Off-grid in the city is illegal ?

[Badfrogg]

I made the switch from central AC to three mini-split systems. two are 9,000btu and one is 12,000btu. One of the 9,000btu units is for the second bedroom/bath and I don't run it unless I have guests. Best part is I can easily run these on a small gas generator. The 12k and 9k together at full speed pull just under 2000w and there is no startup surge.

 

[Samsonite801]

I am working it out now. I spent the weekend reading the Florida Building Code. I still have a long way to go still. I still haven't found the ordinances and regulations from the city yet. I know there are still prohibitions mandated from the power utility and their army of lobbyist. I will be working on it though. They want to keep me in the dark but I will acquire the knowledge.

I figured out that in my jurisdiction (Juab Co, Utah), the rules they have apply to the house only, when solar panels and inverters/batteries are in/on the house structure (since it requires a building permit).

Outbuildings don't require building permits here, so solution is to put all equipment in/on the outbuilding, solar panel ground mounts and some solar panels on roof of outbuilding, and run the AC power to the house, and then only normal electrical code rules apply same like for any house.

 

[Badfrogg]

The other good thing about multiple mini-splits is that if one breaks down I still have two running so I don't have to panic.

 

[Samsonite801]

The other good thing about multiple mini-splits is that if one breaks down I still have two running so I don't have to panic.

Great plan, in the datacenter world, they call it 'redundancy, always multiple paths, no single point of failure'...

Always rather fix the degraded service problem on a Monday, instead of a Saturday night...

 

[A Boss]

In Texas off grid is legal without permit up until the transfer switch. However that switch tied in makes the whole project necessary for an electrical permit and following inspection. As a homeowner there is a way to pull your own plumbing permit I know for sure and would also assume there is a way to pull electrical permit(not entirely sure). As a plumber in Texas I know many guys who pulled there own permit and the inspectors beat them up so bad that it wasn't worth it. I would suggest if its similar in Florida to do all the work of installation following cod leave the transfer switch undone pay a responsible electrician to do the transfer switch and inspect the rest as necessary and pull a permit. Just be aware anything you have done not code will need to be done to get thru inspection by the guy who pulled the permit.

 

[k490]

That is a lot, and while days are longer, high temperatures reduce production and increase demand.
The most I've ever observed was just over 100 kWh/day, and that was a cool spring day.

If you get 6 hours effective sun, need about 25kW of inverter and 25kW (PTC or NOCT) of PV.
Two arrays tilted to about 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM summer sun, wired in parallel, could be better with flattened power curve. Then maybe 15kW or 20kW of inverter would effectively utilize the production



Consider a PV-direct A/C, hopefully designed to consume 100% of available PV. Have that on a thermostat set lower than your grid-powered central unit. That would use all available PV for cooling, only draw from grid when that is insufficient.

This PV direct mini-split might do it:

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Air Conditioner Heat Pump AC/DC | 12000 BTU | SEER2 22 | Plug-N-Cool Do-It-Yourself Installation

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

I'd like to boost efficiency of an AC by dumping heat to water instead of hot ambient air. Maybe a mist would help cool condenser, or maybe that would be a problem for corrosion or minerals - I would think the HVAC guys here have seen it tried. My A/C has a long copper tube from outside condenser to inside evaporator. I'd like to put a water jacket around that and circulate to pool.

Are you in Phoenix area? July is always 110F plus this year we were over 115F for several days few days we almost hit 120F here. The day we hit 119 the AC was set at 78F it ran for hours nonstop.

I have a thread on my situation over here we can continue the discussion.

 

[Badfrogg]

I have had no problem pulling owner builder permits here in Florida. I have done a whole metal roof replacement, entire pluming replacement including sewer all the way out to the street and I did electrical panel upgrade with a generator transfer switch. It is very easy to do all of those things. You just make a drawing, show the certifications of the materials you are using and have the manuals for installation from the manufacture.

But solar is not so clear. There is some funny business going on.

 

[Rosstafarian]

I'm in AZ just got my electric bill $530 hit me an extra $80 adjuster fee for using too much overall power I decreased the on peak and shifted it to my off peak. I'm definitely building an off-grid system now. I found a supplier I can trust in China 280AH cells $80 each brings the ROI down enough it's worth it. I'm not pulling a permit either going to off load my AC unit, Stove, and electric dryer. That is majority of my monthly bill I have enough room on the back patio for 20 - 500-watt panels. If I pull a permit, they require me to get a contract with my utility they put all these restriction on you can't install a system bigger then 15KW for 200-amp panel.

APS is increasing 22-25% this December. Crooks!

 

[Mark-]

In Texas off grid is legal without permit up until the transfer switch. However that switch tied in makes the whole project necessary for an electrical permit and following inspection.

In Texas...not so sure. I live way out in the country, no city, town or municipality has jurisdiction. Can you provide a link to the relevant "permit" statue that applies to Texas. Thanks.

 

[A Boss]

In Texas...not so sure. I live way out in the country, no city, town or municipality has jurisdiction. Can you provide a link to the relevant "permit" statue that applies to Texas. Thanks.

The electrical code is similar to plumbing code but as far as pointing you electrically to code you would need an electrician. I have entertained the idea of building solar systems in Texas and consulted many master electricians. Plumbing would be to consult sunset act which governs plumbing in Texas and probably find it very specifically laid out under the general provisions section. However because rural is so vast and the plumbing industry is so defunct in Texas the codes are basically unenforced. I would assume it is similar for electrical industry.

 

[Supervstech]

This month July through August is always the highest usage I'm around 150 KWH a day. Duct work is sealed between flat roof and ceiling so it would mean lot of work to re-seal any duct work. I agree I would need a full solar permitted and contracted system if I wanted to hybrid grid tie and limit the feedback at that point might as well sell back in the winter. I could just start out with offloading the AC during the summer months then in the winter we don't use the heater at all even if it gets into the 20F range we like it cold. Probably why the AC is using so much energy we live in the wrong state but can't leave now until I retire. In the winter I would want to use the power for something else like pool pump, air compressor, stove. Electric stove pulls 4500 watts of power oven is in use. We do dry cloths outside we use off peak for drying but now off peak doesn't mean as much as it used to.

I have a hot water heat pump summertime I set it to 100% heat pump barely uses any power because the garage is so hot goes from 80-140F in 12-13 minutes. It's using about 1.5KWH a day in summer month in winter like January it gets up to 15-18 kwh a day. Disregard that temp to right saying average temp was 102F it reached 116F on 7/22.

Ok, the ABSOLUTE BEST INVESTMENT you can make in your home is to reduce thw load required to heat and cool it.
If you have attic ductwork, either replace it with modernR8 insulated sealed ductwork, or bring the attic into conditioned a
Space and seal that off.
Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.
Couple with a radiant reflection barrier, and the hvac load is cut by 30% or more.

I agree with others go to home depot, get a 6 circuit transfer switch and a generator hookup, get it permitted, and bobs your uncle, easy transfer to "generator" supply power.

DO NOT MOUNT PANELS ON THE ROOF OF YOUR HOME,unless you get them permitted as well...
But if a minibarn type shed is allowed, nothing g says you can't place them on there.

 

[Supervstech]

That is a lot, and while days are longer, high temperatures reduce production and increase demand.
The most I've ever observed was just over 100 kWh/day, and that was a cool spring day.

If you get 6 hours effective sun, need about 25kW of inverter and 25kW (PTC or NOCT) of PV.
Two arrays tilted to about 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM summer sun, wired in parallel, could be better with flattened power curve. Then maybe 15kW or 20kW of inverter would effectively utilize the production



Consider a PV-direct A/C, hopefully designed to consume 100% of available PV. Have that on a thermostat set lower than your grid-powered central unit. That would use all available PV for cooling, only draw from grid when that is insufficient.

This PV direct mini-split might do it:

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Air Conditioner Heat Pump AC/DC | 12000 BTU | SEER2 22 | Plug-N-Cool Do-It-Yourself Installation

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

I'd like to boost efficiency of an AC by dumping heat to water instead of hot ambient air. Maybe a mist would help cool condenser, or maybe that would be a problem for corrosion or minerals - I would think the HVAC guys here have seen it tried. My A/C has a long copper tube from outside condenser to inside evaporator. I'd like to put a water jacket around that and circulate to pool.

Search for desuperheater plenty of them for sale.
You can make your own, but it's not as easy as you think,and the refrigerant needs to be carefully adjusted for the added subcool added to the system.
A TXV or EXV system is needed with them to prevent slugging the compressor with liquid refrigerant.

They help both heating and cooling loads... sort of a poor man's geothermal.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

 

[Supervstech]

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

Certainly.
Reducing the attic heat buildup and reflecting the solar gain away from the roof will drastically reduce the energy bill.
And thw thermal insulation and attic sealing will better hold in winter heat.

A similar improvement is Gaines by moving the floor insulation to the perimeter of the crawlspace and sealing the earth with a pair of 12 mil liners.

 

[Supervstech]

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

I find it amazing all the ads touting window replacements as the end all be all energy saver in a home.

I perform Manual J load calculation all the time, and single pane windows with a storm window are nearly the same energy wise...
Barely any difference in the calculation...

Only way new windows will improve your energy usage is if they are missing panes...

 

[k490]

Ok, the ABSOLUTE BEST INVESTMENT you can make in your home is to reduce thw load required to heat and cool it.
If you have attic ductwork, either replace it with modernR8 insulated sealed ductwork, or bring the attic into conditioned a
Space and seal that off.
Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.
Couple with a radiant reflection barrier, and the hvac load is cut by 30% or more.

I agree with others go to home depot, get a 6 circuit transfer switch and a generator hookup, get it permitted, and bobs your uncle, easy transfer to "generator" supply power.

DO NOT MOUNT PANELS ON THE ROOF OF YOUR HOME,unless you get them permitted as well...
But if a minibarn type shed is allowed, nothing g says you can't place them on there.

My home has no attic because it has a flat roof. I do have a foam roof that does help with head has some R factor. Lot of homes in Arizona have no attic type of architecture.

 

[Supervstech]

Yup, for a flat roof design, adding a reflective coating to the roofing, and foaming the hell out of the deck sheeting is the best you can do.

 

[Supervstech]

I lived in Tucson for a year (go Trojans class of 85) and remember the flat roofs all over.
Adobe is far superior...
But uncommon.

Similar to the home design in Iran when I lived there... barf paru beconan

 

[Mark-]

find it very specifically laid out under the general provisions section

I looked some time ago and all I could find for the "State", specifically said NEC requirements are delegated to "municipalities" and new NEC codes were automatically adopted, when released, every two years. Perhaps I read it wrong. Or other sources exist I could not find.

 

[k490]

I lived in Tucson for a year (go Trojans class of 85) and remember the flat roofs all over.
Adobe is far superior...
But uncommon.

Similar to the home design in Iran when I lived there... barf paru beconan

I would never buy a flat roof house again just a PITA. I agree with windows we held out on the old 1976 single pain until last year. Didn't really change the energy usage. I think it made difference where the sun was right on the window you could feel how hot the glass was. One nice thing I did like about new windows was cut down the noise by a big factor going to double pane. Have a neighbor who likes to have loud parties when I close up the windows can hardly hear them.