state in them.

Cities like to see some kind of professional plans seems to pacify them even if they really don't know much about what you're doing.

 

[Mattb4]

Sadly there are places that are so used to having a bureaucracy that requires everyone to get approval before attempting anything. Regulations may not even exist but some petty official expects to be able to weigh in and demand compliance. Sounds like you live in such an area. Washington State where I was born is like that. City and County building and Planning departments, State departments and various others like Forestry commissions meant that private property was a myth. I was so trained into thinking I had to request permission it was a bit of a shock when I moved to where I live now where there is none of that.

After I moved here I called up my local County to see if I needed a building permit. The County clerk acted like she was surprised that anyone would even ask such a question as she told me there was no building or inspection departments. If I lived in the city though there could be one.

 

[JoeHam]

I have, I should say I have a friend who has, taken a number of circuits in my house and moved them to a “critical loads” sub-panel which is powered by solar charged batteries via an inverter. The township here didn’t show any interest in it and I didn’t pursue it with them further.

The inverter has backup power from the grid which is rarely used in the summer, more in the winter. The inverter is just another appliance plugged into the grid AFAIK.

At another property, a boat house with a boat lift, it is completely off grid and I did pull permits and have inspections for the setup. All of this project was DIY in a nearby small town in Ohio.

 

[littleharbor2]

If you do add off grid solar, keep it away from your grid tied circuit breaker panel and know that your home insurance can use it as a reason to deny any claim in the event of a fire.

 

[ungrounded]

Well ,I think as a homeowner it's up to you to decide if you want to be on the grid or not. Besides it's easy enough to separate the installation if need be.

 

[Quattrohead]

You absolutely can go partially or fully off grid in Florida.
As per the thread linked, a few of us here have done so or in my case still building.
But I was running just my AC compressor via solar panels laid around in my back yard when FPL were upgrading the lines to underground, and nothing was ever said to me about the lash up I had.
Solar sales people are the worst, tell them to eff off.

 

[ungrounded]

You absolutely can go partially or fully off grid in Florida.
As per the thread linked, a few of us here have done so or in my case still building.
But I was running just my AC compressor via solar panels laid around in my back yard when FPL were upgrading the lines to underground, and nothing was ever said to me about the lash up I had.
Solar sales people are the worst, tell them to eff off.

That's what I do. Run the ac off of solar saves about $300 a month.

 

[k490]

Sadly there are places that are so used to having a bureaucracy that requires everyone to get approval before attempting anything. Regulations may not even exist but some petty official expects to be able to weigh in and demand compliance. Sounds like you live in such an area. Washington State where I was born is like that. City and County building and Planning departments, State departments and various others like Forestry commissions meant that private property was a myth. I was so trained into thinking I had to request permission it was a bit of a shock when I moved to where I live now where there is none of that.

After I moved here I called up my local County to see if I needed a building permit. The County clerk acted like she was surprised that anyone would even ask such a question as she told me there was no building or inspection departments. If I lived in the city though there could be one.

I have always dreamed of living somewhere like that. I have heard of those places in NM, or TX were mostly in desert areas 25 miles from the nearest store. I figured if your land was big enough 100 acre or more who ever going to complain or even see what you're doing. Most of the problems with building codes starts with a neighbor calling in a complaint. The downside of being that off grid is if you need emergency medical care going to take a while. Now that I'm older I have the money, but my health isn't so good anymore.

Here is a guy running his AC unit off grid he is in Phoenix. He says his ROI is almost paid for although I wonder about that. I have run the numbers in a hot climate daily KWH can go up to 130KWH per day.

 

[SilverbackMP]

I have always dreamed of living somewhere like that. I have heard of those places in NM, or TX were mostly in desert areas 25 miles from the nearest store. I figured if your land was big enough 100 acre or more who ever going to complain or even see what you're doing. Most of the problems with building codes starts with a neighbor calling in a complaint. The downside of being that off grid is if you need emergency medical care going to take a while. Now that I'm older I have the money, but my health isn't so good anymore.

Here is a guy running his AC unit off grid he is in Phoenix. He says his ROI is almost paid for although I wonder about that. I have run the numbers in a hot climate daily KWH can go up to 130KWH per day.

No need to live in Afghanistan-lite. I don’t have to ask to do shit in Missouri other than submit $50 and a two page septic plan (and that’s relatively new; probably tied to some federal bullshit program). We haven’t even adopted the NEC statewide. It’s not that we are on an older version, we haven’t adopted it period (urban counties and cities have though).

 

[watchdoc]

Just pull a permit for a generator transfer switch and hook your solar up afterwards. Just call it a solar generator. Are you putting panels on the house?

I live in Pitt county, NC and we have one of the least "solar friendly" building departments and utilities in the state but they really don't care if you install a generator transfer switch. Then just use a solar generator.

5kw of solar panels tends to draw attention though. You mentioned just "One circuit". 5kw seems like overkill for one circuit. What are you trying to run?